How To Handle a "No Drones Allowed" Claim

[Auggie]

So I flew my second session ever from a city recreational park, on a weekend where the large football-size playing field had widely dispersed groups of people enjoying the beautiful day.

It's on a tall hilltop with a walking track going around the playing field:



I went right to the edge of the field and performed my flight ops out over the valley in order to stay away from the people to avoid any unwanted nuisances. Just about when I was wrapping up because I was getting a low battery warning, a family came around and one of the children said there was no flying allowed. One of the adults came forward and said the same thing, something about a rule or something.

I had researched earlier and found no drone restrictions for any city parks, and after landing my drone, searched in vain looking for any such drone restrictions specifically for the park I was at, as well as the city in general, but found zero such restrictions. And there are no official signage explicitly prohibiting drones posted anywhere at the park that I could find. My cousin lives down the hill and he and a friend comes out to this very same park to fly their drones. In fact, about a half hour later there were two other people flying drones at the edge of the field.

Either the family was misinformed regarding drones, or they simply don't like drones invading their privacy and attempt to prevent any drones from flying by spreading lies in hopes of scaring drone operators away.

I intend to contact the park services directly (hard to do during this pandemic as they are not fully staffed) to see if I can find a definitive answer, and if they confirm there are no such drone restrictions, how should I handle the next incident of strangers attempting to stop my drone flights?

I want to be as conciliatory and understanding as possible and explain that my only intent is practicing and not to invade privacy by flying over the homes below and being a "Tom," but I do not want to cave and close-up shop simply on their insistence alone.

Any advice on how to reasonably discuss the situation without getting into a heated debate? And if the other party simply would not back down even with concrete evidence provided of the right to fly, would it be better for the hobby overall to tuck tail and leave?

I've tried to be as unobtrusive as possible and avoid flying over people and homes, but it seems even trying to be as courteous as possible, some people may simply not want any drones around, period.

 

[RoarRoar]

"I didn't know that, no problem I'll look into it. Thanks".

Then go on your way. Nothing more than something along those lines needs to be said. Even if you know you are right it does no good sometimes to prove them wrong. "Oh OK I didn't know" and focus on your control. Chances are they will leave thinking they got the upper hand.

 

[Auggie]

"I didn't know that, no problem I'll look into it. Thanks".

That's essentially what I said, "Thanks, I didn't know that," then continued with landing my drone (which I had to reacquire its location visually as I lost sight of it during the discussion) as they walked away. I didn't say I was quitting nor leaving, and simply sat down on the bench next to me to apply Google-fu for evidence of such claim.

 

[vindibona1]

You did a great job researching the area. Looking up for local laws and restrictions should keep you in good stead with everyone... but as you found out, there's always one in every crowd. I assume your research was as complete and accurate as possible. However, there are ignorant bullies everywhere these days. Since you were done flying you took that path of least resistance and just acquiesced. I'm not so sure I would have taken the same approach. I feel we have to, politely, educate people. In failing to do so we encourage them bully the next innocent pilot that comes along.

What I probably would have said, politetly, is "I researched all the state and local laws and ordinances and nowhere did I find any restrictions from flying in this area. I want to obey all the rules and regulations, so I would appreciate it if you would show me where there is notice that the area is restricted from drone flying". The "please educate me" approach is a soft way to call out people who talk without knowing [so many of them these days]. I try very hard to be polite, if not diplomatic and totally stay away from abrasive. But I hate ignorant bullies.

There are a few things you should know if you don't know them already. Assuming that Sandy Eggo is in the US, the FAA controls ALL the air space. Period. What the local areas might be able to do is restrict launch and land points. There are of course NFZ's, which DJI will so graciously advise you of with their geofencing and you can also find restricted or limited areas on Airmap or Kittyhawk apps. But for the most part anything within FAA's jurisdiction is fair game. One thing I always do is print out the state and local ordinances and keep them with me when I fly. If ever challenged I can show that I have in fact done my research (and tacitly it's their turn to put up or shut up).

I'd like to relate a conversation I had with a Chicago city official when trying to figure out where it is legal to fly in Chicago. It took several phone calls to get to here, but somehow I ended up speaking to the office of emergency management and spoke with a fellow who just also happened to be a pilot. He was extremely kind and helpful. He pretty much said that the city is open for flight if you stay within the FAA rules and don't obnoxiously fly over private property. He also indicated that the Park Districts are autonomous agencies so I might be challenged launching from park district property. However he said I could launch from city property and fly over park district property because that's the FAA jurisdiction. One other thing he said is that I could "hand launch/catch" and would technically be in observance of the regulation. I don't think he was joking :0. But he also gave me his contact info (which I cannot share) and he said that if I thought I'd be flying in a questionable area he would send out an inter-agency email indicating my presence and ability to fly in that area. That was super nice of him.

 

[Auggie]

Assuming that Sandy Eggo is in the US, the FAA controls ALL the air space. Period.

Hehe, tis "San Diego" of SoCal!

Yea, the city of San Diego issued guidelines via flyer that basically state that the FAA is the exclusive authority of enforcement (although I don't think their guidance regarding FPV Goggles as not being allowed is not accurate according to someone who read the FAA regulations which said that they are legal if an observer is utilized).

The city parks and recreation website don't have any rules publicly posted preventing drones at their parks. Now, I did come across a San Diego COUNTY application for flying a UAS over county property, but I was flying over a city community park.

I submitted an inquiry to the city parks services regarding drone rules and restrictions and waiting for a response....

 

[Blume TMS]

You did right, being confrontational will only lead to trouble... doesn't matter who owns the airspace.... if you start an argument with folks... bystanders will only see two idiots arguing.......

 

[Lets Fly]

You did right, being confrontational will only lead to trouble... doesn't matter who owns the airspace.... if you start an argument with folks... bystanders will only see two idiots arguing.......

True, you should not start an argument, try to show proof you can fly there, or have them show proof you can't. We don't blindly walk away because some uninformed persons makes a claim they can't prove. At some pointe we have to stick up for our rights or they will walk all over us.

 

[Oldhollowman]

So I flew my second session ever from a city recreational park, on a weekend where the large football-size playing field had widely dispersed groups of people enjoying the beautiful day.

It's on a tall hilltop with a walking track going around the playing field:

View attachment 126201

I went right to the edge of the field and performed my flight ops out over the valley in order to stay away from the people to avoid any unwanted nuisances. Just about when I was wrapping up because I was getting a low battery warning, a family came around and one of the children said there was no flying allowed. One of the adults came forward and said the same thing, something about a rule or something.

I had researched earlier and found no drone restrictions for any city parks, and after landing my drone, searched in vain looking for any such drone restrictions specifically for the park I was at, as well as the city in general, but found zero such restrictions. And there are no official signage explicitly prohibiting drones posted anywhere at the park that I could find. My cousin lives down the hill and he and a friend comes out to this very same park to fly their drones. In fact, about a half hour later there were two other people flying drones at the edge of the field.

Either the family was misinformed regarding drones, or they simply don't like drones invading their privacy and attempt to prevent any drones from flying by spreading lies in hopes of scaring drone operators away.

I intend to contact the park services directly (hard to do during this pandemic as they are not fully staffed) to see if I can find a definitive answer, and if they confirm there are no such drone restrictions, how should I handle the next incident of strangers attempting to stop my drone flights?

I want to be as conciliatory and understanding as possible and explain that my only intent is practicing and not to invade privacy by flying over the homes below and being a "Tom," but I do not want to cave and close-up shop simply on their insistence alone.

Any advice on how to reasonably discuss the situation without getting into a heated debate? And if the other party simply would not back down even with concrete evidence provided of the right to fly, would it be better for the hobby overall to tuck tail and leave?

I've tried to be as unobtrusive as possible and avoid flying over people and homes, but it seems even trying to be as courteous as possible, some people may simply not want any drones around, period.

I have mentioned before that the worst thing that bothers me are people who approach me to tell me of rules and regulations and who don't actually know them.

 

[tlswift58]

You did a great job researching the area. Looking up for local laws and restrictions should keep you in good stead with everyone... but as you found out, there's always one in every crowd. I assume your research was as complete and accurate as possible. However, there are ignorant bullies everywhere these days. Since you were done flying you took that path of least resistance and just acquiesced. I'm not so sure I would have taken the same approach. I feel we have to, politely, educate people. In failing to do so we encourage them bully the next innocent pilot that comes along.

What I probably would have said, politetly, is "I researched all the state and local laws and ordinances and nowhere did I find any restrictions from flying in this area. I want to obey all the rules and regulations, so I would appreciate it if you would show me where there is notice that the area is restricted from drone flying". The "please educate me" approach is a soft way to call out people who talk without knowing [so many of them these days]. I try very hard to be polite, if not diplomatic and totally stay away from abrasive. But I hate ignorant bullies.

There are a few things you should know if you don't know them already. Assuming that Sandy Eggo is in the US, the FAA controls ALL the air space. Period. What the local areas might be able to do is restrict launch and land points. There are of course NFZ's, which DJI will so graciously advise you of with their geofencing and you can also find restricted or limited areas on Airmap or Kittyhawk apps. But for the most part anything within FAA's jurisdiction is fair game. One thing I always do is print out the state and local ordinances and keep them with me when I fly. If ever challenged I can show that I have in fact done my research (and tacitly it's their turn to put up or shut up).

I'd like to relate a conversation I had with a Chicago city official when trying to figure out where it is legal to fly in Chicago. It took several phone calls to get to here, but somehow I ended up speaking to the office of emergency management and spoke with a fellow who just also happened to be a pilot. He was extremely kind and helpful. He pretty much said that the city is open for flight if you stay within the FAA rules and don't obnoxiously fly over private property. He also indicated that the Park Districts are autonomous agencies so I might be challenged launching from park district property. However he said I could launch from city property and fly over park district property because that's the FAA jurisdiction. One other thing he said is that I could "hand launch/catch" and would technically be in observance of the regulation. I don't think he was joking :0. But he also gave me his contact info (which I cannot share) and he said that if I thought I'd be flying in a questionable area he would send out an inter-agency email indicating my presence and ability to fly in that area. That was super nice of him.

Many people "ASSUME" that since it's a city park full of people - no drones are allowed. Since one of the kids said it first seems to verify that. Most people are aware that drones are not to be flown over large groups of people and they were simply regurgitating that - without even knowing where "he" was flying. Again, they simply assumed he was flying over them.

The first answers about being polite and saying "Oh, I didn't know that!" and leaving it at that is the best way to handle it. Thank them for the "advice" and move on. Far too many "Karens" out there in the world to call the cops or worse and blow a situation totally out of control.

 

[Droning on and on...]

... Assuming that Sandy Eggo is in the US, the FAA controls ALL the air space. Period. ...

Not completely true. NOAA regulates the airspace below 1,000 feet AGL over west coast marine sanctuaries, (2,000 feet AGL over Olympic Coast).

FAQ #3 addresses any conflict with FAA regulations.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) NOAA Regulated Overflight Zones of West Coast National Marine Sanctuaries | Office National Marine Sanctuaries

These FAQs were designed to address NOAA regulations pertaining to low-altitude motorized flight within four national marine sanctuaries on the west coast of the continental United States.

sanctuaries.noaa.gov

 

[DaveS]

Tons of good advice for you here on the forum. I would add that people are so crazy these days that no matter how nice and factual you are with them, they may become confrontational to the point of violence. And, as we know in America, there are MANY guns and you never know if some nut is carrying and just itchin' to use it. I am not kidding here. So, if someone goes from "I'm telling you" to angry, then, by all means, pack it up then and there and go. Your safety is priority #1!

 

[cgmaxed]

You did a great job researching the area. Looking up for local laws and restrictions should keep you in good stead with everyone... but as you found out, there's always one in every crowd. I assume your research was as complete and accurate as possible. However, there are ignorant bullies everywhere these days. Since you were done flying you took that path of least resistance and just acquiesced. I'm not so sure I would have taken the same approach. I feel we have to, politely, educate people. In failing to do so we encourage them bully the next innocent pilot that comes along.

What I probably would have said, politetly, is "I researched all the state and local laws and ordinances and nowhere did I find any restrictions from flying in this area. I want to obey all the rules and regulations, so I would appreciate it if you would show me where there is notice that the area is restricted from drone flying". The "please educate me" approach is a soft way to call out people who talk without knowing [so many of them these days]. I try very hard to be polite, if not diplomatic and totally stay away from abrasive. But I hate ignorant bullies.

There are a few things you should know if you don't know them already. Assuming that Sandy Eggo is in the US, the FAA controls ALL the air space. Period. What the local areas might be able to do is restrict launch and land points. There are of course NFZ's, which DJI will so graciously advise you of with their geofencing and you can also find restricted or limited areas on Airmap or Kittyhawk apps. But for the most part anything within FAA's jurisdiction is fair game. One thing I always do is print out the state and local ordinances and keep them with me when I fly. If ever challenged I can show that I have in fact done my research (and tacitly it's their turn to put up or shut up).

I'd like to relate a conversation I had with a Chicago city official when trying to figure out where it is legal to fly in Chicago. It took several phone calls to get to here, but somehow I ended up speaking to the office of emergency management and spoke with a fellow who just also happened to be a pilot. He was extremely kind and helpful. He pretty much said that the city is open for flight if you stay within the FAA rules and don't obnoxiously fly over private property. He also indicated that the Park Districts are autonomous agencies so I might be challenged launching from park district property. However he said I could launch from city property and fly over park district property because that's the FAA jurisdiction. One other thing he said is that I could "hand launch/catch" and would technically be in observance of the regulation. I don't think he was joking :0. But he also gave me his contact info (which I cannot share) and he said that if I thought I'd be flying in a questionable area he would send out an inter-agency email indicating my presence and ability to fly in that area. That was super nice of him.

I have an idea. Tell them, you won't fly your drone, as long as they keep their cell phone cameras locked in their cars. Those cell phone "Toms" are really dangerous folk.

 

[Auggie]

bystanders will only see two idiots arguing.......

Hehe, so true...

 

[Auggie]

We don't blindly walk away because some uninformed persons makes a claim they can't prove. At some pointe we have to stick up for our rights or they will walk all over us.

This is the dilemma I'm, and I assume, all of us are facing, to seek that fine line of reason, understanding, and when to stand to or stand down. It will have to depend on the situation and how aggressive the other party is in forcing their opinionated position upon us...

 

[cgmaxed]

This is the dilemma I'm, and I assume, all of us are facing, to seek that fine line of reason, understanding, and when to stand to or stand down. It will have to depend on the situation and how aggressive the other party is in forcing their opinionated position upon us...

I've actually won a debate regarding my drone flights between myself and the police. Why? I had already called the appropriate city and county departments looking for any local laws. There weren't any. Then I printed all the relevant FAA statutes and kept them in my pocket along with my registration as well as having my drone tagged with it. I didn't argue much. I just let the paper work do the talking. It was my neighborhood and surrounding streets at night. I had appropriate lights. I simply gave them all the stuff I printed out and they took pics of it and my registration. I never heard back from them. I also had another issue about landing and take off on the beach, a part of the beach too close to an avian estuary. I simply packed it up, because I myself wasn't sure. So I called the local agencies and city ordinance dept. Come to find out, I was legally flying. The restricted avian areas need to be posted as such. If posted, a drone can't take off or land closer than 500 feet from the estuary boundry. I was far enough away. I have since printed that statute and keep it in my wallet. But, be warned, if an official city servant approaches you, they can make charges up. They can say you are a nuisance, disturbing the peace, possibly being voyeuristic, being wreckless. I won't stop flying if a regular citizen comes up to me, but I sure am not going to argue with an official of the city, unless I have all my ordinances and statutes printed and with me. I would show them to the official, but wouldn't stick around if he or she asked me to leave. Why go through the hassle.

 

[Auggie]

Those are good experiences and ideas to learn from.

For me, I was just flabberghasted how quickly I came across the "non-compliance police" right as I'm starting up in this hobby: this was my second flight ever! My first flight was in a mostly empty school parking lot.

So to come across this situation so soon leads me to believe that there are more vocal people out there suspicious of any drone activity than I was aware of; at least in my neck of the woods.

 

[Xbrit]

I contacted the city in December about flying in a specific city park using this website:

Ask Parks and Get It Done | City of San Diego Official Website

Connect with the City by using the Get It Done App! Get It Done can be used to report problems related to City assets, making appointments for passport services or to schedule time at the City's Household Hazardous Waste Materials drop-off facility. Do not use Get It Done for reporting...

www.sandiego.gov

Took them about a week to get back to me, but they provided a very detailed response by email. Some of it wasn't quite up to date (They weren't aware of LAANC to get permision to fly within 5 miles of SAN) but otherwise provided good info about protected wildlife sites within the park and where and when it was permissible to fly.

Flown there several times since and had no issues.

 

[cgmaxed]

Someone in this thread said a drone operator might be able to skirt the landing and take off ordinances by hand launching and hand catching your drone? Does anyone know if there is any merit to this?

 

[Thomas B]

Someone in this thread said a drone operator might be able to skirt the landing and take off ordinances by hand launching and hand catching your drone? Does anyone know if there is any merit to this?

No. Hand launching will not circumvent this type of law/rule.

 

[cgmaxed]

No. Hand launching will not circumvent this type of law/rule.

Thanks, I thought so. If the FAA didn't say it, I won't believe it.