I am always confused about ND filters

[redserv]

Hi guys, please be patient with me as I never really understood what ND filter are supposed to be used on a specific time when flying my MPP. I live in the Caribbean islands, for the past ten years or so most of the time at 8:30- 9:00am the sun have risen and hot the day begins to feel like an oven. For the most part the sun just seem to be at different angles as we progress through the day. basically what I am trying to say here is that the intensity of the sun don't change much here. So the questions becomes, what ND filter should i use? This is what i do: If its between

8AM -10AM- ND 8 OR ND 16
11AM -2 PM- ND32 OR ND32PL
3PM-5PM- ND32 OR ND16
Shutter speed always at 1/48
ISO- 100 ALL THE TIME
RES- 4K@24
DLOG- +1-0-0

1. I have read on this forum that one of the ways to know what ND filter to use is through the polar pro app.
2. Another recommendation was setup my mavic where i want to fly without ND filters, see whats the best video i can get tinkering with the ISO and then add the best filter so that the graph thingy peaks in the middle ( cant remember the name)

If you haven't noticed yet, I am pretty confused about this topic and have not found a simple explanation on YouTube. I have basically most of Polar pro filers for my drone and want the best picture possible,but I think I am missing something when putting the right filter on. Please help

 

[Mossiback]

For starters, unless you want some motion blur or need to cut reflections, ND or NDPL filters are only needed for video to induce a bit of motion blur. Without this motion blur your video may appear choppy, especially when panning. The goal is to make the shutter speed denominator no faster than twice the frame rate as in frame rate 30 fps then shutter speed 1/60. You also need to keep your ISO setting as low as possible for better overall quality.

Generial rules:
Sunrise/sunset - ND4
Cloudy day - ND8
Sunny day - ND16
Bright sun on sand or snow - ND32 or 64

More opinions on the matter may be found here: Search results for query: filter rule

 

[Mr. Salty]

Really, you just use whichever filter gives you the exposure you want for the conditions. You just look at the Mavic's light meter while you're still on the ground, with the camera pointed at something that's lit similar to what you'll be shooting video of (not into shadows, for example), and see which filter gets the meter closest to the correct exposure.

 

[msinger]

Without this motion blur your video may appear choppy, especially when panning

It's also important to note that this motion blur is really only helpful if the Mavic is close to the subject(s) it's shooting. If flying high in the sky, most people (likely everybody) won't notice that motion blur has been added.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

You seem to be doing everything right there with filter selection and shutter speed.
Why are you asking for help ?
Are you not happy with your video results ?
The PL filters could be the problem if not adjusted correctly.
If you have any examples of videos you aren’t happy with, maybe post a link or two to show the problem ?

 

[redserv]

Thank you for the feedback guys, I thought maybe their was some calculations that needed to be had to get the correct ND filter for the amount if light. What I get from this it's basically once I am satisfied with the video quality. Take a look at my channel. I often think sometimes the clouds and the sand on the beach can be Abit overexposed. I am not sure how to fix in post and I thought maybe the ND filters could be the issue. Take a look at some of my work, see if I am.jyst asking for too much from the MPP. Take a look at my channel.

www.youtube.com/triniweekes

 

[redserv]

For starters, unless you want some motion blur or need to cut reflections, ND or NDPL filters are only needed for video to induce a bit of motion blur. Without this motion blur your video may appear choppy, especially when panning. The goal is to make the shutter speed denominator no faster than twice the frame rate as in frame rate 30 fps then shutter speed 1/60. You also need to keep your ISO setting as low as possible for better overall quality.

Generial rules:
Sunrise/sunset - ND4
Cloudy day - ND8
Sunny day - ND16
Bright sun on sand or snow - ND32 or 64

More opinions on the matter may be found here: Search results for query: filter rule

Thank you Mossi I will do some additional reading this, maybe I am expecting too much from my MPP

 

[redserv]

You seem to be doing everything right there with filter selection and shutter speed.
Why are you asking for help ?
Are you not happy with your video results ?
The PL filters could be the problem if not adjusted correctly.
If you have any examples of videos you aren’t happy with, maybe post a link or two to show the problem ?

I am very interested on the right technique to put on the PL filters I turn it like 360 degrees and still struggle to find the perfect sweet spot, lol

 

[msinger]

I often think sometimes the clouds and the sand on the beach can be Abit overexposed

Yes, there do seem to be many overexposed areas in your videos. You can use the histogram in DJI GO to find the proper exposure when you're out shooting video.

 

[Mossiback]

I am very interested on the right technique to put on the PL filters I turn it like 360 degrees and still struggle to find the perfect sweet spot, lol

PL filters are tricky. I was surprised to find that my Polar Pro set was not marked to show orientation like every SLR polarizing filter I have owned. One way to mark them is to look through them while wearing some polarizing sunglasses. Rotate the filter until light showing through it is at it's darkest. Then mark the rim at 90 degrees. Then you mount the filter with the mark pointed toward the sun while pointing the Mavic at the planned flying direction. This is a big PIA because it is so easy to miss either angle. If I do not have a particular shot in mind I normally set mine with the mark on top. Then at least I know where it is and can position properly for the greatest effect.

 

[redserv]

Yes, there do seem to be many overexposed areas in your videos. You can use the histogram in DJI GO to find the proper exposure when you're out shooting video.

I try my best to make sure the histograph is mostly in the middle. I will keep experimenting with this and see if I can cut the over exposure. I think I am flying directly at the sun instead if having the sun behind me

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

PL filters need to be adjusted to the various lights at all directions to the different lighting.
Of course this is easier to do (or adjust of the go) when using them on a hand held camera, on a drone it is a big hassle.
Some say set it up holding it up looking through at water for example, turn to the sweet spot where it cuts through glare, fit at that rotation then fly.
Adjust if needed, but you can get the see through water thing happening at least in that direction.
I think too hard for drones, maybe a tiny bit easier for PL filters with adjustable turn ring, rather than push on.
How do the new square format PL filters work ?

 

[JohnChap]

If you have over-exposed photos/videos, the answer is not in ND filters but in the exposure. The right finger-wheel on the controller allows you to make the exposure higher or lower than what the auto-setting thinks. I find I invariable have it set at -0.3 or -0.7 to avoid over-exposure.

 

[redserv]

Thank you guys for all the great suggestions. I will be experiment with my ND filters and continue using the histogram as best as I can

 

[BrucenYvette]

Just thought I'd throw in my 2-cents worth. I was somewhat of an amateur photographer 40 years ago when 35mm SLR cameras where the "thing", back before the digital-age when you shot photos on film and had to pay for photo processing and pick up your prints.

This was one of the ways I was explained the effect of ND filters: The old SLR cameras had "f-stops" by which the "aperture" was manually adjusted. "Aperture" controlled how "big" or how "small" the lens opened when you snapped a picture. You wanted the lens to open "big" in low-light situations, and "small" in bright light situations. The lower the "f-stop" the bigger the lens opened when you snapped a picture.

Common "f-stops" where 1.4, 2.8, 5.6, 8, 11, and 16 (I think). So, if I was shooting indoors or in low-light, I'd use somewhere between 1.4 and 5.6. If I was in sunny snow or a day at the beach in bright sun, I'd use 16.

The Mavic Pro has a fixed "aperture" camera and it is 2.2 (I believe).

ND filters serve to "fool" the camera. When you use the ND 4, it makes the Mavic camera "think" it's aperture is "f-stop" 4. When you use the ND 8, the Mavic camera "thinks" its aperture is 8. And if you use the ND 16, the Mavic camera "thinks" its aperture is 16.

So, I fly and shoot a lot of "beach" and "water" stuff because I live in northeast Florida. I find that during summer mid-day, I use my ND 16 almost 100% of the time unless its cloudy. During the winter months the sun is a little lower on the horizon and less intense, so winter mid-day shoots I use ND 4.

When shooting "golden-hour" (the hour beginning at sunrise or the hour up to sunset), I then use various ND depending on what I'm shooting.

This is the explanation of an amateur. I'm a long way away from being a pro photographer.

 

[Meta4]

ND filters serve to "fool" the camera. When you use the ND 4, it makes the Mavic camera "think" it's aperture is "f-stop" 4. When you use the ND 8, the Mavic camera "thinks" its aperture is 8. And if you use the ND 16, the Mavic camera "thinks" its aperture is 16.

They don't "fool" the camera at all - it's smarter than that.
The ND filter simply cuts the amount of light that gets to the sensor.
An ND2 or 1 stop filter cuts 50% of the light.
ND4 only allows 25% of the light through
ND8 - one eighth of the light gets through
ND16 - one 16th etc.

 

[MavicFT1P]

Just thought I'd throw in my 2-cents worth. I was somewhat of an amateur photographer 40 years ago when 35mm SLR cameras where the "thing", back before the digital-age when you shot photos on film and had to pay for photo processing and pick up your prints.

This was one of the ways I was explained the effect of ND filters: The old SLR cameras had "f-stops" by which the "aperture" was manually adjusted. "Aperture" controlled how "big" or how "small" the lens opened when you snapped a picture. You wanted the lens to open "big" in low-light situations, and "small" in bright light situations. The lower the "f-stop" the bigger the lens opened when you snapped a picture.

Common "f-stops" where 1.4, 2.8, 5.6, 8, 11, and 16 (I think). So, if I was shooting indoors or in low-light, I'd use somewhere between 1.4 and 5.6. If I was in sunny snow or a day at the beach in bright sun, I'd use 16.

The Mavic Pro has a fixed "aperture" camera and it is 2.2 (I believe).

ND filters serve to "fool" the camera. When you use the ND 4, it makes the Mavic camera "think" it's aperture is "f-stop" 4. When you use the ND 8, the Mavic camera "thinks" its aperture is 8. And if you use the ND 16, the Mavic camera "thinks" its aperture is 16.

So, I fly and shoot a lot of "beach" and "water" stuff because I live in northeast Florida. I find that during summer mid-day, I use my ND 16 almost 100% of the time unless its cloudy. During the winter months the sun is a little lower on the horizon and less intense, so winter mid-day shoots I use ND 4.

When shooting "golden-hour" (the hour beginning at sunrise or the hour up to sunset), I then use various ND depending on what I'm shooting.

This is the explanation of an amateur. I'm a long way away from being a pro photographer.

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[BrucenYvette]

They don't "fool" the camera at all - it's smarter than that.
The ND filter simply cuts the amount of light that gets to the sensor.
An ND2 or 1 stop filter cuts 50% of the light.
ND4 only allows 25% of the light through
ND8 - one eighth of the light gets through
ND16 - one 16th etc.

I like your explanation better'n mine, Meta4. Easier for an old man to understand. LOL

 

[redserv]

I like your explanation better'n mine, Meta4. Easier for an old man to understand. LOL
[/QUOTE
Maybe I am not getting it, but the higher the ND filter example: ND32 stops more light coming through than ND16 right?

 

[Meta4]

ND32 would only let 1/32 (that's 3%) of the light get through.