Is what DJI does with the Mavic legal?

MacPap · Sep 7, 2017

gnirtS said:
.... Nobody is forcing anyone to upgrade if they don't want. I fail to see the issue.

Wrong the bird is updated when send in for service by default!!!!!

dewster · Sep 7, 2017

The lease or licensing agreement? Lol. They own you. Muhahaha!

Robbyg · Sep 8, 2017

Doecliff said:
--SNIP---
I don't like that DJI has that control over my mavic but I think a lot of it is perceived rather than real
--SNIP---

Everyone feels that way until they get into their first NFZ that is not even on the NFZ Map. It gets worst when you have to beg DJI for permission to fly! Then you really know that they are in control.

Rob

Turnerm · Sep 8, 2017

Someone wake me up when any of this matters. You can talk till you're blue in the face about all these horrible things but until it matters no one will care. And frankly, I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that it will NEVER matter in any material way to 99.99% of people.

HKFEVER · Sep 8, 2017

Oh well, most of ppl won't experience the whole Hong Kong 2,754 km² locked down, we have this for couple days, when DJI want to do that to please Chinese officials.

Oh well, most of ppl won't experience the whole Shenzhen 2,050 km² locked down for good, when DJI want to do that.

So what can we do?

MacPap · Sep 25, 2017

Is there something moving?
"DJI Drone Software Update – Class Action Investigation"

MacPap · Sep 25, 2017

I wonder if this is what some people here in the forum referred to

Rbruz · Sep 29, 2017

MacPap said:
Is there something moving?
"DJI Drone Software Update – Class Action Investigation"

Nope they abandoned it, I rang, she said call dji if you have issues with the mavic

MacPap · Sep 29, 2017

Ok that is curious... Having it on their site and yet ...

Rbruz · Sep 29, 2017

MacPap said:
Ok that is curious... Having it on their site and yet ...

‭(909) 557-1250‬ sounded like cough cough payed off by cough cough ( my opinion )

MavicPilot · Sep 29, 2017

This is a super long thread, but I am adding in that I was pretty flaming yesterday.

I took my P3A out for the first time in awhile, then I moved onto my Spark: MP has been sent out for repair.

Neither the P3A or the Spark have been used very frequently, but a few times here and there. So, after about 6 flights on the Spark, at home, I decided to pack up and go out and play - an hour away.

I get her ready, and I see an error "Cannot Take off" , "Aircraft locked. Update to the latest version".

I suspect that my P3A will be in the same shape, but whatever I have to update. The thing is.. I did not have internet where i was and I lost out on my experience. Plus, it took me about to flash the device, batteries etc.

I rarely use my device online, but I also see that DJI is getting hit by Apple and Google for "silently" updating the GO 4 app outside of the official channels. So, there is where I feel the legality comes in! Sure, force us to update the app, but give us warning and do not hide behind things to push things through.

After, I put up the nofirewall or whatever it is called... boy it is insane how much traffic the go 4 app transmits!

MacPap · Sep 30, 2017

Yes and then they sound surprised that everyone is looking for a way to mod their drone....

MavicJohn85 · Jun 16, 2018

The bottom line is, as an example, flying in certain zones requires control tower notification. My apartment complex is right at the edge of a local small airport, and I wanted to fly in the local park at less than 50 feet of height. Have flown other drones with control tower authorization with no problems as I'm a responsible pilot, and fly accordingly.

The product is designed to fly. They impose a technical lock, and in some cases require you to pay additional moneys to do so. If the product is not performing a basic capability for what it was designed, they can be challenged. I understand them trying to be a first class citizen, but as others mentioned here, if you buy a car and irresponsibly speed and get a ticket, it is your responsibility, in no way shape or form does the car manufacturer limit your speed in the area you are driving, or, shut off your engine. Same concept that can be challenged in court.

TheRoach · Jun 16, 2018

This is why I left DJI now that Yuneec has put a 1 inch sensor on the market. Check out nolimitdronez

method007 · Jun 16, 2018

Anything can be challenged in court. There is nothing to sue DJI over however. Their proactive attempts to provide layers of security regarding drone usage will be determined to be considerably more important than customers who fail to read their manuals or stay abreast of the software changes they are agreeing to in their firmware updates. Beyond that, any suit would have to prove damages. I’ve yet to see a situation where DJI would be held liable for damages.

Let’s not gas people up and pretend like lawsuits would lead to anything beneficial to anybody but the attorneys.

MavicJohn85 · Jun 16, 2018

method007 said:
Anything can be challenged in court. There is nothing to sue DJI over however. Their proactive attempts to provide layers of security regarding drone usage will be determined to be considerably more important than customers who fail to read their manuals or stay abreast of the software changes they are agreeing to in their firmware updates. Beyond that, any suit would have to prove damages. I’ve yet to see a situation where DJI would be held liable for damages.

Let’s not gas people up and pretend like lawsuits would lead to anything beneficial to anybody but the attorneys.

I have to disagree. "Layers of security" should not equate to blocking basic functionality a product was intended for. And "customers who fail to read the manual" falls under this same question: Do you read your car's manual front to back? Most likely the answer is no. Yet, you do take a driver's license test, right? The FAA laws require the exact same thing, you need a license or registration to operate anything above 0.55 lbs, period, if you're caught flying without your registration you get a ticket. Other companies include a "Know before you fly" pamphlet in the product to inform users of laws before they fly which is really what DJI should be doing in the first place.

If DJI really wanted to protect consumer and safety interests, then require the user to take a test, or provide evidence of license or drone registration, and knowledge of local laws. But that would affect sales, surprise surprise.

In terms of damages, one very simple and clear damage is the cost of the drone. Take someone that reviews drones for a living, or a developer, or someone that uses drones to survey properties commercially and follows every single rule of the FAA but is blocked from taking off at a customer site. Those are damages.

It's all simple, don't assume every drone pilot is stupid, like you don't assume every car driver is the same, and have the LAW take care of those that break the rules, rather than imposing limitations on the product assuming all drone pilots are the same and don't follow rules.

xa6driver · Jun 16, 2018

MavicJohn85 said:
The bottom line is, as an example, flying in certain zones requires control tower notification. My apartment complex is right at the edge of a local small airport, and I wanted to fly in the local park at less than 50 feet of height. Have flown other drones with control tower authorization with no problems as I'm a responsible pilot, and fly accordingly.

The product is designed to fly. They impose a technical lock, and in some cases require you to pay additional moneys to do so. If the product is not performing a basic capability for what it was designed, they can be challenged. I understand them trying to be a first class citizen, but as others mentioned here, if you buy a car and irresponsibly speed and get a ticket, it is your responsibility, in no way shape or form does the car manufacturer limit your speed in the area you are driving, or, shut off your engine. Same concept that can be challenged in court.

Totally agree. If I see software changes that preclude me from flying where I live I'll be done with DJI. I live nine miles from a municipal airport and so far no restriction on taking a picture like this from my back door: So far any changes haven't affected my ability to scale this mountain to 1600 feet (400' above the top).

method007 · Jun 17, 2018

MavicJohn85 said:
I have to disagree. "Layers of security" should not equate to blocking basic functionality a product was intended for. And "customers who fail to read the manual" falls under this same question: Do you read your car's manual front to back? Most likely the answer is no. Yet, you do take a driver's license test, right? The FAA laws require the exact same thing, you need a license or registration to operate anything above 0.55 lbs, period, if you're caught flying without your registration you get a ticket. Other companies include a "Know before you fly" pamphlet in the product to inform users of laws before they fly which is really what DJI should be doing in the first place.

If DJI really wanted to protect consumer and safety interests, then require the user to take a test, or provide evidence of license or drone registration, and knowledge of local laws. But that would affect sales, surprise surprise.

In terms of damages, one very simple and clear damage is the cost of the drone. Take someone that reviews drones for a living, or a developer, or someone that uses drones to survey properties commercially and follows every single rule of the FAA but is blocked from taking off at a customer site. Those are damages.

It's all simple, don't assume every drone pilot is stupid, like you don't assume every car driver is the same, and have the LAW take care of those that break the rules, rather than imposing limitations on the product assuming all drone pilots are the same and don't follow rules.

I’m discussing the legal aspect of it only. DJI has provided ample explanation of how the software functions in manual form and in the app you must use to fly the drone. That is their reasonable due diligence. I’m not assuming anyone is stupid, I’m assuming they aren’t reading the manuals or paying attention to the onscreen prompts in the app. You can check in advance where you will be flying. You know in advance what you will be facing.

787steve · Jun 17, 2018

MacPap said:
Ok I have a question that is bothering me for some time now...

When I ordered my Mavic I did so evaluating its abilities and reading and watching all the promotional videos of the company regarding its performance.

Now after a couple o months DJI asks for a forced firmware update that could restrict the Mavic even more and all that without my consent....

So here is the question. Can DJI do that? Take away abilities for which I have payed and which were decisive in my initial decision to go for the Mavic? Can they simply say "if you do not do what i say ill cripple the product you bought"?
Can they really legally change a product to something inferior to what I bought and get away with it?

Or is there a way to get them to refund me (and all users for that matter) the difference in dollars between the Mavic and a drone that can simply fly 50m away 30m up and has no cam costing a couple of bucks?

Kostas

YES.

dewster · Jun 17, 2018

I modded mine.

I guess some of what DJI is doing is avoiding damaging lawsuits. Just think about the near misses GoPro had with their Karmas falling out of the sky.

I can see forced firmware updates to fix fatal flaws like flyaways or craft dropping out of the sky. I’m not happy with them telling me where and when I can fly. Wait...let me call Mom and see if I can go out to play.

I’m sure DJI can shut everyone that’s online down with a flip of the switch. That was one reason I went with Yuneec Typhoon H over the Phantom 4. Offline performance.