Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

[VooDooZG]

Very true. Photos are equal to the P4P. It's all about the video processing. Having a 1inch-type sensor is only half the story. HOW YOU "READ" that sensor is the other half of the story. Remember,...the faster you read it and the more you read it, the hotter it gets!

They Mavic-2 Pro's camera "box" is absolutely TINY. It's a miracle DJI can keep it cool at all!

Limiting the surface area that is being used can help cool that puppy down. Limiting surface area usage via line skipping or FOV center crop can help. The only other way to cool it with software was to slow that read clock but that was a huge "no no" as rolling shutter would get worse and worse.

So it's 100% same IQ in photo mode ( ph4pro v2.0 vs Mavic 2 pro ) - as I will use it 80% for photo that is only thing important to me ( because Phantom is too big for me as I come from Air ), my M2P is coming in like 5-10 days so I have little time to decide

- if any of you had or have Ph4 PRO and M2Pro and are also using them mostly for photo could you please tell me if there is a difference or is it just in video ..

thx

 

[Lon Denard]

Good question. If I’d known this major issue before. I would have waited. I’m a basic hobbiest in this With an untrained eye. I see no difference compared to my mp1. I’m sure the experts can say the opposite, but I was expecting a HUGE difference.
Considering returning myself.

You should return it.

 

[Lon Denard]

It's a big improvement over the MP1 but, if you don't see any difference, then I cannot see why you would keep it.

That's where I am. I don't keep anything that doesn't meet my expectations. When in doubt, return it. You can always buy it later if you want.

I just got home from flying and have been looking at the footage on my TV using my Crystalsky. (I'm upgrading my computer to handle H265 better) I have over 4T of Mavic Pro footage and I have no problem in saying that I'm happy with the footage I'm getting from the M2P.

 

[sar104]

Yes, you should buy a different brand and model of drone. Check out the Autel Evo.

Stop that.

 

[kilomikebravo]

Sigh...can there be no sanctuary from people insulting our president? Maybe they are acting like sanctimonious know it alls, very Obama-like?

No place for politics around here. But I certainly agree with your sentiment Lon.

 

[kilomikebravo]

That sums it up perfectly... most excellent job laddy.

 

[Lon Denard]

Stop that.

You're right...It's just so daunting to combat this DJI hate. I honestly wish everyone that doesn't like DJI would just please buy something else and allow us to be happy in our choice.


Again, I watched video on my 75" Q9 using my Crystalsky for God's sake and it looked AWESOME! Seriously, just outstanding. I'm filming in HQ mode, h264 and normal right now and couldn't be happier.

 

[Lon Denard]

Stop that.

I deleted the post out of respect for you.

 

[WithTheBirds]

you both are making really valuable contributions, on topic, to the discussion. It's very welcome.

Now, would one of you please demonstrate that you are actually an adult, and not a psychologically underdeveloped adolescent, and please walk away from this pointless, stupid manhood-size comparison you're both chest-beating about?

Think about how you come across to the rest of us. Trumplike.

Truplike? LOL.... think how that might come across to trump supporters.

 

[mattball]

Had about 4 guys I know in our local rc club return their MP2's for these reasons and the lens bending problem. I think it is awesome there are people out there looking out for others that consider these products to cost a great deal, thus great to have the guides that tell us to save or buy now. My major issues with DJI are always that Go4 app. It's horrible. Works, then doesn't, but when the product is used for making money that gets real aggravating.

I know it bugs the real DJI fan loyal base of people, but I like to have as much info as possible. I see great things about them, I see other photos and videos that demo it's not what it was cracked up to be. Then I hear it's awesome in low light. I don't fly at night. I have a 60D and a D750 for low light shots I can get from a building if necessary, and that is legal.

Why are people getting political about a drone? lmao

 

[Cliff_622]

I'm worried for your safety Cliff, DJI might send an assassin if you keep your video up lol. Or have they bribed you yet to take it down? LOL

I gave DJI one week to view the video privately. They watched it almost 80 times in that week but refused to answer me or say anything. If they had said I was right or wrong or just called me an @ss hole, I would have added whatever they said in my video to be fair.

This was never intended to be a "hit peice" on the Mavic-2 Pro. I own both Mavic-2's and I'm flying both.

Honestly, I'm VERY supprised this video has gotten the traction that it has. I figured that it would get 100 views and people would say "I dont understand this and I dont care anyway!" I was wrong about that!

Part of the problem is "us". We actually had these very high expectations that we wanted a 1inch-type sensor with PHANTOM 4 PRO performance in a Mavic. Those are VERY UNREALISTIC expectations from a technical AND marketing point of view! We just want DJI to "simply" cannibalize their P4P....and DJI does not agree with us!

Look.....the fact that DJI jam packed a 1inch-type into a tiny cube and kept it from overheating is amazing. Its possibly the smallest 1inch-type sensor camera ever created by anybody to date. No....they are not giving us the pixel count that we want. But the INDIVIDUAL quality, size, signal to noise ratio and dynamic range of each photsites is very good. (We just dont like the low number of them being used)

From a "legal" point of view, line skipping does not use the full sensor. But "legally", pixel binning does. Its funny though....the mode that reads all the photosites (FOV) is the worst performer and the mode that reads a FRACTION of the sensor is the best mode!! (HQ) Thats ironic!!!

We are all demanding that DJI cannibalize the Phantom 4 and future Phantom 5 series right now....today!! DJI just does not want to do this folks!

Actually,...I cant say I blame them.

Cliff

 

[Glomby]

I gave DJI one week to view the video privately. They watched it almost 80 times in that week but refused to answer me or say anything. If they had said I was right or wrong or just called me an @ss hole, I would have added whatever they said in my video to be fair.

This was never intended to be a "hit peice" on the Mavic-2 Pro. I own both Mavic-2's and I'm flying both.

Honestly, I'm VERY supprised this video has gotten the traction that it has. I figured that it would get 100 views and people would say "I dont understand this and I dont care anyway!" I was wrong about that!

Part of the problem is "us". We actually had these very high expectations that we wanted a 1inch-type sensor with PHANTOM 4 PRO performance in a Mavic. Those are VERY UNREALISTIC expectations from a technical AND marketing point of view! We just want DJI to "simply" cannibalize their P4P....and DJI does not agree with us!

Look.....the fact that DJI jam packed a 1inch-type into a tiny cube and kept it from overheating is amazing. Its possibly the smallest 1inch-type sensor camera ever created by anybody to date. No....they are not giving us the pixel count that we want. But the INDIVIDUAL quality, size, signal to noise ratio and dynamic range of each photsites is very good. (We just dont like the low number of them being used)

From a "legal" point of view, line skipping does not use the full sensor. But "legally", pixel binning does. Its funny though....the mode that reads all the photosites (FOV) is the worst performer and the mode that reads a FRACTION of the sensor is the best mode!! (HQ) Thats ironic!!!

We are all demanding that DJI cannibalize the Phantom 4 and future Phantom 5 series right now....today!! DJI just does not want to do this folks!

Actually,...I cant say I blame them.

Cliff

I wouldn't say the expectations were too high and it makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

The expectations align perfectly with what the M2P is supposed to be. It rings the same kind of bells the P4P did. 1" sensor, 4k and it goes even further with 10bit and the Hasselblad name. The reason your video got the attention it got is because people don't want P4P quality, they want more than that. And this is exactly how DJI is marketing the M2P.

Also I don't quiet see how the size of the camera would relate to heat dispersion. It's a tiny metal cube, so basically a heatsink with a constant airflow surrounding it. If anything, this thing is better cooled than most handheld cameras without active cooling. This thing is actively cooled with very powerful fans.

It is DJI's own marketing that sets these expectations and it is on us to expect the product to hold up to this. On top of that there are multiple tests out there to claim the M2P outperforms the P4P. Obviously these tests are horrible, but this shows you what people think they are getting and what they want out of it.

 

[sar104]

I gave DJI one week to view the video privately. They watched it almost 80 times in that week but refused to answer me or say anything. If they had said I was right or wrong or just called me an @ss hole, I would have added whatever they said in my video to be fair.

This was never intended to be a "hit peice" on the Mavic-2 Pro. I own both Mavic-2's and I'm flying both.

Honestly, I'm VERY supprised this video has gotten the traction that it has. I figured that it would get 100 views and people would say "I dont understand this and I dont care anyway!" I was wrong about that!

Part of the problem is "us". We actually had these very high expectations that we wanted a 1inch-type sensor with PHANTOM 4 PRO performance in a Mavic. Those are VERY UNREALISTIC expectations from a technical AND marketing point of view! We just want DJI to "simply" cannibalize their P4P....and DJI does not agree with us!

Look.....the fact that DJI jam packed a 1inch-type into a tiny cube and kept it from overheating is amazing. Its possibly the smallest 1inch-type sensor camera ever created by anybody to date. No....they are not giving us the pixel count that we want. But the INDIVIDUAL quality, size, signal to noise ratio and dynamic range of each photsites is very good. (We just dont like the low number of them being used)

From a "legal" point of view, line skipping does not use the full sensor. But "legally", pixel binning does. Its funny though....the mode that reads all the photosites (FOV) is the worst performer and the mode that reads a FRACTION of the sensor is the best mode!! (HQ) Thats ironic!!!

We are all demanding that DJI cannibalize the Phantom 4 and future Phantom 5 series right now....today!! DJI just does not want to do this folks!

Actually,...I cant say I blame them.

Cliff

I'm still not completely clear on what you have concluded or suspect. To ask it as simply as I can - in the two video modes in question, exactly how many individual pixels do you think are actually being read out from the sensor?

 

[Watash48]

Good question. If I’d known this major issue before. I would have waited. I’m a basic hobbiest in this With an untrained eye. I see no difference compared to my mp1. I’m sure the experts can say the opposite, but I was expecting a HUGE difference.
Considering returning myself.

Thank you

 

[Lon Denard]

I wouldn't say the expectations were too high and it makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

The expectations align perfectly with what the M2P is supposed to be. It rings the same kind of bells the P4P did. 1" sensor, 4k and it goes even further with 10bit and the Hasselblad name. The reason your video got the attention it got is because people don't want P4P quality, they want more than that. And this is exactly how DJI is marketing the M2P.

Also I don't quiet see how the size of the camera would relate to heat dispersion. It's a tiny metal cube, so basically a heatsink with a constant airflow surrounding it. If anything, this thing is better cooled than most handheld cameras without active cooling. This thing is actively cooled with very powerful fans.

It is DJI's own marketing that sets these expectations and it is on us to expect the product to hold up to this. On top of that there are multiple tests out there to claim the M2P outperforms the P4P. Obviously these tests are horrible, but this shows you what people think they are getting and what they want out of it.

I would absolutely agree with you IF DJI had set these expectations. They did not and it doesn't matter how many times you guys accuse them of it. They claimed one inch sensor, check. They claimed 4k 30 fps, check. They flat out told us that the HQ mode uses less of the sensor and gives better quality, check. They claim better low light photos using hyperlight, check. Etc. I'm not saying it's perfect but to blame DJI for the expectations YouTube set is ridiculous. DJI never claimed that the M2P was a foldable P4P. They claimed it was an improvement over the Mavic Pro. I watched the launch event twice, I read the manual and I looked at the specs before I dropped $2000. I knew what to expect and I got exactly that.

 

[Lon Denard]

I'm still not completely clear on what you have concluded or suspect. To ask it as simply as I can - in the two video modes in question, exactly how many individual pixels do you think are actually being read out from the sensor?

And how is that determination being made? As far as I can tell, I'm feeling that there's some confusion here. In HQ mode DJI claims that a portion of the sensor is being used without "binning" or whatever and in FOV, the entire sensor is being used and "processing" is being applied. The point of contention seems to be what kind of processing? Does that sum it up?

 

[yysc]

And how is that determination being made? As far as I can tell, I'm feeling that there's some confusion here. In HQ mode DJI claims that a portion of the sensor is being used without "binning" or whatever and in FOV, the entire sensor is being used and "processing" is being applied. The point of contention seems to be what kind of processing? Does that sum it up?

Well M2P has more aliasing/moire in 4K FOV mode than the M2Z, or the Autel Evo, or the Parrot Anafi. Of course DJI didn't say the M2P would have less aliasing than said cheaper drones, but it's still there, hence the general dissapointment.

Or M2P has far more aliasing in 1080p60 than the M2Z or M1P produced after March 2017. Both drones are also cheaper. But I guess again since DJI didn't promise any less aliasing than said drones, this is alright for you too right? And yes, also the P4P does better.

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[Anndybo]

Here is review by Philip Bloom. Looks like he didn't see Cliff's video

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[sar104]

And how is that determination being made? As far as I can tell, I'm feeling that there's some confusion here. In HQ mode DJI claims that a portion of the sensor is being used without "binning" or whatever and in FOV, the entire sensor is being used and "processing" is being applied. The point of contention seems to be what kind of processing? Does that sum it up?

I think so, but I'm finding it difficult to distinguish speculation from knowledge in this area.

 

[sar104]

Well M2P has more aliasing/moire in 4K FOV mode than the M2Z, or the Autel Evo, or the Parrot Anafi. Of course DJI didn't say the M2P would have less aliasing than said cheaper drones, but it's still there, hence the general dissapointment.

Or M2P has far more aliasing in 1080p60 than the M2Z or M1P produced after March 2017. Both drones are also cheaper. But I guess again since DJI didn't promise any less aliasing than said drones, this is alright for you too right? And yes, also the P4P does better.

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Presumably the increased aliasing is due to the low-pass filter being optimized for 4k. If the sensor site data are being combined on the sensor to allow faster recording at lower resolution then the filter will not be set low enough to prevent aliasing. That's a tradeoff that is difficult to get around.