Moverio a huge letdown so far

[lannes]

Yeah, I'm thinking CS is where I'll eventually end up if I stay with this hobby. I kept going back and forth, and decided to try the glasses first. Plus, they're a lot cheaper than the Ultra-bright, especially now with $100 off. Think I would be able to read the UB while wearing sunglasses? Long ago I had RK surgery (non-laser forerunner to Lasik) to correct my nearsightedness, and bright sun bothers me more than most folks.

Best of luck with CS UB, there have been over heating and backlight burn out problems. I was hoping for a new firmware upgrade to resolve some of the issues but DJI have not been forthcoming.
There are a lot of QC problems.

For me the Moverio's have been more reliable, I think you need to make a choice between seeing the FPV better or the AC better, it's a trade off , your not going to be seeing both equally well.
I always bias it towards seeing the hud better, If I really need to see the AC , I just look over the glasses.

 

[John Gowland]

I'm sorry to say this DJI and Epsom that the man is 100% correct it takes a great deal of patience and time and effort to get used to these things really everything you said is spot on including windows.
No matter what shades you wear I don't believe the present system you will ever be able to see your craft through the glasses unsee the display.
The only way as the man said is to look over the top. This is exactly how I felt for the first few weeks.
However I persisted and I still have to look over them but the distance is minuscule to see the display it's a blink.
But believe me RolandW it'll all be well worth the effort the time and the grunt. Give it a few weeks and you won't want to use anything else after all the hard work they are really amazing and make your flying so much more enjoyable and much better.

 

[John Gowland]

Here's what I think is the best deal why don't epson say look It is difficult to get used of these things so keep them for a month if you're not happy we will refund you. The user can then use various methods, wear them for a week use something else. Or a day then use something else but keep trying because they really are worth it. This way everyone wins. Epson acknowledge what most uses go through at first and give people the best chance to use their product. We get the chance to have an amazing experience.
If Epson want to build a solid base then think long term not short.
This is cutting edge stuff and its not easy for anyone. So lets see how good Epson are. Is the world a sphere or flat?
Oh and BTW we guinea pigs get a free upgrade for life
Simple.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci

 

[godiva92]

Thanks everybody for the great suggestions. I flew a little this morning with the Moverio in sunshine. Not Australia-bright, but pretty bright. Without sun lenses I could barely see the display at all. No surprise there. The light shades had little effect, and the dark ones were like a welding helmet. I had to look over them to see anything in the real world. No matter which way I turned my head or positioned the glasses, there was light reflecting and glaring. Lots of surfaces on the glasses for it to bounce off of. The farthest I flew was maybe 200 feet out. It just didn't feel safe.
Of course the usability of this device is very subjective and dependent on variations in users' eyesight, so I believe it when somebody says the display is fabulous for them. But what continues to astound me is how annoying and half-baked the hardware is. I covered the basic controls in the OP, but this morning I noticed a few more things. The clip that's supposed to hold the cable to your clothing is so weak that there's no way it will stay on, even when I'm just standing there. This is just a matter of choosing the proper spring to use, so why isn't it right? And no matter what size foam tips I use, the earbuds fall out immediately. I plugged in my Apple ones instead.
When I look at the Moverio/RC all cabled up on the kitchen table, what strikes me most is what a cumbersome contraption it is. Right now the only good thing I can think of to say about it is that GO 4 did run flawlessly on it. Maybe I should give it more time, but I'm leaning more toward giving up and getting a refund while I can.
I haven't cussed this much since I stopped using Windows.

Ok that’s probably the most negative user experience of BT300, although I don’t agree with it but this personal matter and can’t judge your feelings. But I have to say your last point about DJI Go run flawlessly, I just have to laugh out as the previous GO version was completely screw up which focus everyone has Mavic grounded or side load another apps. Hope this won’t immediately cause you refund the glasses.

 

[RolandW]

Best of luck with CS UB, there have been over heating and backlight burn out problems. I was hoping for a new firmware upgrade to resolve some of the issues but DJI have not been forthcoming.
There are a lot of QC problems.

For me the Moverio's have been more reliable, I think you need to make a choice between seeing the FPV better or the AC better, it's a trade off , your not going to be seeing both equally well.
I always bias it towards seeing the hud better, If I really need to see the AC , I just look over the glasses.

Thanks. Actually, your comments on the Moverio and on CS overheating were key in my decision to go with the glasses. I do value your informed opinion. I think I'll limp along with the Wunderphone for now and see how CS develops. I thought too I could look over the top of the glasses, but I couldn't make it work this morning in bright sun. I have to wear a hat, so the gap between the hat's bill and the top of the glasses is too slim to keep the drone in sight easily. If I slide the glasses down farther on my nose to widen the gap, then the display is not legible. So bottom line for me is I can't find a way to see either one very well.

 

[RolandW]

Here's what I think is the best deal why don't epson say look It is difficult to get used of these things so keep them for a month if you're not happy we will refund you. The user can then use various methods, wear them for a week use something else. Or a day then use something else but keep trying because they really are worth it. This way everyone wins. Epson acknowledge what most uses go through at first and give people the best chance to use their product. We get the chance to have an amazing experience.
If Epson want to build a solid base then think long term not short.
This is cutting edge stuff and its not easy for anyone. So lets see how good Epson are. Is the world a sphere or flat?
Oh and BTW we guinea pigs get a free upgrade for life
Simple.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci

I bought from B&H Photo, so I think I do have 30 days to return them. Plus I really wonder if there is a defect in the cross-key touch sensor since it doesn't respond most of the time. I might call them and see if they have someone who is familiar with Moverio and can tell me if I shouldn't expect the touch keys to work any better than this.

 

[RolandW]

Ok that’s probably the most negative user experience of BT300, although I don’t agree with it but this personal matter and can’t judge your feelings. But I have to say your last point about DJI Go run flawlessly, I just have to laugh out as the previous GO version was completely screw up which focus everyone has Mavic grounded or side load another apps. Hope this won’t immediately cause you refund the glasses.

Keep in mind that I only flew it for a few minutes, so it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of how Moverio and DJI GO work together. All I'm saying is that for the short time I flew, DJI GO was the least of my problems.

 

[lannes]

I bought from B&H Photo, so I think I do have 30 days to return them. Plus I really wonder if there is a defect in the cross-key touch sensor since it doesn't respond most of the time. I might call them and see if they have someone who is familiar with Moverio and can tell me if I shouldn't expect the touch keys to work any better than this.

For navigating around in DJI Go 4 the cross key only works when you are in the menu, to move around the flight screen to hit other buttons you have to use the touch pad.

The cross key I believe is primarily designed for menu navigation in the android os or within apps

 

[RolandW]

For navigating around in DJI Go 4 the cross key only works when you are in the menu, to move around the flight screen to hit other buttons you have to use the touch pad.

The cross key I believe is primarily designed for menu navigation in the android os or within apps

Yes, sorry, I should have made it clear that I wasn't expecting it to work within DJI GO. I've been trying to use it generally on the device for selection and adjusting screen brightness. The right side sometimes works, but the left almost never does. Is it functional and reliable on yours?

 

[lannes]

Yes, sorry, I should have made it clear that I wasn't expecting it to work within DJI GO. I've been trying to use it generally on the device for selection and adjusting screen brightness. The right side sometimes works, but the left almost never does. Is it functional and reliable on yours?

Yes it works perfectly on mine, but you have to tap it firmly

 

[DVegaman]

Thanks. Actually, your comments on the Moverio and on CS overheating were key in my decision to go with the glasses. I do value your informed opinion. I think I'll limp along with the Wunderphone for now and see how CS develops. I thought too I could look over the top of the glasses, but I couldn't make it work this morning in bright sun. I have to wear a hat, so the gap between the hat's bill and the top of the glasses is too slim to keep the drone in sight easily. If I slide the glasses down farther on my nose to widen the gap, then the display is not legible. So bottom line for me is I can't find a way to see either one very well.

Sunshade for Epson Moverio BT300 and protective case by Empiricus

Instead of a cap?

 

[Omega Flight]

I do need to try the sun lenses. With one of those installed, will the screen image be brighter relative to the sky? I haven't tried the earbuds either. I assume that without those I won't hear audible messages such as "The home point has been updated; please check it on the map"?

you can adjust brightness and yes the shades will help
your not giving them a chance
the startup screen looks not double to me but glowing in a not clear way...

 

[GeorgeLL]

Words can't describe how disappointed I am with the BT-300 after waiting all week for mine. I thought this would be the answer to my outdoor screen-viewing problems. And when I opened the box, there was even a free mount for the Mavic!
Today was too windy to fly, but now I'm not sure I'll even try it. Just setting this thing up has me so bleeping mad, squinting at the phone doesn't seem so bad.
Based on comments I had read, I knew the trackpad wouldn't be great, but I thought I would be able to put up with it. After all, this is not going to be my go-to word processor. But it seems like every time I touch it, I accidentally select something. Is there a setting to disable tap-to-select, so you have to press the Enter key instead? That would make the trackpad bearable, but if it's there, I can't find it.
I looked up how to quickly adjust screen brightness, but you have to toggle past the 2D/3D thing every time to get to it. Then the slider disappears before you can adjust it. So you toggle through to it again. And again. Annoy user, rinse, repeat.
The cross-key hardly works at all. I've tried every way I can think of to tap it, but most of the time it simply doesn't respond. The manual says it "will react to the lightest of touches." Baloney. I've tried light, heavy, short, long, everything. Most of the time nothing happens. The controls on this thing are absolutely maddening.
When the Epson logo appeared the first time I powered up, it was a double image. Same thing with the "Moverio" that followed it. What the heck? Thought it was just me, but my wife sees a double image too. Once I get past the startup, the image seems normal. I suspect this is just a perception thing and it takes a minute for my eyes to adjust and focus properly, but not a good first impression.
Could they have put the USB connection in a worse place? With the included straight cable, it's precisely in the way for my right hand. So much that I can hardly get my thumb on the stick. From reading comments and looking at pictures I knew I'd want a shorter cable with a 90-degree connector for this, but shouldn't something be included that is somewhat usable?
To top off the setup experience, when I tried to log in to Go 4 with my email and password, it told me to enter a mainland China phone number so it could send me a confirmation code. After I quit the app and re-launched it, the demand didn't reappear. Of course that one's not Epson's fault.
Outside, with the brightness all the way up, I cannot see much on the Go 4 screen against bright gray clouds. Looks like I'd have to be constantly searching for a dark background. Maybe that's where they got the name "Moverio": Ya got to moverie yo head a lot if you want to see anything.
I really wanted to like this thing.

I was out flying with the BT-300 this afternoon and I Installed the Blue Polarized lens from Rochester Optical and I think they are better than the dark lens. I can see the screen better. When I used an iPad mini I always had to deal with glare even if I stood in the shade. I also use a Hoodman but I found I always had my head down in the "cockpit". I took flight lessons years ago and my instructor was always cautioning me about having my head it the cockpit. I find the Movers are like a heads up display. You can see what your bird is actually doing and you can see what the bird sees.

 

[godiva92]

I was out flying with the BT-300 this afternoon and I Installed the Blue Polarized lens from Rochester Optical and I think they are better than the dark lens. I can see the screen better. When I used an iPad mini I always had to deal with glare even if I stood in the shade. I also use a Hoodman but I found I always had my head down in the "cockpit". I took flight lessons years ago and my instructor was always cautioning me about having my head it the cockpit. I find the Movers are like a heads up display. You can see what your bird is actually doing and you can see what the bird sees.

I just use the darkest window sunshade sticker of home and put it on the not too dark lens came with BT300. The result is very good and cheapest too.

 

[pzaz]

Can’t say I’m over the moon with my pair either. For first impressions haven’t made me want to use them all the time. With having to add accessories so that they work better makes me think they were not designed to be used outside.

 

[RolandW]

Okay, to those of you who said "give it a chance": I suspected from the start that you were right, so I gave it another shot yesterday. Now I'm glad I included the words "so far" in the title of this thread.
I'm definitely warming up to the Moverio experience. I think it's not as much a matter of getting used to the glasses as it is putting yourself into the FPV frame of mind. I decided yesterday that I was going to look over the top of the glasses only for takeoff and landing, or when the aircraft was very close to me. The rest of the time I concentrated on the GO 4 image. One thing that's nice about that (no news flash for FPV veterans, I'm sure) is that left is always left and right is always right, which makes the stickwork so much easier for a beginner.
By the time I got off the ground the clouds had rolled in, so I didn't have to deal with full sunshine. I put the dark sun lenses on anyway, which of course makes the image really pop. I had rejected the dark shades Saturday because I couldn't see my surroundings with them, but Sunday I made up my mind that I wouldn't worry about that, and the results were quite pleasant.
I flew three batteries, circling about a half-mile radius in our rural neighborhood at 200 to 400 feet altitude. Still no problems at all with GO 4, but I did get interference warnings a few times. Not sure where that's coming from. Aside from one small power line, there's nothing around here but cows and tractors.
I do stand by my assertion that this is a very awkward contraption to carry around. I had planned on 3D printing my own Mavic mount, but this morning I got the idea of either clipping the Moverio control to my clothes or hanging it around my neck with a lanyard. I might try to design a holder for that purpose that would include strain-relief for the cable connectors. Unfortunately, the lanyard anchor at the bottom of the unit is so close to the cable plug that it's unusable.
I called B&H Photo this morning to ask about the double image that I'm seeing on startup and the poor performance of the cross key. About half the time, I'll see a blurry double image of the words "Epson" and "Moverio" at startup. The Back, Home and History buttons are also double. It doesn't always happen. The first time I fired it up Sunday, all was sharp and clear. I have confirmed that it's not just me; my wife sees the same thing. The B&H rep had no explanation for this. He did say however that the cross key probably is defective and for that reason I should send it back. The key just doesn't respond to touch most of the time.
So, I'll probably exchange it for a new one. Btw, B&H is wonderful and I highly recommend them. The exchange won't be as fast as Amazon, but I was able to talk to a guy who has actually flown a drone with Moverio, and that was great. I didn't request a return authorization yet since I have until February 22. I'm going to play with them a little more and perhaps design a holding solution that I can work on while I wait. I do want to try flying again in full sunshine before deciding. I flew using a phone again for comparison, and it's so hard to read, even with clouds. All in all, things are looking up. If I get a BT-300 that has no defects, I want to try installing Litchi on it. I downloaded it for the phone yesterday and flew it a little. So far I like what I see.
Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[gjmphoto]

Glad you're warming up to it. It's taken me some time as well. The fact that there is no adjustment for the distance between your eyes may be what's giving you double vision. I have to shift my glasses from time to time to realign and I can never see both sides of the screen 100% clearly...good enough, but not always readable for small print. I would like to have a mechanism to change that distance. I would also LOVE a diopter adjustment (like my SLRs have), so that I don't need to use reading glasses (could that be a software upgrade or would it need hardware to implement?) - Epson, think about how awesome that would be...if I could dial in a diopter value from a settings screen!

The thing that has taken the most time to get used to though, is the touch pad. In particular, how to touch it so that it does what you want and doesn't select things you don't want. I'm still not perfect, but here's what I've found:
1) Be firm. Don't get "soft-touchy" or it will read your finger as leaving the pad and coming back - and unintended selections occur. I have found a nice steady pressure works best
2) Scroll with "click and hold" rather than using two fingers. For most apps, you can tap and hold and then drag the screen up or down. I have found this results in far fewer false taps and is just easier to control, particularly if you don't want to let go of the controller. You have to wait until it registers the click (the circle fills) and then you can move it (again, firmly). For me, this is easier, particularly when it's mounted with the controller and I don't want to move my hands too much.

FYI: I purchased the Rochester enclosure (Solitaire) which, although is a royal PITA to attach to the glasses, really enhances the experience of using them. I don't know why they couldn't have designed an easier installation with simpler tolerances, but for FPV experience, movie watching, and Go 4 screen clarity, they're hard to beat. I'm leaving the Solitare mounted at all times, because putting them on and off is next to impossible. For the solitaire, I purchased the magnetic sun shades. It's a sweet combination.

Well...hope this helps.

 

[RolandW]

Glad you're warming up to it. It's taken me some time as well. The fact that there is no adjustment for the distance between your eyes may be what's giving you double vision. I have to shift my glasses from time to time to realign and I can never see both sides of the screen 100% clearly...good enough, but not always readable for small print. I would like to have a mechanism to change that distance. I would also LOVE a diopter adjustment (like my SLRs have), so that I don't need to use reading glasses (could that be a software upgrade or would it need hardware to implement?) - Epson, think about how awesome that would be...if I could dial in a diopter value from a settings screen!

The thing that has taken the most time to get used to though, is the touch pad. In particular, how to touch it so that it does what you want and doesn't select things you don't want. I'm still not perfect, but here's what I've found:
1) Be firm. Don't get "soft-touchy" or it will read your finger as leaving the pad and coming back - and unintended selections occur. I have found a nice steady pressure works best
2) Scroll with "click and hold" rather than using two fingers. For most apps, you can tap and hold and then drag the screen up or down. I have found this results in far fewer false taps and is just easier to control, particularly if you don't want to let go of the controller. You have to wait until it registers the click (the circle fills) and then you can move it (again, firmly). For me, this is easier, particularly when it's mounted with the controller and I don't want to move my hands too much.

FYI: I purchased the Rochester enclosure (Solitaire) which, although is a royal PITA to attach to the glasses, really enhances the experience of using them. I don't know why they couldn't have designed an easier installation with simpler tolerances, but for FPV experience, movie watching, and Go 4 screen clarity, they're hard to beat. I'm leaving the Solitare mounted at all times, because putting them on and off is next to impossible. For the solitaire, I purchased the magnetic sun shades. It's a sweet combination.

Well...hope this helps.

Yes, it helps a lot, thank you. I'll have to try the single-finger scrolling method. Scrolling with two fingers is the worst part of using the touch pad. I'm scared to death to scroll menus in GO 4, thinking I might accidentally change a critical setting.

 

[KeithM]

When I first got the BT-300's, I found using the scroll pad to type almost impossible. I then paired a bluetooth keyboard which solved the "typing" issue. I next tried a bluetooth Apple Magic Mouse II and found it made scrolling and typing very easy. I no longer need the keyboard as it is very easy to type with the mouse. It's one more thing to carry around, but it does help considerably with the very awkward BT-300 scroll pad.

 

[RolandW]

When I first got the BT-300's, I found using the scroll pad to type almost impossible. I then paired a bluetooth keyboard which solved the "typing" issue. I next tried a bluetooth Apple Magic Mouse II and found it made scrolling and typing very easy. I no longer need the keyboard as it is very easy to type with the mouse. It's one more thing to carry around, but it does help considerably with the very awkward BT-300 scroll pad.

I wonder if my Logitech Bluetooth mouse that I use with my MacBook would work. I assume I'd have to pair it each time if I were using it on two devices?