My first run in with the law over my drone :(

[iaincaradoc]

I don’t know of any no-fly zones in the United States.

Disney properties? Groom Lake?

 

[Deleted member 114292]

Disney properties? Groom Lake?

In the case of Disney it’s a TFR. Even though it’s permanent.
I would imagine groom lake is a military restricted zone.
Go back and read the definition of a no-fly zone

 

[iaincaradoc]

In the case of Disney it’s a TFR. Even though it’s permanent.

...which meets the very definition of “no-fly zone.”

“...AS AMENDED BY SECTION 521 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-199. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B), THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL.”

i haven’t looked at it in a while, but there was some ruckus not long ago wherein Disney wanted to get an exception for their own drones to fly over the park. No idea how that turned out, though.

 

[Deleted member 114292]

...which meets the very definition of “no-fly zone.”

i haven’t looked at it in a while, but there was some ruckus not long ago wherein Disney wanted to get an exception for their own drones to fly over the park. No idea how that turned out, though.

You can call it a no-fly zone if you want but it certainly does not meet the definition.

No-fly zone - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[iaincaradoc]

You can call it a no-fly zone if you want but it certainly does not meet the definition.

No-fly zone - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It’s flagged as “National Defense Airspace.” I went back and added the relevant section of the NOTAM, just for clarity.

Which part of the definition isn’t met?

 

[wallyballs]

Im not sure I would hand over my ID to just any one. I understand you were being polite, but there can be some bad repercusstions from "some guy" taking pictures of you ID

 

[Deleted member 114292]

It’s flagged as “National Defense Airspace.” I went back and added the relevant section of the NOTAM, just for clarity.

Which part of the definition isn’t met?

No fly zone is imposed by one military against another military For tactical reasons.

 

[iaincaradoc]

No fly zone is imposed by one military against another military.

Not according to the definition you posted:

“A no-fly zone, or no-flight zone (NFZ), air exclusion zone (AEZ),[1] is a territory or area established by a military power over which certain aircraft are not permitted to fly.”

Says nothing about being imposed “against another military” - just “established by a military power” (which I’d argue is applicable to “The Government and Armed Forces of the United States of America) and prohibiting flight to certain (“certain” being quite broad in this application) aircraft in that defined area.

“Over” is debatable, since the zone in question is from the ground to 3000’, but I’d argue that “through” and “over” would be considered interchangeable in a legal sense by the mythical “reasonably prudent person.”

 

[Deleted member 114292]

Not according to the definition you posted:

“A no-fly zone, or no-flight zone (NFZ), air exclusion zone (AEZ),[1] is a territory or area established by a military power over which certain aircraft are not permitted to fly.”

Says nothing about being imposed “against another military” - just “established by a military power” (which I’d argue is applicable to “The Government and Armed Forces of the United States of America) and prohibiting flight to certain (“certain” being quite broad in this application) aircraft in that defined area.

“Over” is debatable, since the zone in question is from the ground to 3000’, but I’d argue that “through” and “over” would be considered interchangeable in a legal sense by the mythical “reasonably prudent person.”

OK so Call it a no-fly zone if you like.
I prefer to call these areas TFR’s controlled airspace and the like.
If you tell me it’s a no-fly zone I really have no idea what you mean by that at least in the United States

 

[Kamau54]

Whenever anyone approaches me like that, I immediately shut them down. I fly my drone correctly, and if anyone comes at me trying to tell me what I can or can't do, in no uncertain terms, I tell them to call the police, but to get out of my way because I take orders from no one.
I've learned in my short time as a drone pilot that most people are not bothered by drones. It's the one who are bored, disgruntled, lonely, or just plain ignorant of what we do, are the ones who like to try to cause problems. And the only way to deal with them is by being direct and unwavering.

 

[sar104]

Well that’s just the definition of a no-fly zone.
I don’t know of any no-fly zones in the United States.
Perhaps it would Behoove us to use the correct terminology

That would have been more helpful.

 

[sar104]

Not according to the definition you posted:

“A no-fly zone, or no-flight zone (NFZ), air exclusion zone (AEZ),[1] is a territory or area established by a military power over which certain aircraft are not permitted to fly.”

Says nothing about being imposed “against another military” - just “established by a military power” (which I’d argue is applicable to “The Government and Armed Forces of the United States of America) and prohibiting flight to certain (“certain” being quite broad in this application) aircraft in that defined area.

“Over” is debatable, since the zone in question is from the ground to 3000’, but I’d argue that “through” and “over” would be considered interchangeable in a legal sense by the mythical “reasonably prudent person.”

The point is that the term "no-fly zone" has no formal meaning in the US NAS. It's a colloquial term used to describe a variety of situations where it is not legal to fly a UAV without authorization, which may or may not be available. It's ambiguous at best.

 

[sar104]

...which meets the very definition of “no-fly zone.”

“...AS AMENDED BY SECTION 521 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-199. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B), THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL.”

i haven’t looked at it in a while, but there was some ruckus not long ago wherein Disney wanted to get an exception for their own drones to fly over the park. No idea how that turned out, though.

While it's not Disney's TFR (National Defense Airspace) there should be no problem getting authorization for official flights - aircraft or sUAS:

!FDC 4/3634 ZJX PART 2 OF 2 SPECIAL
THE RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN
CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES,
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT
OPERATIONS. FLIGHTS CONDUCTED FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES OF ANY DISNEY
WORLD EVENT AND VENUE ARE AUTHORIZED WITH AN APPROVED WAIVER.

 

[Deleted member 114292]

That would have been more helpful.

Thanks. That was my point just saying it's an NFZ does not really mean anything.

 

[RSDonovan]

So I got in a little trouble flying my drone today I was interested in taking some shots of the sports stadiums in Philly and I did until a man from the stadium came out telling me to “bring it down.” I obliged and he asked for my ID and took a picture of my license plate (I think he thought I was going to get in the car and drive off). I gave him my ID and asked him was I not allowed to fly here. He said that it was a no fly zone and I told him that on my app it tells me if I can’t fly and I didn’t know. I shut my drone down and apologized for flying. After a while I think he realized that i was literally just a person with a drone and not a spy for an opposing team and he started to lighten up. He told me the police were coming and a report would be made. After waiting 40 minutes, the police finally came. I simply told them I was flying my drone and didn’t know I couldn’t fly it and the cop said that it was just a warning and made a report. The supervisor from the stadium told me that he has to report it to his “higher ups” but he is unsure what happens after that.

Does anybody know anything about what may happen? Also, the DJI app didn’t give me any indication that it was a no fly zone so what can I do differently next time? Also, is there anything I can do if a situation like this occurs again?

Unless the stadium man was an LEO I can’t understand why you didn‘t just land your drone and go. Why did you give him your ID? Why did you explain what you were doing? Why did you wait 40 minutes for the police? Surely this guy had no authority over you? In the UK sports stadia are usually no-fly zones at the behest of the sports broadcasters who don’t want people to see sport for free. But it’s not the job of the stadia staff to enforce the NFZ

 

[Dennis_RV_Traveler]

You technically needed authorization from the FAA. Load and learn how to use Kittyhawk and LAANC.

 

[RussOnTheRoad]

Flying over a stadium is not in and of itself unlawful if I am correct. If there's a game going on then for certain venues you cannot. Here's what the FAA says about flying over stadiums.

Stadiums and Sporting Events

www.faa.gov

There are other considerations such as what class airspace you are in and from where you take off and land.

Putting a drone in the air is serious business as it may endanger others and cost lives if not done safely.
HTH

 

[Tim S]

So I got in a little trouble flying my drone today I was interested in taking some shots of the sports stadiums in Philly and I did until a man from the stadium came out telling me to “bring it down.” I obliged and he asked for my ID and took a picture of my license plate (I think he thought I was going to get in the car and drive off). I gave him my ID and asked him was I not allowed to fly here. He said that it was a no fly zone and I told him that on my app it tells me if I can’t fly and I didn’t know. I shut my drone down and apologized for flying. After a while I think he realized that i was literally just a person with a drone and not a spy for an opposing team and he started to lighten up. He told me the police were coming and a report would be made. After waiting 40 minutes, the police finally came. I simply told them I was flying my drone and didn’t know I couldn’t fly it and the cop said that it was just a warning and made a report. The supervisor from the stadium told me that he has to report it to his “higher ups” but he is unsure what happens after that.

Does anybody know anything about what may happen? Also, the DJI app didn’t give me any indication that it was a no fly zone so what can I do differently next time? Also, is there anything I can do if a situation like this occurs again?

Dont give your identification to anyone other than a uniformed law enforcement officer. You have no legal obligation to hand it to a citizen.

 

[Sky Angels]

I would check multiple apps, and go with the understanding that the FAA owns the airspace. If they don't want you taking off or landing from their property, that is different than flying over it.

The FAA doesn’t own anything! Americans own it!

 

[bcfd29]

You handled your encounter well; private property issues verus "free" airspace above will always result in conflict of some type. In this case the Linc is usually a secured air space when people are present for a game or event, however it is also likely that due to the popularity of the site (it's a philly thing) unless they controlled access it would be thick with others looking to do what you did.

It never hurts to ask for permission (have talked myself into a lot of places), if you want to go back again (not saying you will get it, but you could be surprised) especially since you handled yourself well and at least that security person will remember you as not being a nitwit.

It's a big city; PPD is too busy to worry about you so there may not even be an incident report written on this event. I would not be worried about any follow up.

As we look for cool places to fly, it is not only a matter of FAA regs but reasonableness that needs to be applied to the equation. THINK before you LAUNCH

I think there is a fairly active local group in philly that flies sites around the area, you might wish to try and connect with them. One of the guys on here posts a lot and has some amazing downtown shots, keep your eye out for him...