SmilingOgre
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of when Hank Johnson was worried that Guam would capsize.
New Bill Introduced Banning DJI In US is Serious - With FCC Punch
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SmilingOgre
Well-Known Member
This is where my thoughts are. More worthless rhetoric like "tic toc with wings". It's always wise to watch the political winds as they shift back and forth but the media coverage is annoying. "Oh look they are going to take away your drones! Buy skin cream. Give us your money!"
If owning a DJI is causing you this much distress, it might be best to return it.
"
Vic, you understand where I am coming from when you wrote "The real danger is if this is added to the Countering CCP Drone Act, or the 2023 FAA Reauthorization Act. That's where we truly need to be vigilant.". Thank you. That is my whole point and my grave concern as well. If the FCC says "NO", it's No.
I honestly don't see this going anywhere at the FCC level. Carr is a political appointee, and the last high level leftover from the previous administration. He doesn't have the political clout to do this unilaterally. That's why it's now in Congress. At least preliminarily.
So yeah, we need to watch it, but it's very unlikely to go anywhere. Too many Congress folks understand the implications of absolutely decimating a multi-billion dollar industry with the stroke of a pen.
But if it is snuck into on of those bills, we'll need to make sure it doesn't leave Mark Up with it attached.
Moldorf, thanks for the feedback.
(1) If someone takes the time to respond to a Thread I started I am going to do my best to respond. To not do so would be, IMHO, rude.
(2) As Vic Moss pointed out and what I am conveying is simply what he wrote: "The real danger is if this is added to the Countering CCP Drone Act, or the 2023 FAA Reauthorization Act. That's where we truly need to be vigilant.". Reread that and then read the initial two links I put when I now regrettably started this Topic. Pay particular attention to the 'Countering CCP Drone Act'.
There's no conjecture. If the FCC puts a Ban in place, it's game over unless current Drones are Grandfathered and I cannot find that stated. I would imagine and hope they would be. For instance, in Massachusetts you cannot have large capacity Magazines for your firearm unless they are Pre-Ban (manufactured prior to 13-SEP-94).
Do as you will, but I am not going to bury my head in the sand on this. The threat here is the FCC and the authors of the Bill know that. If someone wants to violate what they put in place that's up to them. But I've had many many years of experience with DARPA and D.O.D. to know that you do not play hardball with these Agencies.
Again, thanks for your input!
- Lyman
It's not a GEO Fencing issue. If the FCC bans use of frequencies (highly unlikely) that will ground ALL drones that fly under the frequency if they are Chinese made. That means 90% of all drones in the US will be grounded. That's the issue. However unlikely that will be.
I'm angry. I found a vocation that I thought I could really enjoy. I am on Social InSecurity so it was a big expense and now this DJI issue rears it's head. I'm unsure what to do but with that said it would take forever for this to be passed into Law.....
Frustrating.
SmilingOgre
Well-Known Member
Yes it's frustrating. Most everything gooberment does is frustrating. I own firearms. I vape. I fly drones. I'm constantly being threatened by the gooberment to change my ways. Take a breath. Enjoy your drone. Tomorrow is never guarantied. The alternative is to donate your entire savings to the Elise and Mikey "Stop the Chinese World Takeover" foundation. The only way to ensure you won't end up wearing funny hats, living in a cave and eating bats.
Clearly you are very upset. If a hobby is upsetting and making you angry so soon after starting.... perhaps it's best to find a different hobby. My opinion only, but I'd say we (meaning UAV pilots as a whole...) are much more likely to lose our aircraft due to a flyaway/crash (whether due to flying recklessly, pilot error, bird strike, water damage, other equipment malfunction, etc) than lose it due to the FCC removing it's approval from already approved communications equipment.
No reply neccessary.
Again another lawmaker that has no clue and wants to profile a company.
Let's think about this for a minute.. referring to consumer drone sales vs government sales.
- Drones don't spy.. Pilot spy. Even if DJI was sending 100% of all your data from your drone back to China (Flight Logs can already by sync'd with DJI via the APP) how many of those logs are actually from someone in a no fly zone (Which are Geolocked in most cases) or even flying in a restricted airspace that's not geolocked? If you fly ANY drone over a no fly military zone you're likely to be shot down.
- Along with the above... you're a drone manufacture.. so you spend the money to equip millions of drones to send data back to your servers with the hopes that someone randomly flies into a restricted area and you can gather some data? You're more likely to send in someone with a custom drone to do that for you.
- So you eliminate DJI completely from US airspace... Autel or someone comes in and grabs that market share. Does the supposed spying stop? Absolutely not! Again pilots do the spying and it's the pilot that can download the data and put it on the dark web somewhere.
- Best way to stop this is to start forming groups to write letters to your senators and congressmen (or whomever you have in your part of the world) and help them see the light.
- As a side note... the article mentions that DJI drones can be flown with encrypted data or even with no internet connection.... again.. it's the pilot who spies and it's the pilot that will fly with no internet connection over a restricted area then manually pull the data and send it where it needs to go... Not the drone.
Let's think about this for a minute.. referring to consumer drone sales vs government sales.
- Drones don't spy.. Pilot spy. Even if DJI was sending 100% of all your data from your drone back to China (Flight Logs can already by sync'd with DJI via the APP) how many of those logs are actually from someone in a no fly zone (Which are Geolocked in most cases) or even flying in a restricted airspace that's not geolocked? If you fly ANY drone over a no fly military zone you're likely to be shot down.
- Along with the above... you're a drone manufacture.. so you spend the money to equip millions of drones to send data back to your servers with the hopes that someone randomly flies into a restricted area and you can gather some data? You're more likely to send in someone with a custom drone to do that for you.
- So you eliminate DJI completely from US airspace... Autel or someone comes in and grabs that market share. Does the supposed spying stop? Absolutely not! Again pilots do the spying and it's the pilot that can download the data and put it on the dark web somewhere.
- Best way to stop this is to start forming groups to write letters to your senators and congressmen (or whomever you have in your part of the world) and help them see the light.
- As a side note... the article mentions that DJI drones can be flown with encrypted data or even with no internet connection.... again.. it's the pilot who spies and it's the pilot that will fly with no internet connection over a restricted area then manually pull the data and send it where it needs to go... Not the drone.
as I said, you may be right; you seem to believe you are by how you have posted in this thread. But saying that somebody approaching this news from a different angle than you has their "head in the sand" isn't advancing discussion at all
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now, while I know that quite often Congress engages in nonsense, and sometimes actually passes nonsense, there are things about this particular story that seem actually dumber than nonsense. For instance:
“DJI drones pose the national security threat of TikTok, but with wings,” Stefanik warned. “The possibility that DJI drones could be equipped to send live imagery of military installations, critical infrastructure, and the personal lives of American citizens to China poses too great a threat. Allowing this practice to continue in the U.S. is playing with fire. This Chinese-controlled company cannot be allowed to continue to operate in the U.S.”
without getting into the MAGA politics of Stefanik, what she said there kind of boggles the mind. I have a direct connection to my drone(s), an engineered connection by the way, and can lose transmission signal at a half-mile distance of separation. Yet, this same drone can somehow send a signal several thousand miles away to China? Or somehow be secretly equipped to blast detailed data to spy satellites passing 200-500 miles overhead? Or 25,000 miles to spy satellites in geo-synchronous orbit?
or will the USA be filled with thousands of secret Chinese spies whose job it is to simply wait around and intercept signals from hobbyists flying their drones and taking pictures of waterfalls, red barns, and autumn leaves?
and speaking of those spy satellites, is there really anything extra to be learned from drones that can't be leaned from the millions of images those satellites take. And as far as military installations, isn't it already a felony to fly a drone over a military installation?
there's a strong odor of mendacity with this bill
I do know this, just because a bill is proposed in a committee doesn't mean it will pass out of committee, as is, than pass the House, then survive conference committee's write-ups with the Senate, then pass the Senate, then re-confirmed with any changes by the House, then be signed into law, then survive any legal challenge. And if it is actually involved in enforcement, the FCC will have the latitude to interpret the intent, and enforce according to their interpretation
there is a long rocky road between now and when DJI drone owners have to retire their drones and it seems this thread has a chicken-little quality
SmilingOgre
Well-Known Member
Nobody gets it. This is Red Dawn 2! Go ahead and sweep this under the rug. China has been boring holes in the earth for millennia preparing for this. Their DJI spy drones will signal the right moment. Like moles they will pop out of the ground in your back yard and foo on you!!! While we're busy sweeping the skies for possible attacks they are right under our feet!
Droning on and on...
Well-Known Member
I'm about as libertarian as they get, but that presents no conflict with National Security. You seem to disbelieve there is an issue as has been claimed by the fed gov again and again... do you think there is no valid concern?
I'm asking because I want to understand your viewpoint. Nothing agenda driven – just want to understand your thinking to add to my own.
Hypothetical: Suppose you were presented with evidence 100% convincing to you that China, through covert design features was using DJI drones to gather valuable Intel to undermine US economy, military Intel, etc.
What measures, if any, would you support to counter this?
For the record, I don't think there's anything like this in DJI drones. OTOH, I do think the CCCP has access to all the data on DJI servers from all our collective flights, probably imagery that we don't know was sent, etc.
It's already there... of course they're mining it!
Yes and no. With two states already publically voting on bills to ban DJI drones from governement sales and several other States also drafting bills it won't take long before the federal government has enough support to have a Nationwide ban. There will be enough "Karen" types out there that will introduce bills to ban consumer level drones after that.
LOL...ok....we have now traveled from the possibility that the federal government could expand sales restrictions to government on new DJI drones--->banning new DJI drones to consumers--->banning new DJI drones AND all existing DJI drones owned by consumers--->banning the use of all consumer level drones
tin foil on line 1
Droning on and on...
Well-Known Member
Not defending Stefanik in any way, you have run so far down the wrong path on this you've blinded yourself to the obvious: The DJI system already gathers valuable Intel from millions of users and their flights simply by being connected to the internet the vast majority of the time through a cell phone being used to operate the flight.
We even voluntarily send a lot of details about our flights back to their servers. There's video in the cache... depending on the GPS location of the flight, they might be grabbing video in the background while you're ordering pizza on the way home.
The flight record data can reveal all sorts of valuable things with deep mining.
I don't know that they are, but given we're talking China, I'm not confident they're not.
Ever notice that both GO4 and Fly run continuously in the background on your phone? Why? What possible activity is taking placec on your phone when you're not flying?
I don't know, probably nothing. But the situation is hardly a trustworthy one.
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