New Bill Introduced Banning DJI In US is Serious - With FCC Punch

[FlyinBrian92]

I understand the concern by the government with the potential to use the drones for espionage purposes. That being said, has anyone proved that DJI is selling/transferring/sending any data captured by the DJI drones to the CCP? Did I miss a news article on that? If they are sending the data to a potential threat then we should all be worried.

 

[moldorf]

The flight record data can reveal all sorts of valuable things with deep mining.

I don't know that they are, but given we're talking China, I'm not confident they're not.

what do you think flight data can reveal that satellite imagery can't?

 

[Reginald E Johnson]

The second article is a total US Gov't break with DJI with an FCC ban. While the article clearly states a ban on use by the US Government and it's Contractors, a side punch is added with "...and prohibit the FCC from authorizing its equipment.". That's me, you, and John Doe next door. Whether existing DJI drones would be Grandfathered is not stated. But parts, et al., could no longer be had if this new Bill passes Congress.

Having just purchased a Mini 3 Pro and RC Controller I really don't want to find myself stuck with a paperweight.

Arkansas the Latest State to Implement DJI Drone Ban

More Disturbing:

House Republicans Take Aim at DJI Drones

It’ll be fine if they refund my money! Skydio 2 Drones don’t fly at night and their range is not that great!

 

[Droning on and on...]

what do you think flight data can reveal that satellite imagery can't?

Patterns.

Expand your thinking. Imagery is not the only valuable Intel.

Further, Intel on the government and military is not the only targets. Expand your thinking to undermining a country, including it's citizens.

 

[MS Coast]

Patterns.

Expand your thinking. Imagery is not the only valuable Intel.

Further, Intel on the government and military is not the only targets. Expand your thinking to undermining a country, including it's citizens.

If you're talking about human behavioral patterns, drones are a very, very distant second to cellphones as a source of intel (lower case) for those with bad intentions.

• Most people have them on their person or by the bed for 24 hours/day, every day.
• Most cellphone users leave position reporting switched on.
• The number of cell phones eclipses the number of drones as data sources.
• Drones offer a reduced spectrum of data - little data at night, during bad weather, in dense urban areas, in large groups of people, ...

 

[eljimb0]

They are black plastic, they have no legitimate use for hunting, they are bought and sold at garage sales, almost anyone can get as many as they want..you know the rest.

 

[Droning on and on...]

If you're talking about human behavioral patterns, drones are a very, very distant second to cellphones as a source of intel (lower case) for those with bad intentions.

• Most people have them on their person or by the bed for 24 hours/day, every day.
• Most cellphone users leave position reporting switched on.
• The number of cell phones eclipses the number of drones as data sources.
• Drones offer a reduced spectrum of data - little data at night, during bad weather, in dense urban areas, in large groups of people, ...

So?

 

[moldorf]

Patterns.

Expand your thinking. Imagery is not the only valuable Intel.

Further, Intel on the government and military is not the only targets. Expand your thinking to undermining a country, including it's citizens.

LOL....Intel about what? that's what I asked you before. Traffic patterns? Fruit orchards? what?

exactly what "intel" can a drone provide that isn't readily available thru satellites, cell phones, internet, human activity?

 

[Droning on and on...]

LOL....Intel about what? that's what I asked you before. Traffic patterns? Fruit orchards? what?

exactly what "intel" can a drone provide that isn't readily available thru satellites, cell phones, internet, human activity?

I don't know.

But I'm not anywhere near as confident in my inability to imagine as you are.

Old enough to have seen this sort of naivete proven wrong more times than I can count.

I expect that a few dozen, let's say, signals intelligence professionals, working full-time thinking about it and experimenting with the data and, perhaps AI to do the deep mining, might come up with something. Maybe something good.

Maybe not.

Unlike you, I don't believe myself to be smarter than them about this. That's why you don't give data to people you don't trust, confident they can't misuse it against you because, with a few minutes pondering, you can't think of anything.

 

[MS Coast]

So?

So, drones are far down on the list of things to be concerned about as information sources to our enemies.

 

[MS Coast]

I don't know.

But I'm not anywhere near as confident in my inability to imagine as you are.

Old enough to have seen this sort of naivete proven wrong more times than I can count.

I expect that a few dozen, let's say, signals intelligence professionals, working full-time thinking about it and experimenting with the data and, perhaps AI to do the deep mining, might come up with something. Maybe something good.

Maybe not.

Unlike you, I don't believe myself to be smarter than them about this. That's why you don't give data to people you don't trust, confident they can't misuse it against you because, with a few minutes pondering, you can't think of anything.

Why so prickly?

You're suggesting that there's a concern, but offer no specifics.

And how about a few of the uncountable examples of how our sort of naivete has led to problems?

 

[Droning on and on...]

So, drones are far down on the list of things to be concerned about as information sources to our enemies.

Says you.

Apparently they're high enough on the list to be banned for government use, based on recommendation from US Intel agencies.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Patterns.

Expand your thinking. Imagery is not the only valuable Intel.

Further, Intel on the government and military is not the only targets. Expand your thinking to undermining a country, including it's citizens.

That's right! They can study our habits then launch propaganda campaigns to alter our thinking and perform social engineering! Oh wait, OooPs, that's what our gooberment does. Well, they will still do very bad things.

 

[moldorf]

Unlike you, I don't believe myself to be smarter than them about this.

just how is it you have determined I think I'm smarter than the Chinese?

all I'm doing is asking what data is it that drones could provide they can't get from other sources in better and more usable detail. You can't answer that question so you resort to implying I'm arrogant?

for instance, what is "flight log data" (which you mentioned) going to reveal to the Chinese military they don't already know?

 

[Droning on and on...]

Why so prickly?

Not prickly at all. I meant that as it reads.

Am I wrong that you can't imagine any serious risk? Seems to me you've all but said that verbatim. If I'm wrong, share your serious concerns, and I'll readily admit my error.

If you can't think of any meaningful risk, are you confident in that assessment? Seems like it to me.

Again, if I drew the wrong conclusions from what you wrote, say so.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Relax, guys. Let's agree to disagree.

I'm not confident enough in my inability to think up how this data might be used, after barely thinking about it, to be dismissive of the possibility.

You guys seem to have a different view, I think. When I try to describe what that opinion seems to be, you jump down my throat.

In any case, you have reasons for seeming unconcerned about this, maybe you'll share them?

 

[MS Coast]

Not prickly at all. I meant that as it reads.

Am I wrong that you can't imagine any serious risk? Seems to me you've all but said that verbatim. If I'm wrong, share your serious concerns, and I'll readily admit my error.

If you can't think of any meaningful risk, are you confident in that assessment? Seems like it to me.

Again, if I drew the wrong conclusions from what you wrote, say so.

So.

Prickly seems a fair assessment to me.

I don't see that anyone has jumped down your throat. I see only several polite questions from people curious about what patterns you're concerned about drones divulging inappropriately. You seem to have inappropriately taken those as categorical denials of all risk.

It's raining, so I'm unable to fly or do any of the outdoor chores and projects I have waiting. I'd hoped for some interesting exchange of ideas here, but failing that I'm off to other things.

 

[Droning on and on...]

all I'm doing is asking what data is it that drones could provide they can't get from other sources in better and more usable detail. You can't answer that question so you resort to implying I'm arrogant?

No, I don't think you're arrogant. Not at all!

That is all you're doing. That's fair. I assume there's a reason you're asking?

No, I can't answer the question. Really for two main reasons: First and foremost, I readily admit the Chinese intel operatives / agents are much much smarter than me about things like this. Second, I've given it very little thought.

For those reasons, I vest very little credibility in my assessment of this risk, and feel caution is justified given the proven bad actor we're talking about.

I applied the same assumptions and analysis to you (i.e. one ordinary Joe vs. Chinese intel, not thought about it much).

I'm sorry for that. I don't know anything about you, or how you've been involved in this issue, so my assumptions and conclusions were misplaced.

for instance, what is "flight log data" (which you mentioned) going to reveal to the Chinese military they don't already know?

Again, I don't know. Something else I don't know is if there's any other data being sent that might be useful that we aren't told about.

Again, however, I'm not a good source for the answer to these questions, for reasons stated above. I wouldn't expect anyone to rely on me for assessing the risk here.

I'm concerned for two reasons: US intel is concerned, enough that those with access to what they know have banned DJI drones for government use. Second, China is a bad actor, surveillance state, determined to displace the US on the world stage. It sure looks like they think they're running on a Biden Administration limiting clock.

So, I utterly lack confidence in my ability to judge the risk of DJI drones in consumer hands. I lack confidence that, just like you, I can't easily think how this data might be used against us, so there's little to no risk.

You seem, unlike me, confident.

 

[moldorf]

You seem, unlike me, confident.

you're confusing confidence with skepticism

I quoted the congresswoman who proposed this bill. What she said didn't make any sense. What I perceive as her motivations make more sense, if I'm right, but then I'm familiar with this particular representative and the political shenanigans she tends to engage in

as far as the military and intelligence communities pushing for these sanctions, again I am somewhat skeptical of the reasons why. Is it from legitimate information they have, from speculative scenarios they have gamed, or from political pressure from other sources?

I remember when they were all saying Iraq had WMD's

I know I'm not just going to blindly trust the noise that comes out of Washington DC

 

[Zbip57]

Can anyone provide even a single concrete example of how a Chinese-made DJI consumer drone, in comparison to any similar drone made by any other country, presents a threat to national security?

For example, if I'm flying on some government critical mission and DJI implements a sudden new geozone restriction preventing my drone from taking off, that might be a problem. But surely if it's actually a critical mission, someone would have anticipated such a scenario and taken precautions to prevent that interference.

What possible national security threat is presented by me just flying my drone for fun at the cottage?

I'm not talking about the possibility of using my drone to spy through your bedroom windows, or to spy on your daughters sunbathing next to your backyard pool, or even using it to drop grenades on Russian tanks. If someone is intent on doing any of that, then any other available consumer drone will do just as well.

If you're worried your cellphone communicates with China every time you fly your DJI drone, just use a cheap dedicated phone instead with no internet connection.

Your cellphone represents far more of a threat of covert data collection.