New FAA Guidance for Recreational Flyers

[pilotinstitute]

This topic seems to have gone somewhat unnoticed over the last few days but the FAA has posted an updated version of the Recreational Flyer advisory circular (AC 91.57). The draft document is 91.57C (the current version is still 91.57B) and contains new guidelines from the FAA regarding CBO approval. A large portion of the document highlights the restrictions/guidelines that CBOs should include in their Safety Guidelines, which everyone will have to eventually follow in the upcoming months. The document is still a draft and the FAA has opened a comment period until August 9.
We made a detailed video that explains what those new guidelines are and how you can submit a comment to the FAA. This is a fairly important matter and many on this forum fly for recreational purposes, so be sure to voice your opinion. Here's a link to the video.

 

[brett8883]

This topic seems to have gone somewhat unnoticed over the last few days but the FAA has posted an updated version of the Recreational Flyer advisory circular (AC 91.57). The draft document is 91.57C (the current version is still 91.57B) and contains new guidelines from the FAA regarding CBO approval. A large portion of the document highlights the restrictions/guidelines that CBOs should include in their Safety Guidelines, which everyone will have to eventually follow in the upcoming months. The document is still a draft and the FAA has opened a comment period until August 9.
We made a detailed video that explains what those new guidelines are and how you can submit a comment to the FAA. This is a fairly important matter and many on this forum fly for recreational purposes, so be sure to voice your opinion. Here's a link to the video.

Can you link to the document please?

There’s no AC 91.57C in the AC database

 

[pilotinstitute]

Can you link to the document please?

There’s no AC 91.57C in the AC database

Link to the Advisory Circular main page: Flight Standards Service – Draft Advisory Circulars (ACs) Open for Comment
Link to AC 91.57C: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/media/afx/AC_91-57C_Coord_Copy.pdf
Link to Comment Document: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/media/afx/AC_91-57C_CF.docx

 

[brett8883]

Link to the Advisory Circular main page: Flight Standards Service – Draft Advisory Circulars (ACs) Open for Comment
Link to AC 91.57C: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/media/afx/AC_91-57C_Coord_Copy.pdf
Link to Comment Document: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/media/afx/AC_91-57C_CF.docx

Got it thanks

 

[maggior]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[spudster]

Thanks for the info. I read through it mostly but have a question that I didn't see answered.

How granular are the CBOs going to be? Will it be as nationwide as the AMA or could each city or county group(s) have their own CBO?

If each city/county could have their own that means that there will different rules from one area to the next. If you travel from one area to another, which CBO rules need to be followed?

 

[Chaosrider]

This topic seems to have gone somewhat unnoticed over the last few days but the FAA has posted an updated version of the Recreational Flyer advisory circular (AC 91.57). The draft document is 91.57C (the current version is still 91.57B) and contains new guidelines from the FAA regarding CBO approval. A large portion of the document highlights the restrictions/guidelines that CBOs should include in their Safety Guidelines, which everyone will have to eventually follow in the upcoming months. The document is still a draft and the FAA has opened a comment period until August 9.
We made a detailed video that explains what those new guidelines are and how you can submit a comment to the FAA. This is a fairly important matter and many on this forum fly for recreational purposes, so be sure to voice your opinion. Here's a link to the video.

Excellent video, extremely informative. I hardly ever subscribe to anything on YouTube, but I just subscribed to you!

There's one particular thing that I've found confusing, that I think you cleared up for me. The whole CBO thing doesn't apply to people flying 107, right?

Thank you!!

TCS

 

[brett8883]

Thanks for the info. I read through it mostly but have a question that I didn't see answered.

How granular are the CBOs going to be? Will it be as nationwide as the AMA or could each city or county group(s) have their own CBO?

If each city/county could have their own that means that there will different rules from one area to the next. If you travel from one area to another, which CBO rules need to be followed?

Wherever you are you just have to follow one set of rules so it’s not like you go to a new place and the rules change. You basically just have to be able to articulate which rules you are following.

 

[spudster]

Wherever you are you just have to follow one set of rules so it’s not like you go to a new place and the rules change. You basically just have to be able to articulate which rules you are following.

So you are saying that if you are flying in an area that the CBO restrictions (you may or may not know this) are more strict then your "home" CBO that you don't need to follow local CBO rules? To articulate the rules we are following will we need to carry a copy of these rules when we travel so we can "prove" we are flying under "our" CBO rules?

Since the FAA is just giving "recommendations" for CBO rules I guess someone could go "CBO shopping" to find the one with the most lenient rules and claim they only have to follow them.

I'm not knocking the idea behind having CBO rules as the FAA is trying to recognize that not all areas in the US are the same. What may be proper and safe in the middle of the desert in AZ may be completely different in the Chicago suburbs. Just that I can see some issues when each CBO has different rules.

 

[pilotinstitute]

Thanks for the info. I read through it mostly but have a question that I didn't see answered.

How granular are the CBOs going to be? Will it be as nationwide as the AMA or could each city or county group(s) have their own CBO?

If each city/county could have their own that means that there will different rules from one area to the next. If you travel from one area to another, which CBO rules need to be followed?

CBO guidelines will be nationwide for the CBO. Each CBO will have one set of guidelines that they will share with the public. I don't see the FAA approving small CBOs locally, I don't think that's the purpose of this. My guess is that we will see 4-5 CBOs total: AMA, Flite Test Community Association, FPV Freedom Coallition, and a few more.

 

[pilotinstitute]

Excellent video, extremely informative. I hardly ever subscribe to anything on YouTube, but I just subscribed to you!

There's one particular thing that I've found confusing, that I think you cleared up for me. The whole CBO thing doesn't apply to people flying 107, right?

Thank you!!

TCS

Correct. The concept of CBO is only for recreational flying.

 

[pilotinstitute]

So you are saying that if you are flying in an area that the CBO restrictions (you may or may not know this) are more strict then your "home" CBO that you don't need to follow local CBO rules? To articulate the rules we are following will we need to carry a copy of these rules when we travel so we can "prove" we are flying under "our" CBO rules?

Since the FAA is just giving "recommendations" for CBO rules I guess someone could go "CBO shopping" to find the one with the most lenient rules and claim they only have to follow them.

I'm not knocking the idea behind having CBO rules as the FAA is trying to recognize that not all areas in the US are the same. What may be proper and safe in the middle of the desert in AZ may be completely different in the Chicago suburbs. Just that I can see some issues when each CBO has different rules.

You will definitely be able to choose which CBO works best for you, print their guidelines, and keep them in your bag so you can say: "This is who I'm following". The idea with having several CBOs is that there is different types of flying out there. Someone who flies RC will find better guidelines with a certain CBO while someone who flies FPV may have better luck with another set of guidelines.

 

[brett8883]

So you are saying that if you are flying in an area that the CBO restrictions (you may or may not know this) are more strict then your "home" CBO that you don't need to follow local CBO rules? To articulate the rules we are following will we need to carry a copy of these rules when we travel so we can "prove" we are flying under "our" CBO rules?

Since the FAA is just giving "recommendations" for CBO rules I guess someone could go "CBO shopping" to find the one with the most lenient rules and claim they only have to follow them.

That can and will happen.

I'm not knocking the idea behind having CBO rules as the FAA is trying to recognize that not all areas in the US are the same. What may be proper and safe in the middle of the desert in AZ may be completely different in the Chicago suburbs. Just that I can see some issues when each CBO has different rules.

CBOs aren’t limited by region. I might use the fictional Salt Lake City Drone Club CBO rules and if I go to Maine I can still follow the Salt Lake City Drone Club CBO rules. Also someone from Maine is welcome to use the Salt Lake City Drone Club CBO rules in Maine as well. You might have regional CBOs that cater to members in that region but the rules aren’t regional

 

[brett8883]

We knew this was coming but what upsets me is the FAA “recommending”


CBOs have these new rules to gain CBO recognition. This is extortion plain and simple and not at all in the spirit of the law signed by Congress.

Congress already set out the universal rules that everybody must follow. It was suppose to be up to the CBOs to determine what further rules they deem necessary. The FAA is just using the CBO recognition process to wield unlimited power over recreational pilots. The FAA has turned the CBO requirement into a farce.

 

[pilotinstitute]

We knew this was coming but what upsets me is the FAA “recommending”
View attachment 131951

CBOs have these new rules to gain CBO recognition. This is extortion plain and simple and not at all in the spirit of the law signed by Congress.

Congress already set out the universal rules that everybody must follow. It was suppose to be up to the CBOs to determine what further rules they deem necessary. The FAA is just using the CBO recognition process to wield unlimited power over recreational pilots. The FAA has turned the CBO requirement into a farce.

Yep, nailed it.

 

[sar104]

Yep, nailed it.

Really? It appears to me that the FAA is precisely following the requirements and path laid out in §44809 (a), (b), (d), (e), (h) and (i).

 

[vindibona1]

How much of this will apply to Part 107 pilots?
It also appears that CBO designation might conflict with already existing local law. The State of Illinois deems itself the sole arbiter of drone laws in the state, with the exception of cities with populations of over 1 million people (Chicago only in this state). So, if the state law over-rides any local ordinance, would it not stand to reason that municipalities who apply to be CBO's even if accepted as such by the FAA would be illegal by state law?

IMO THIS IS GOING TO BECOME A CLUSTER(Mod Removed Language) WITH A SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM.

Think of the process of the reasonable UAV pilot today. We learn the FAA rules. We check airspace. We (already) check local ordniances. We then have to check big brother DJI for geofencing before flying anywhere. I can tell you from personal experience that some (many?) of our current local "CBO's" (municipalities and townships) haven't updated the books on their ordinances even though they have been stripped by state law. ...And then along comes Barney Fife.

 

[pilotinstitute]

Really? It appears to me that the FAA is precisely following the requirements and path laid out in §44809 (a), (b), (d), (e), (h) and (i).

The new guidelines are really about (d)(2). Everything else was already in place in the current AC 91.57B and known since 44809 came out.

 

[pilotinstitute]

How much of this will apply to Part 107 pilots?
It also appears that CBO designation might conflict with already existing local law. The State of Illinois deems itself the sole arbiter of drone laws in the state, with the exception of cities with populations of over 1 million people (Chicago only in this state). So, if the state law over-rides any local ordinance, would it not stand to reason that municipalities who apply to be CBO's even if accepted as such by the FAA would be illegal by state law?

IMO THIS IS GOING TO BECOME A CLUSTER**** WITH A SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM.

Think of the process of the reasonable UAV pilot today. We learn the FAA rules. We check airspace. We (already) check local ordniances. We then have to check big brother DJI for geofencing before flying anywhere. I can tell you from personal experience that some (many?) of our current local "CBO's" (municipalities and townships) haven't updated the books on their ordinances even though they have been stripped by state law. ...And then along comes Barney Fife.

None of it applies to 107, this is only for recreational flying.

 

[spudster]

CBO guidelines will be nationwide for the CBO. Each CBO will have one set of guidelines that they will share with the public. I don't see the FAA approving small CBOs locally, I don't think that's the purpose of this. My guess is that we will see 4-5 CBOs total: AMA, Flite Test Community Association, FPV Freedom Coallition, and a few more.

If that is the case and all CBOs will have the same guidelines then why even have them at all? Maybe I'm missing something?