New Jersey Drone Sightings May Not Be Drones. By Professor Will Austin.

[Chip]

You keep missing the point.

People are not alarmed by drones.

People are alarmed when they see a drone and the government is blind and can't see it. Or deny it. Or lie about it.
People are alarmed when their government tells them 50 lights in a group in the sky are 50 commercial planes trying to land at the airport 25 miles away at the same time so they can all make their tight schedules.
People are alarmed when the government sends a bunch of shills to flood the internet with fake pictures and pictures of obvious manned aircraft in an attempt to keep the narrative under control.
People are alarmed when the police can throw anyone in jail for apparently flying a drone last week in a place you shouldn't be flying and they never saw you fly the drone but police can't do anything about it when you are flying a drone directly on top of them or under them and they are looking directly at the drone but they can't arrest anybody.
People are alarmed when you say there's nothing here to see, it's your imagination, these are all manned drones and then you later start to change your tune and make up excuses for why some of the sightings are indeed drones but only after it is nearly impossible to do anything about it; just keep denying it until some goofy congressman starts talking about motherships and then we'll seize the conversation.

This has nothing to do with legal or illegal flight and everything to do with....for example, a drone flying over a military base and the military saying that's fine, no problem...we get this all the time. Or a drone doing circles around a critical infrastructure and the critical infrastructure people claiming they never saw that drone doing circles around their building. Sometimes Southwest Airlines cut thru here when they're in a hurry to beat the traffic and when they are early, they do circles here to shed off the time.

There is no mass hysteria or paranoia, you haven't see that yet. It's going to take someone getting hurt or someone getting killed or some significant property damage for their to be mass hysteria.

It's not illegal to fly a drone at night. We've told you what is illegal (without a wavier) for the most part:

1.Operating a drone in a careless or reckless manner near and around other manned aircraft or airport.
2.Operating a drone beyond visual line of sight.
3.Operating a drone above 400 feet AGL.
4.Operating a [recreational] drone in controlled airspace at night without LAANC.
5.Operating a drone without navigation lights.
6.Operating a drone without RID.
7.Operating a drone in restricted airspace or during a TFR such as over a military base.

The Philadelphia drone criminal is totally off the hook with the FAA as far as I'm concerned (that's another story).

Finally people are alarmed when the government seems to believe if you don't look up in the sky often and then one day you look up, you might not know what you are seeing. Kinda like if you live in Nebraska and you don't look off into the ocean, if you visit Florida and you look out to sea, you might not recognize the difference between a whale and a tanker.

I agree with all this. Although if it is the DOD's response to possible nuke or dirty bomb terrorist attack then it is the sum of all fears and all bets are off.

 

[AeroJ]

An "anything" zipping along at 55k at sea level would be flaming with ionized atmosphere in tow.

No no, he means up to FL 55,000 ft, not kph !.

 

[AMann]

I live in Schuyler county NY. I just watched one of these drones last night at about 9:30pm. It travelled south over Seneca lake and continued down the valley toward Elmira. I was too curious to think about getting a pic. It was similar in size to an ultralight maybe a hair longer. It travelled quite slowly. Just guessing maybe 20mph or so. I have flown my drones on the same path in the daylight so that’s my comparison. The sound was certainly large UAS. I am familiar with the big Agras rigs and it sounded similar but bigger. It had a white light on the front aimed toward the ground and red and green lights on the tail. It appeared to be well over 400’ above the ground below it but being I am up on the hill it was just over my line of sight so I was almost looking straight at it. It was less than 1/2 mile away from me. Not sure exact distance but I can still see my M100 from my house flying where the drone was.

So, I can tell you it was certainly some form of drone and not a manned aircraft. No one around here has drones that big other than the military that has a drone program based out of Syracuse NY. That is 90 miles away and if it was the military then it seems that someone might have a clue what is going on. But then again maybe they wouldn’t say……..

I know I am nervous about unknown UAS flying grids over our Nation in such a voliatile time.

Mike

If they’re flying grid patterns, then we all know what that means, and depending on what sensors they’re using it’s for whatever they’re looking for. I would think that the military and the rest of the government does not want to create all out panic if they are in fact looking for something very nefarious. I mean, what would they say, “we’re looking for a wayward nuke?” That would light off massive pandemonium. Even if they say “we’re spraying for lime ticks that only come out at night” I think public reactions and suspicion would get much worse than it already has. Probably best If they did say they don’t know anything about it and let the public keep speculating and posting ideas about it for a couple weeks. That way nobody gets too upset for a while and the RP’s get the time to complete whatever it is that they’re doing.

I wonder if any of those are in fact helicopters, or their large drones, carrying airborne sensors like this ground penetrating radar?

 

[mavic3usa]

for sure, if the government comes clean about their suspicions later on, even if they halfway explain they were just looking for something but we can't tell you what it is....that would be fine with me, until one day when they can actually talk about it. it's just too bad that our drone rights and privileges have to take a hit for this, the timing really sucks although I guess there is no good time for this; the events choose you, not the other way around. better in the winter where I can go find another hobby until things settle down.

 

[Chip]

Pres Elect comments:

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[tstr14]

Here's one that was brought down:

 

[Zbip57]

Look at you walking it back. "Ok, so if it's a drone...so what?"
You keep missing the point.

I'm not walking anything back.

People are alarmed when they see a drone and the government is blind [...]
People are alarmed when their government tells them 50 lights in a group in the sky are [...]
People are alarmed when you say there's nothing here to see, it's your imagination, [...]

My point was, airliners fly overhead all the time. Air traffic control ensures they're stacked line-astern on final approach with sufficient space between them to allow the landing plane sufficient time to clear the runway before the next one arrives to touch down. Other traffic may be joining the pattern on downwind, or base leg, or orbiting farther and higher in a racetrack holding pattern awaiting their turn.

Anyone living near an airport can see that every day in broad daylight. Nobody watching this ever comes away with bizarre theories about how all those planes must instead be Iranian drones, or military drones searching for missing nuclear bombs (sheesh).

Those same planes fly in the same patterns at night, with the required flashing strobe lights and navigation lights mandated by the FAA. But, instead of seeing them as the same normal airliners, suddenly everybody is reporting seeing "drones" flying in patterns, and they're coming up with all sorts of bizarre ridiculous explanations and conspiracy theories.

Forget your "people are alarmed" proclamations. You should be more alarmed that your supposedly reputable news media outlets are reporting swarms of drones 10-20ft in size, while showing video of what is clearly a normal full-sized airliner!

Suddenly every flashing light, or "glowing orb", must be a drone.

Show me some actual videos, with documented time and location, of genuine drone sightings showing swarms of fifty SUV-sized drones! They don't exist. It's always a picture of some blurry, shaky, blob of light, that doesn't show anything conclusively identifiable as a drone.

 

[Chip]

I'm not walking anything back...

Show me some actual videos, with documented time and location, of genuine drone sightings showing swarms of fifty SUV-sized drones! They don't exist. It's always a picture of some blurry, shaky, blob of light, that doesn't show anything conclusively identifiable as a drone.

I would not use that same phrase "walking back." But I would say respectfully you are escalating your expectation/demand for evidence from beginning with one clear photo of one drone to "documented time and location, of genuine drone sightings showing swarms of fifty SUV-sized drones." I have no doubt there has been overreporting and mistaken reporting. But I have seen and heard way too many eyewitness reports from NJ state and local officials to blow them all off. Moreover, the overreporting/mistaken reporting is a part of the Operation which works in favor of the government and is most easily manipulated.

 

[mavic3usa]

I'm not walking anything back.



My point was, airliners fly overhead all the time. Air traffic control ensures they're stacked line-astern on final approach with sufficient space between them to allow the landing plane sufficient time to clear the runway before the next one arrives to touch down. Other traffic may be joining the pattern on downwind, or base leg, or orbiting farther and higher in a racetrack holding pattern awaiting their turn.

Anyone living near an airport can see that every day in broad daylight. Nobody watching this ever comes away with bizarre theories about how all those planes must instead be Iranian drones, or military drones searching for missing nuclear bombs (sheesh).

Those same planes fly in the same patterns at night, with the required flashing strobe lights and navigation lights mandated by the FAA. But, instead of seeing them as the same normal airliners, suddenly everybody is reporting seeing "drones" flying in patterns, and they're coming up with all sorts of bizarre ridiculous explanations and conspiracy theories.

Forget your "people are alarmed" proclamations. You should be more alarmed that your supposedly reputable news media outlets are reporting swarms of drones 10-20ft in size, while showing video of what is clearly a normal full-sized airliner!

Suddenly every flashing light, or "glowing orb", must be a drone.

Show me some actual videos, with documented time and location, of genuine drone sightings showing swarms of fifty SUV-sized drones! They don't exist. It's always a picture of some blurry, shaky, blob of light, that doesn't show anything conclusively identifiable as a drone.

it's ok if you want to walk back your comments, I'm all for it as long as we can get on the same page and figure out where to go from here. Perhaps you are waiting for the government to go first and I have already let you know they have started to do so; feel free to "soften" your stance little by little and the best way to do that is "of course it's not 100% drones but the few that aren't are indeed just commercial and hobby drones flyers mixed in there but they're milling about looking for and curious about ufos just coming out to join in on the fun and the pranks." if you need another week or two, that's fine...but don't take too long; the longer it takes the more damage done. Early on it was an unequivocal "there are no drones up there."

The fancy detection equipment is being put into place as we speak so we'll see.

 

[Droning on and on...]

If they’re flying grid patterns, then we all know what that means,

Yes we do! Terrorist orthographic mapping!

Oh the humanity!!!

 

[Droning on and on...]

Here's one that was brought down:

View attachment 179818

Ahhhhh, the Outback Steakhouse 470. That's a powerful drone.

50 of them flying a coordinated grid pattern can bring the temperature down 30°F over a ten mile square area.

Hmmm... could this be a Secret Santa project to bring a white christmas to the area, and the feds have been ordered not to give away the secret?

 

[Zbip57]

it's ok if you want to walk back your comments[...] feel free to "soften" your stance little by little [...]

Here's what I said;

If you recognize what is obviously an everyday normal aircraft, you don't immediately jump to the conclusion that it's up to some sort of nefarious business. If instead you conclude that same light in the sky must be a drone, why does that suddenly mean there's a Martian invasion or an Iranian mothership operating on the ocean?

Even if it conclusively is a drone, why is that cause for mass hysteria and paranoia? It's not illegal to fly a drone at night.

Let me explain that to you.

Airplanes fly in our skies every day. Other than chem-trail nuts, nobody panics and says they must be Martians or Iranians or covert Military survey operations looking for lost nuclear bombs. They're just normal everyday aircraft going about their daily business.

Airplanes also fly in our skies at night. They have all the required navigation marker lights, and flashing strobe lights. If you show me a photo or a video, blurry or not, of steady red/green/white marker lights and red/white flashing strobe lights and bright white landing lights, absent any conclusive evidence to prove it's something else, I'm going to assume it's just another perfectly normal obvious airplane going about its nightly business.

Why does it have to be drone?

Every photo and video I've seen online always shows the same thing. Why are people claiming these are SUV-sized Iranian or Martian drones? Where's the evidence pointing to that conclusion? It's always the same shots of the same blinking lights in the sky that look like perfectly normal aircraft.

I'm not denying that drones exist. I own several of them myself. The lights on my drones bear no resemblance whatsoever to those of the common manned aircraft shown on every news clip. I could fly my drone at night in my backyard, and post a photo claiming the clearest evidence yet, "Look, here's proof, it's a drone hovering in my backyard!!!"

But why should that lead to mass hysteria and endless coverage everywhere. It's merely my drone in my own backyard. There's nothing illegal or controversial about that. Drones exist, and are legally allowed to be flown at night. Why the panic?

I would say respectfully you are escalating your expectation/demand for evidence from beginning with one clear photo of one drone to "documented time and location, of genuine drone sightings showing swarms of fifty SUV-sized drones."

I mean not a staged photo of my own DJI Phantom hovering in my own backyard. What started all this nonsense? Where are actual photos and videos documenting 50 SUV-sized 20-foot drones creating a national crisis by supposedly invading Trump's stupid golf course?

The only "evidence" anyone has produced is either hearsay of "eyewitness" reports from people who've never seen an aircraft at night before, or grainy video footage of blinking lights which are MUCH more likely to be normal aircraft than mysterious drones.

I have no doubt there has been overreporting and mistaken reporting. But I have seen and heard way too many eyewitness reports from NJ state and local officials to blow them all off.

It doesn't count as "evidence" if somebody's uncle's sister's nephew's dog-sitter, or even some elected official, posts an opinion on Twitter swearing they saw 50 barn-sized elephants flying out of the ocean.

 

[Chip]

@Zbip57 I get it. We should be very careful about jumping to conclusions based on photos and videos which may not meet desired quality standards. But no sense to get angry or frustrated over it. This is not a court of law and others control access to the truth for now.

 

[mavic3usa]

Here's what I said;

Let me explain that to you.

Airplanes fly in our skies every day. Other than chem-trail nuts, nobody panics and says they must be Martians or Iranians or covert Military survey operations looking for lost nuclear bombs. They're just normal everyday aircraft going about their daily business.

Airplanes also fly in our skies at night. They have all the required navigation marker lights, and flashing strobe lights. If you show me a photo or a video, blurry or not, of steady red/green/white marker lights and red/white flashing strobe lights and bright white landing lights, absent any conclusive evidence to prove it's something else, I'm going to assume it's just another perfectly normal obvious airplane going about its nightly business.

Why does it have to be drone?

Every photo and video I've seen online always shows the same thing. Why are people claiming these are SUV-sized Iranian or Martian drones? Where's the evidence pointing to that conclusion? It's always the same shots of the same blinking lights in the sky that look like perfectly normal aircraft.

I'm not denying that drones exist. I own several of them myself. The lights on my drones bear no resemblance whatsoever to those of the common manned aircraft shown on every news clip. I could fly my drone at night in my backyard, and post a photo claiming the clearest evidence yet, "Look, here's proof, it's a drone hovering in my backyard!!!"

But why should that lead to mass hysteria and endless coverage everywhere. It's merely my drone in my own backyard. There's nothing illegal or controversial about that. Drones exist, and are legally allowed to be flown at night. Why the panic?


I mean not a staged photo of my own DJI Phantom hovering in my own backyard. What started all this nonsense? Where are actual photos and videos documenting 50 SUV-sized 20-foot drones creating a national crisis by supposedly invading Trump's stupid golf course?

The only "evidence" anyone has produced is either hearsay of "eyewitness" reports from people who've never seen an aircraft at night before, or grainy video footage of blinking lights which are MUCH more likely to be normal aircraft than mysterious drones.



It doesn't count as "evidence" if somebody's uncle's sister's nephew's dog-sitter, or even some elected official, posts an opinion on Twitter swearing they saw 50 barn-sized elephants flying out of the ocean.

Let me know when you are done with mocking the lame arguments coming for the nut jobs on the internet and ready to discuss the serious concerns from the few people left who have real issues. I could care less what the photos or videos show, those will never make or break the discussion for the reasons you mentioned. I'm talking about the real argument. Let me know when you are ready please.

Sometimes I think you believe you are having an argument against people who believe in spaceships and aliens and flying saucers and Iranians and are trying to prove these exist. I don't agree with any other that nonsense and I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. Perhaps it dominates the news and it fun to debate it which is cool but eventually one day, we have to get serious and answer the hard questions. Let me know if that's today or tomorrow when you ready to get serious and stop talking about busses and suvs and motherships nonsense off twitter and foxiness and the interwebs. That's fine if it dominates 95% of the news, I'm not here to defend the fake news. But I get it if you're not ready to switch gears, sometimes it feels good to continue to mock the crazies so you don't have to address the hard questions. If I didn't have answers, I would keep referencing the moon and the stars and the martians, too.

 

[Meta4]

Pres Elect comments:

A reality-challenged person who lies like other people breathe isn't a credible source for information about anything.

 

[Chip]

A reality-challenged person who lies like other people breathe isn't a credible source for information about anything.

Please try and control your anger. This is how you get a thread locked.

 

[Meta4]

Please try and control your anger. This is how you get a thread locked.

No control needed.
Simply stating obvious facts isn't showing anger.

 

[eEridani]

"if it is this" then "If it is that" ... people see something they do not understand and then panic and call in the "authorities" who are somehow supposed to roll back time and visit when whatever is in the air is there so they can confirm or refute whatever was seen then report to the citizen exactly what it was.

Sigh. Then people start throwing hubcaps into the air or hanging trash can lids from power wires and phone lines tied to strings they then pull to show movement... today we have real drones that do even better. But with so many of the "drone" sightings easily shown to be commercial aircraft (even if you ignore the sound of the jet as it is passing overhead and only use the light patterns), why is mass hysteria always the result. Is paranoia that ingrained into most folk its unavoidable?

Then again, humans were raised in an environment where most things around could kill you: so paranoia probably saved lives. However, any "skill" left unused usually atrophies, especially if it requires critical thinking; and humans in social situations we have today haven't had to use paranoia to stay alive for hundreds of years.

 

[eEridani]

As a side note, 15,000 to 17,000 planes in the air (on average), and over a million registered private drones. And people are shocked when they look up in the sky at night and see lights. One person reports something, posts something, it goes viral for that paranoia reason, or just gullibility or even because it's fun to do and might get them more "likes" - then people start posting any lights they see as say they saw a drone and then conspiracies start, protests for why doesn't someone do something. Yet people seem to never stop to realize there is nothing to be seen in the first place. It really is just normal business as usual in the sky and this week is no different than last week or last month or last year.

Asking for negative proof of something - like Iranians are sending in drones - is an impossible task. Just like proving there are no UFO's. In all cases, it is up to the observer to make the proof they saw something or know something. It is NOT up to the audience to make they proof for them. If you want to prove there is a "pick your thing" then collect the evidence and prove. Quit asking everyone else to do it for you.

If you claim the airspace is not secure: prove it to the audience. Otherwise, the audience will continue to believe it is safe and secure. Especially when those in charge of said airspace also say it is safe and secure.

 

[Zbip57]

I get it. We should be very careful about jumping to conclusions based on photos and videos which may not meet desired quality standards.

If it's just a blurry light in the sky, there's no way to tell how far away it is, how big it is, or what it is. If you're convinced it's something other than a normal aircraft, provide just a few details. Details like, I was standing at this location here - X, the light was in the sky to the NorthWest, at this angle above the horizon, exact time, etc. Any factual details would help people figure out what you actually saw.

I just watched a video where some woman is recording a red light "hovering" high in the sky. You can see nothing but a fence and a red light in a black sky. So, take a shot from the same location and angle the next day in daylight, so we can at least exclude the possibility that it's just the marker light at the top of some tower. Why does every random light in a black sky automatically become labelled as a "drone"?

And more importantly, even if it is a drone, why does that suddenly mean the North Koreans or Iranians are hiding nuclear bombs in downtown New York? Really? Get a grip folks.

But no sense to get angry or frustrated over it. This is not a court of law and others control access to the truth for now.

I'm neither angry or frustrated. I'm baffled, and amused. Why are people so gullible and so easily led to swallowing nonsensical conspiracy theories? Everyone has eyes and a brain. What's up with this nonsense, "others control access to the truth"?

I run a dash-cam in my car. In daylight it records crisply detailed 4k video. Here's a short 1-minute sample documenting the flock of 20 aliens currently invading our neighbourhood. [Ignore that SUV-sized drone appearing at 25-secs.]

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At night, the dash-cam video quality isn't nearly as good.

If I'm following another vehicle at a distance on a long straight road, the video shows only two blurry red tail-lights "hovering" in the distance, not getting any closer or moving farther away. The lights appear to not be moving at all, just mysteriously "hovering" there in the distance ahead of me. Ergo, it can only be a "drone"! I can't tell for sure whether it's an Iranian drone, or North Korean drone, or even a whether it's one of them Military drones, but it can only be one of those mystery drones I've been hearing so much about.

Every now and then an extremely bright white light appears in the far distance right on the horizon. It's not moving either, just slowly getting larger. That's gotta be another "drone"! Suddenly it goes flashing right past me, narrowly missing my car!

Here's a screengrab from my dash-cam video captured just last night. This is definitely the "clearest image yet captured of one of these mystery UFO drones"!

Some of you might jump to the obvious conclusion that this is just a normal car, but that just means you're naive in trusting whatever the mainstream media wants you to believe. Unless the Government proves to me this thing isn't up to some nefarious purpose, I'm convinced it's actually a spy drone. People all across New Jersey have seen similar things and therefor we know that this is actually a hovering SUV-sized drone firing laser beams. This photo should be proof enough.