Poll: Restricted flight in Firmware .800

[Panhead55]

I have updated to the new firmware as Mavic Pro gave me a "must update" in order to fly. I am in a large metro area with lot's of major airports. I have not noticed any NFZ restrictions stopping me from entering a NFZ. My concern with all of this is what if you are 107 certified and have requested a waiver from the FAA to fly a commercial job in a NFZ and received approval? If the firmware restricts the flight and I have legal authority to enter the NFZ to do the assignment how do you turn off the NFZ feature? Again I have not yet had the problem but from what others are saying it could happen.

 

[Gary cato]

I have updated to the new firmware as Mavic Pro gave me a "must update" in order to fly. I am in a large metro area with lot's of major airports. I have not noticed any NFZ restrictions stopping me from entering a NFZ. My concern with all of this is what if you are 107 certified and have requested a waiver from the FAA to fly a commercial job in a NFZ and received approval? If the firmware restricts the flight and I have legal authority to enter the NFZ to do the assignment how do you turn off the NFZ feature? Again I have not yet had the problem but from what others are saying it could happen.

So you were FORCED to update to the new firmware? I did not think that this was a forced update for anyone outside of China. What FW were u using before?

 

[Panhead55]

Yes it told me if I did not update my flight would be restricted to so many meters hight and so many meters distance. I figured lets do the update and see what changed. I found nothing that changed so far.

 

[Pdxpaul]

I live in Staten Island NY, we have huge limit for flying. But it's still some areas to fly.
Yesterday I was flying over the lake, and software just showed me that I entered nfz
Without giving me a choice it start landing my drone directly into the water. 20 seconds and the Mavic pro is underwater. Can anyone give me advice for the future, what needs to be done to avoid situation like this?
Any advice would be fine.
Also we had a temporary restrictions on flying but I was able to get waiver but
It still didn't help to land it on the ground.
Thank you.

They dumped mine into the Pacific ocean.. flew all over... the area.. app disconected... when I reconnected the app it said I was in a NFZ n dropped me in less the 40 seconds... still working on them but don t think I'll be reimbursed even with care refresh.. ... really poor rollout of their update at our cost apparently

 

[Clapper]

I think it's a good thing. Keep these idiots from flying where they're not supposed to!

I guess there is just always going to be a contingent that thinks this way - "us against them". If you can just try to keep an open mind for a moment, please consider this; Having DJI or any other company or government branch control the behavior of others is great so long as everything is going your way. When they cross the line and start taking away freedoms you value, it does not seem so great. If you have a really nice muscle car, can the DOT or Ford come over and put a governor on it so you can't go over the speed limit? If you have firearms, can ATF or Ruger come over and install a device on your weapon to keep you from firing without first verifying you are in a legal area to shoot? Many people might say those steps keep the smart people in charge and the idiots from doing dumb and dangerous stuff. But I would not be so quick to endorse these things just because it goes my way this time. Freedom costs a lot, and one of the costs is allowing people to do things you don't like.

On a separate note related to pilot responsibility, I see you are a "Well Know Member". I assume your opinion carries some weight in this forum. I think you should think about the responsibility that brings. Even if you may do stuff I think is dumb, I won't label you an idiot. I don't know you and it is not my place to judge you. Even if I did know you I would not label you publicly with that word. I will say that your use of this derogatory generalization against people who may not agree with your views about limiting pilot freedom through software is uncivil and irresponsible. But I won't advocate a firmware update to you, and others in this forum who engage in that behavior, to prevent them from being rude and closed minded. You are free to continue trolling and judging until a big company figures out a way to limit that freedom too.

 

[Drucifer35]

I'm never ok with any law or regulation taking away or restricting my personal freedom, or where the government insinuates we cannot be entrusted to make responsible decisions. I understand some of our peers are incapable of such a herculean feat. Nonetheless, to tell everyone they can't fly here or there, or above this altitude, or over this location is an insult. Law X or regulation Y by its very existence punishes even the most experienced and safe pilots by essentially saying since pilot slapnuts here flew into crowd at night during cloudy/windy conditions, we are taking away your choices to decide for yourselves, and taking the choice away completely. After a DUI fatality do we remove everyone's right to drive, or ban alcohol? No, we've stiffened the punishment for those who drink and drive; why can't we learn from past mistakes elsewhere. You can't legislate the stupidity out of society, but you can make being stupid an extremely expensive character trait.
If we want safer flying, it comes through discussion, practice, collaboration between pilots, and making an example of those doing the wrong thing. We need more experienced pilots excited to work with novices, and novices who are not afraid to admit they have a lot to learn. Forum like this help, as novices can find answers without feeling embarrassed. This is where experts can share specific techniques and tips on how they accomplished difficult maneuvers and the pitfalls they encountered. Give those beginning pilots the tools they need to learn difficult maneuvers, instead of condescending comments about how they shouldn't try it without more experience. Make them aware of the consequences should they fail, but give them the knowledge on the proper methods. We need to police our own...
More government is NEVER the answer.

 

[Clapper]

DJI is a Chinese company, for better and worse. The Chinese are used to heavy handed government and social controls. Going along with such thinking is a must for anyone who wants to succeed in business in China. The Chinese don't spend a lot of time worrying about losing freedoms, because they don't have as many in their country and the ones they do have are new and not shared by everyone. But now DJI has a huge consumer base in the USA, and they need to realize that many people in this country are reflexively questioning and uncomfortable with "Big Brother" moves like unilaterally "updating" firmware to restrict our use in a creeping way. I am sure they have many rational motives for continuing this trend, such as trying to prevent wider government regulation that might hurt their sales in places like the USA. But hear this DJI - the USA is a country where freedom is valued, and "Big Brother" is not wanted by many of us even if there is some "good" in it. We see what you're doing, and we don't like it. Keep it up and somebody will get sick of it enough to come up with an alternative to your products that is more in line with our values. Right now you have little to fear because your tech is far ahead and your market share is immense. That is what GM thought in the the 60's and look what happened to them. They're still huge, but their arrogance gave birth to a multitude or competitors who are now much bigger and eat much of their lunch by making better products and selling them for less money. The market will win in the end, and this market is not controlled like the Chinese market. DJI, you should be continuing to innovate and find new ways to make your drones more capable and cheaper. Stop hobbling them with firmware and software updates that limit user freedoms more and more. Your once loyal US consumers like me will rebel and find ways to spend our money elsewhere with companies that don't feel compelled to treat us like children even if some of us may sometimes act irresponsibly. Even if your hobbling our drones seems beneficial to many people, it is not the "American" way and it is a losing strategy. Please stop it.

 

[namja]

I'm never ok with any law or regulation taking away or restricting my personal freedom, or where the government insinuates we cannot be entrusted to make responsible decisions. I understand some of our peers are incapable of such a herculean feat. Nonetheless, to tell everyone they can't fly here or there, or above this altitude, or over this location is an insult. Law X or regulation Y by its very existence punishes even the most experienced and safe pilots by essentially saying since pilot slapnuts here flew into crowd at night during cloudy/windy conditions, we are taking away your choices to decide for yourselves, and taking the choice away completely. After a DUI fatality do we remove everyone's right to drive, or ban alcohol? No, we've stiffened the punishment for those who drink and drive; why can't we learn from past mistakes elsewhere. You can't legislate the stupidity out of society, but you can make being stupid an extremely expensive character trait.
If we want safer flying, it comes through discussion, practice, collaboration between pilots, and making an example of those doing the wrong thing. We need more experienced pilots excited to work with novices, and novices who are not afraid to admit they have a lot to learn. Forum like this help, as novices can find answers without feeling embarrassed. This is where experts can share specific techniques and tips on how they accomplished difficult maneuvers and the pitfalls they encountered. Give those beginning pilots the tools they need to learn difficult maneuvers, instead of condescending comments about how they shouldn't try it without more experience. Make them aware of the consequences should they fail, but give them the knowledge on the proper methods. We need to police our own...
More government is NEVER the answer.

I'm all for less government. The forced grounding in NFZ is a terrible "feature" of the DJI drones. But ...

It is very different from DUI and driving for at least 3 reasons.

(1) You need to be licensed to drive a car, which typically means passing a written exam and a driving exam. There is no proficiency exam for becoming a recreational drone pilot. Sure, if everyone goes through "discussion, practice, collaboration between pilots" as you put it, then I can agree more with your general sentiment. But in all likelihood, 95% of drone pilots don't do any of that. They just pop open the box and start flying. NO reading of manual. NO idea what NFZ is.

(2) The NHTSA oversees the safety standards in the manufacturing/importing of the vehicles. The drone manufacturing is hardly regulated. One of the reasons that DJI is implementing these "safety measures" is so that there will be fewer regulations. DJI is not doing a very good job about that, but in this sense, DJI wants the same as you (less government!).

(3) The penalty from a crash and injuring someone is nowhere near the same. A DUI accident results in jail time and/or hefty fine and/or losing your driver's license. What happens when you crash your drone into a crowd? The idiot in San Diego who flew his drone into Petco Park during a Padres baseball MAY get a fine and nothing else (at least that's the last we've heard in the news). If you're gonna haul him away to jail and make him suffer the equivalence of losing a driver's license then maybe people will fly more carefully.

There are too many idiots out there who ruin the fun for the rest of us. And it is a lot easier to create software/firmware restrictions than it is to force people to become more educated prior to flying. I agree with DJI's intent although I don't agree with their methodology. I've been a software PM for 7+ years (including 3 years in firmware for vehicle telematics equipment), and I gotta tell ya, DJI is doing a terrible job with their firmware features and QA.

 

[dwallersv]

Now I know why my drone crashed. I was in the Flushing Meadows Park, one of the few places in NYC where it is permitted. After pressing the home button, the drone acted as if it had a mind of its own and smacked into a tree. I regret having spent $1000 on a piece of electronics that ended up being so worthless to me.

Then why are you posting here? This board is for people that don't have that regret. We don't come here to have to sift through whining to engage interesting discussions with other enthusiasts.

 

[dwallersv]

Yes it told me if I did not update my flight would be restricted to so many meters hight and so many meters distance. I figured lets do the update and see what changed. I found nothing that changed so far.

The only possible conclusion is you either didn't read that warning at all, or skimmed it and didn't really read it -- because that's not what it said.

In fact, the irony here is pretty thick, as what the warning actually said was if you DID update those flight restrictions would be enabled. Just the opposite of what your casual reading of the warning apparently yielded.

 

[rjbarber]

I think everybody is missing the point. I also think it won't be long before the FAA steps in and stops this foolishness from DJI. I'm a private pilot and I know that the single most important duty of the PIC (Pilot in Command) is to fly the aircraft, period. If the aircraft is under autonomous control, the the PIC must monitor all aspects of the flight and be ready to immediately take control of the flight if the autonomy fails. DJI is committing an egregious act by removing all PIC control of the aircraft and putting it in to uncontrolled flight. Stable flight is is NOT controlled flight.

I can't see the FAA will stand for aircraft operating in their airspace, whether model aircraft or not, being placed in a state where the PIC purposely looses all control of the aircraft and it subsequently continues to maneuver in the airspace. Autoland is an emergency feature or a pilot initiated and controlled feature. It goes against all manner of airman common sense to remove PIC control of the aircraft. Even though it's just landing, it's still no longer under control of the PIC and it's moving arbitrarily through airspace under nobodies control. That is so totally asinine and any pilots or wannabe pilots on this or any other forum who defend this action by DJI are idiots.

Sorry for strong words but sometimes they are called for in the face of complete loss of coherent thought. Placing an aircraft in an uncontrolled flight condition with no way for the PIC to regain control of the aircraft WILL cause accidents. It's already caused accidents that only involve the subject aircraft. How long before an uncontrolled DJI missile in purposely triggered uncontrolled flight hits a structure, vehicle, person, or other aircraft while the PIC watches helplessly because all his control has been removed? I'm betting not long. It's not DJI's place to enforce FAA rules. That duty belongs strictly to the FAA. Just ask them. They'll tell you in no uncertain terms that they and only they can enforce airspace regulations. I can't even fathom the amount of drugs the developers of this idea were on or the people who approved it.

 

[Gary7399]

I downloaded the new firmware and now it say I have a sensor error and needs to be calibrated also if you close to an restricted flight zone my drone try's to fly away from it automatically and almost caused me to crash my Mavic. I like the fact it tries to keep people out of restricted airspace but the drone acts accordingly and almost causes crashes

 

[Freebird32]

I have been flying 3DR solos, a P3P, and a Mavic without issue. Haven't updated P3P or Mavic to latest firmware(and probably won't) and I usually fly Mavic with iphone in airplane mode. I love the Mavic. I am expecting a Spark soon and will be using a dedicated wi-fi only tablet since I don't want my iPhone updated, and will be forced to update when I register/connect the new Spark. If I have correctly read what has been posted here, If I'm not able to connect the tablet to update the NFZ at any new location I go to, it will automatically restrict flight distance/height. If that's the case I'll probably return the Spark as it would be a major hassle. I know where I am with regards to airport control zones and controlled airspace, (I am a full scale pilot). Understand trying to make things idiot proof and safe for folks who are new to hobby, but there should be a better way to implement this.

 

[OzHobo]

Flight rstrictions are OK and a GA pilot I have to obey them and do so gladly.
However I do not have built into my Cessna or Piper that I fly restrictions that make me lose control of the stick.
These restrictions reflect a nanny state where you cannot make a considered decision yourself. Let the penalty reflect the problem or breaking of the rules. Confiscation, monetary penalty or even incarceration if the area is that restricted - but not a built in control put there by the manufacturer!
Seems to be bloody ridiculous.

 

[WIMMPYIII]

Who here has tried coptersafe?
They have NFZ removal, 500m limit removal and sport+ mod.
They price each at a hefty $200.

 

[Jeffhvac]

idiots flying unsafe and along flight paths (arrivals and departures) have put people and flights at risk...... so now we(responsible pilots) pay the NFZ restrictions......

 

[Lensman]

I live in Staten Island NY, we have huge limit for flying. But it's still some areas to fly.
Yesterday I was flying over the lake, and software just showed me that I entered nfz
Without giving me a choice it start landing my drone directly into the water. 20 seconds and the Mavic pro is underwater. Can anyone give me advice for the future, what needs to be done to avoid situation like this?
Any advice would be fine.
Also we had a temporary restrictions on flying but I was able to get waiver but
It still didn't help to land it on the ground.
Thank you.

WTH! Why couldn't they programme an auto RTH if they have to? An auto landing, though, that seems like a recipe for disaster far worse than just losing your drone.

 

[Lensman]

If you go to a new geographic area, you will be prompted for a nfz zone update, if you ignore, you can only fly with limited distance/height, similar to beginners mode.... It's very unfortunate if you don't have a web connection on phone, if your in a remote area or if you use a tablet

And if I'm using said phone with no data or wi-fi connection how do "they" know I'm in a new geographic area? My maps are previously downloaded although I don't really use them. With the GPS in the system I suppose this is how it's done, but I really don't know. Anyone elaborate?

 

[NaiveFlight]

And if I'm using said phone with no data or wi-fi connection how do "they" know I'm in a new geographic area? My maps are previously downloaded although I don't really use them. With the GPS in the system I suppose this is how it's done, but I really don't know. Anyone elaborate?

Mavic Connects to gps.... So it can compare against previous locations....

 

[Lensman]

Just to clarify yet again.

This is only an issue when you move your flight area. For example, I travel and hike weekly, many times I go to different states. Usually I hike in remote areas.

(prior to 800 FW I had no issue)

When I go to any new area, the dji app prompts an NFZ zone update, I get 2 options, ignore or accept. If you have web on your phone you hit accept, it downloads super quick and you can fly as usual. If you hit ignore, mavic will only fly similarly to beginners mode. With height/distance limitations.

The issue is.... If I have no web on my phone because I'm out hiking in remote areas.... I csnt update... So I'm stuck with a beginners mode limits...

If I use a tablet that doesn't have web connection then The same thing happens.


Otherwise the 800 FW is just fine, but thus NFZ zone prompts upon boot up of dji app is the issue.

So.... So far, we don't quite know if this is a FW 800 issue or a dji go app.

I used to run 700 with dji app at 4.1.0
Now I run 800 with dji at 4.1.0.

That makes it seem as If it's the FW 800 (it could be) but it could also be just the app pushing it...

Well, that's the best explanation I've read so far. And that would indeed be a problem for me. I use a dedicated phone with no data service...