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Poll Should Hobbyists & Commercial Pilots Be permitted to fly over Crowds

Permitted to operate over crowds


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I'll only say this...manned aircraft fly over people. They sometimes crash on top of people. When they do they kill people. My biggest problem with the inability to fly over people is the hypocrisy in it.

Being able to steer a disabled/damaged craft is not a guarantee that it won't hit anyone, yet if you want that waiver for a drone you almost have to prove that you've mitigated the hazard 100%.

I have no need to fly over people so I personally don't care but it's hard not to notice the obvious double standard.
 
I never fly near even one person. Just pointing out that a crash over a crowd is not a 100% chance of death and destruction.
 
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I never fly near even one person.
I do a little of both
Most people I meet no B.S they don’t care where or how I fly. Talk me to death. I hook em up with a selfie and networking from being out and about. You can’t be it if you like other people;)
They only leave when i start preaching rules and regulations
 
I’m On a 4 year no crash, no repairs run.
Came in knowing absolutely nothing. But operating a drone is pretty simple. ;)
Blizzards, rain, 5 below zero, 40 MPH winds you name the condition. NYC 3 miles out RC reception perfectO.
FW and battery issues is no excuse to crash been through dozens.
Study, then go fly.

I just wish it was a Hex and not a quad:confused:
A parachute would be nice. ;)
More battery redundancy is a must and DJI is falling behind with their fake dual battery system. :mad:

If if if if a PIC has an accident that’s on them not me:cool:
License, Insurance & registration is all I require instead the FAA got Us fighting each other.
 
As much as I hate the word “no” feel free/welcome to express why you would vote no.

Peacefully please:)
No because of the potential damage.
Let's say you are insured, and your drone drops like a brick. Will the insurance cover your liability? How many ways could they get out of it? Let's say it was a manufacturing defect. Would you be able to sue a Chinese company from outside of China? Would that take only a week to wrap up?
 
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No because of the potential damage.
Let's say you are insured, and your drone drops like a brick. Will the insurance cover your liability? How many ways could they get out of it? Let's say it was a manufacturing defect. Would you be able to sue a Chinese company from outside of China? Would that take only a week to wrap up?[/QUOTE

Depends on your insurance. My State Farm Homeowners Insurance is supposed to cover accidental injury caused by negligent operation of an RC device. Only major exclusion is if I intend to cause injury or am engaged in a criminal act.

In my state, if drone crashes into someone due to a design defect of which I was unaware, I could assert that as a defense. This would force injured party to either bring in manufacturer or retailer (if different) or risk jury apportioning fault to the "empty chair." Bringing DJI or any other Chinese corp into the case as defendant is next to impossible. Chinese companies seem able to sell whatever product they want in US with virtually zero liability to consumer.
 
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My state has a law that says the retailer of a product is liable for a product design or manufacturing defect that causes injury if, as a practical matter, the real designer or manufacturer cannot be brought into court or forced to pay judgment. So, little mom and pop store who sold the drone (or an e-cig battery or whatever) in sealed box can be held 100% liable for injury with zero recourse against Chinese manufacturer.
 
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Depends on your insurance. My State Farm Homeowners Insurance is supposed to cover accidental injury caused by negligent operation of an RC device. Only major exclusion is if I intend to cause injury or am engaged in a criminal act.

In my state, if drone crashes into someone due to a design defect of which I was unaware, I could assert that as a defense. This would force injured party to either bring in manufacturer or retailer (if different) or risk jury apportioning fault to the "empty chair." Bringing DJI or any other Chinese corp into the case as defendant is next to impossible. Chinese companies seem able to sell whatever product they want in US with virtually zero liability to consumer.
Hi...not challenging, simply asking...your SF Insurance policy actually has a clause that references negligent operation of an RC device? If so, does it state under what conditions? Meaning, if you were flying in a class D airspace 'illegally', they would still cover you? Or, if your out in the boondocks where the odds of actually causing harm are greatly reduced they would cover you?
 
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Hi...not challenging, simply asking...your SF Insurance policy actually has a clause that references negligent operation of an RC device? If so, does it state under what conditions? Meaning, if you were flying in a class D airspace 'illegally', they would still cover you? Or, if your out in the boondocks where the odds of actually causing harm are greatly reduced they would cover you?

Policy language can vary considerably from state to state and carrier to carrier. Its always best to check own policy very carefully. Sometimes drones may be an exception to an exclusion to coverage. I am cutting and pasting a little to simplify things:

COVERAGE L - PERSONAL LIABILITY
If a claim is made or a suit is brought against an insured for damages because of bodily injury or property damage to
which this coverage applies, caused by an occurrence, we will:

1. pay up to our limit of liability for the damages for which
the insured is legally liable; and

2. provide a defense at our expense by counsel of our choice. We may make any investigation and settle any claim or suit that we decide is appropriate. Our
obligation to defend any claim or suit ends when the amount we pay for damages, to effect settlement or satisfy a judgment resulting from the occurrence,
equals our limit of liability.

SECTION II - EXCLUSIONS
1. Coverage L and Coverage M do not apply to:
a. bodily injury or property damage:

(1) which is either expected or intended by the
insured; or

(2) which is the result of willful and malicious acts
of the insured;

*******************

"Bodily injury" or "property damage" that results from the ownership, leasing, operation,
maintenance, use, occupancy, renting, loaning, entrusting, supervision, loading, or unloading of
aircraft. However, this exclusion does not apply to:

********************

b. Model aircraft not designed or used to carry people or cargo.

So, back to question whether flying drone in Class D airspace would void coverage? I think it would depend on what exactly you are doing, the exact language of the policy, and how your state courts have defined phrases like "willful and malicious."

Mere violation of a law, ordinance, rule or regulation is not always dispositive. As an example, the guy who drives drunk at night with no lights and hits pedestrian in crosswalk. Pedestrian sues driver for injuries. Unlikley carrier denies coverage unless driver was literally trying to kill or injure the pedestrian.

The AMA insurance is different. I think it says no coverage if flight is conducted in violation of any law or AMA guideline regardless of particulars.
 
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Compare the language in SFarm policy with language in flyicarus policy which says coverage is based on flight meeting certain "conditions precedent" including the policyholder's own "due diligence" and compliance with air navigation rules.

THE CONDITIONS PRECEDENT
Due Diligence

1. You shall at all times use due diligence and do and concur in doing everything
reasonably practicable to avoid accidents and to avoid or diminish any loss hereon.

Compliance with Air Navigation Orders, etc.

2. You shall comply with all air navigation and airworthiness orders rules
regulations and other requirements issued by any competent authority
affecting the safe operation of the Drone and shall ensure that
(a) the Drone is airworthy at the commencement of each Flight;
(b) all Log Books and other records in connection with the Drone which are
required by any official regulations in force from time to time shall be kept
up to date and shall be produced to Us or Our agents on request;
(c) Your employees and agents comply with such orders and requirements.
 
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In other words, fly icarus policy will indemnify you against a negligence claim so long as you were not negligent and there is no valid claim!
 
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I agree with Weaponized and others about the hypocrisy of it. You're still liable whether you're insured or not and there are too many things allowed that don't require government intervention. You can fly a sixty mile an hour stunt kite without hindrances of any kind. Heck, you can shoot a rifle over somebody while hunting without being insured or needing to detail what you'd do if the charge was light and the bullet dropped.
The real problem I see is when there are multiple people flying over an event at the same time, basically resulting in aerial dogfights above a crowd that just want to enjoy themselves. The one percent of wackos that ruin things are going to be there whether the ninety-nine percent pay for it or not. If they absolutely banned all drones from the sky, there would still be drones in the sky. Lack of common sense is not going to be mitigated by regulations.
 
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Interesting how this poll is playing out. I myself voted no. My thoughts are that the people underneath/below do not necessarily ‘consent’ to possibly getting injured. THIS GOES FOR MANNED AIRCRAFT ALSO! You have to get consent for everything these days, what would make this any different?
As a side argument, noise is an issue in most cases which disturbs the crowd from their normal activities they are trying to enjoy. Do you want a Mavic Air or a prop plane buzzing over your head at the next outdoor concert you attend?

Here is an example, something that makes me wonder ...
my wife and I were at College Gameday a few weeks back in Pullman. I had just completed doing some aerials of the area that morning (air traffic was unusually dense this day) so I quit.
We walked down to the stadium area where several thousand were gathered when suddenly another low flying aircraft comes roaring through at a very low altitude ‘on approach’ possibly 400 to 800 feet above the crowd whizzing by the buildings. (this is class E2 airspace) directly over the university. * I should note there is an NCAA stadium directly 50 feet behind me from where I took these pictures. (the game was later that evening)

Why do large aircraft such as these have permission to basically buzz a crowd/stadium when drones do not? And they are worried about someone with a Mavic Pro! Ha!
I think that flying over large crowds should not be allowed for manned or unmanned aircraft, it just endangers innocent people’s lives.

I took this shot at a focal length of 66mm from my A6000 (in other words this is a short non-telephoto shot)
View attachment DSC06043.JPG


Here is shortly after *see arrow
View attachment DSC06044_LI.jpg
 

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There may be times when it’s acceptable. There are several videos of drones falling and hitting people in a crowd. Not to mention the videos of people throwing objects at low flying drones.
 
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