Poll Should Hobbyists & Commercial Pilots Be permitted to fly over Crowds

[Ctrlx]

Seeing this discussion here makes me think about the thousands of commercial flights that happen above our heads every moment of the day (look at FlightRadar24), carrying many lives, thousands of gallons of fuel and are massively huge crafts (An example of an average sized airplane the Boeing 737-800. It has a maximum takeoff weight of about 175,000 lbs (80,000 kg) that are not immune from failures. We tend to not even think that a craft of that size has the possibility to drop out of the sky and come down anywhere...into a crowd, small town or large city with catastrophic results. Why don't we give it much thought, because we trust that there are management systems for commercial flights in place to address a failure and minimize potential damage, whereas with drones we can't always trust that every PIC has the same frame of mind or risk management plan for the possibility of failure. So flying a drone over a crowd, you have to assume the risk and have systems in place to minimize the possibilities of failure and procedures to employ if any failure does occur. Knowing that drones are available for purchase by anyone, and with that in mind, thinking about some friends you have or people you may know (I know some people I wouldn't trust with a wet paper bag), would you want just anyone flying a drone above a crowd.....it just takes one "DOH" to cause people to have a bad day. Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it...

 

[JSKCKNIT]

I'd say no. But it's a judgement call. A few people on a beach, go for it. I wouldn't do it over say, a field packed with party goers.

Also would need an altitude restriction. I guarantee there would be at least one person in a crowd who would try to knock a drone out there sky.

 

[ChattMavicPilot]

At this stage of drones, I do not know if it is a good thought to have just anyone flying over a crowd. Although the technology is good and there are several threads discussing that pilot error is the main cause of crashes (at least with DJI drones), the fact is that they do still crash. One of my questions is why do drones not shut down all of the motors when a crash is inevitable (due to electronic failures, i.e. a motor shuts down). It seams to me that the props would be more of a danger than most items, outside of the obvious item of a 10 lb brick falling out of the sky. I am sure that they are receiving feedback from the different components and know the health of each item, so this would be a fairly simple code implementation. Also, with that, they could develop some sort of counter measure to prevent speed, although at this time I have no idea as to what that might be and there is always the issue of how high would you need to be before the counter measure took effect. But, in general, I personally do not feel like it is a good idea just based on how some people fly and the cavalier attitude that some take towards flying in those conditions.

 

[CaveDrone]

107 yes... hobbyists no. 107 pilots have something to lose, livelihood, reputation ect.

Hobbyists will generally take more risks with less at stake.

 

[Slim.slamma]

107 yes... hobbyists no. 107 pilots have something to lose, livelihood, reputation ect.

Hobbyists will generally take more risks with less at stake.

We all have something to lose..
I think the Faa might disagree on that second sentence, let me see if I can find that news article.

I think the rules should be the same for all, that’s how all the confusion started, to be honest.

 

[ScubaBob]

As much as I hate the word “no” feel free/welcome to express why you would vote no.

Peacefully please

Many years ago I was told a tale that if you dropped a penny from the top of a 100 foot (33 meter) building and the penny landed on someone's head it would kill them. I don't know if this is true or not but the concept is interesting. The bottom line is that if you are flying over a crowd and something goes haywire and your drone crashes into the crowd then people could have serious injuries from the props or just the weight of the drone. We have already seen photos of children being injured by wayward drones. So using some Dirty Harry verbiage, "Do you feel lucky today?" How would you feel if your drone crashed into a toddler and blinded them? How much insurance do you have? Why would you want to take that risk? I do lots of "risky" activities including professional scuba diving as well as hunting / target shooting. I believe that the good outdoorsman (or woman) should always exercise maximum prudence, safety and concern for others. To that end, don't fly over crowds.

 

[mcsenerd]

Many years ago I was told a tale that if you dropped a penny from the top of a 100 foot (33 meter) building and the penny landed on someone's head it would kill them. I don't know if this is true or not but the concept is interesting. ...

Nice article if you're interested...and I concur...it's gonna take a lot more than a penny to kill a person and from a lot higher altitude than a typical drone flight. I think fear is always easier to peddle than reason and/or common sense.

 

[Slim.slamma]

How would you feel if your drone crashed into a toddler and blinded them?

I was the first to post that story. I believe it was his father.
Actually made me think of my own son.
I’m not the pilot I was a few years back.

To that end, don't fly over crowds.

You right we shouldn’t, not directly over anyways.
Thanks for dropping some jewels

 

[mcsenerd]

I guess my thing is that there should just be some common sense rules in place. For example, I think it should be expressly allowed to transit over people who might so happen to be in a flight path, but not allow steady hovering or stationary flight or sustained, repetitive flight over people or crowds. This would strike something of a balance between the risks error or malfunction while maintaining some common sense acceptance of the low probability of occurrence. Maybe not exactly stated like that...but something similar...and maybe just for Part 107 operators even.

 

[Slim.slamma]

So using some Dirty Harry verbiage, "Do you feel lucky today?"

@dirkclod
I’m starting to dig it around here.

 

[Steve Hartsfield]

Posts like this just encourage the idea that it should be OK to fly in risky situations... Any yahoo definitely should NOT be allowed to fly over people in highly populated events, parades and what not...
And anyone that thinks it is ok is a manic that needs medication.

Why are you people trying to push the envelope? If you're not careful all the fun will be over...

couldn't agree with you more.

 

[jagraphics]

I said Yes to "registered and insured" because most in that group will behave responsibly around crowds.They are not likely to abuse the situation. Therefore the risk is minimal compared to driving to the event in the first place

 

[roadkilt]

When I look at the list of new posts on this forum, more than half are flyaways, sudden drops, lost my drone etc....I wouldn’t want to fly anywhere let alone over a crowd.

 

[dirkclod]

@dirkclod
I’m starting to dig it around here.

 

[Classic flyer]

I have posted this elsewhere, but here it is again.
View attachment 52533
If you look close at this dense crowd, you will have to agree that the Skulls make up only 15% of the possible targets for a falling drone. So, It is fair to say that even if you crash over a dense crowd, you have less than a 20% chance of hitting someone in the head. Maybe 50 / 50 of hiting a person at all.

Posts like this just encourage the idea that it should be OK to fly in risky situations... Any yahoo definitely should NOT be allowed to fly over people in highly populated events, parades and what not...
And anyone that thinks it is ok is a manic that needs medication.

Why are you people trying to push the envelope? If you're not careful all the fun will be over...

Common sense and SAFETY rule the day...be smart, fly safe

 

[Classic flyer]

What difference does insurance make for crying out loud?

"Hey dude, your drone just took my eyes out!!"

"S'ok I'm insured"

"Ah cool, all good then...."

Very valid observation sir...be smart, fly safe

 

[Ren57]

I guess the question we all need to ask ourselves is this. You're at some kind of outdoor event and then suddenly bang, a Mavic drops a couple of hundred feet right onto your melon! How happy would you be about that?

 

[drz12345]

Bad irresponsible pilots will do it anyway

 

[DroneAir]

I have posted this elsewhere, but here it is again.
View attachment 52533
If you look close at this dense crowd, you will have to agree that the Skulls make up only 15% of the possible targets for a falling drone. So, It is fair to say that even if you crash over a dense crowd, you have less than a 20% chance of hitting someone in the head. Maybe 50 / 50 of hiting a person at all.

Only a juvenile would suggest that their possible maiming of someone could be left to chance. I bet you tell you parents when you will have an accident, too, right? What about when someone's head is hit and it's fault? What's your excuse then, blame DJI, expect someone else to wipe up the blood for you? Grow up.

 

[Dipstick]

According to FAA regulations I can't fly full scale AC over a crowded area, except at fairly high altitude. Our drones have no where near the reliability of full scale AC, and flying a drone at high altitudes would only reduce situational awareness, and of course severely limit photography. Obviously a drone wouldn't cause the damage of a large plane or helicopter, but they can cause serious injury. No amount of insurance offers an exception to these regulations, so I see no reason the FAA would make an exception for drones. I believe I could understand some flexibility with the 107 people though.
Remember, the FAA's definition of a crowded area is: "TWO OR MORE PEOPLE"