Regarding International penalties and fines

[tienuyan]

Lets say that I hypothetically flew illegally my drone in Santorini island , Greece, and post the footage on my social media, or sharing my experience on TV shows / streaming in other countries ~ will Greece have the authority to fine me overseas, or blacklist me on their immigration system ? What can they do ? Press charges ? Guess the answer would fit any footage shot in any country ~ thanks !

 

[FoxhallGH]

Have you heard of Interpol?

 

[Thwyllo]

I'd start running if I were you. Look what happened to Jason Bourne...

Seriously, unless you posted footage of a military installation or somesuch its extremely unlikely you'd be tried and convicted of anything in absentia, and of course they don't normally levy fines overseas, although it's not unheard of if they chose to use international debt collectors, who do exist. Or Dog the Bounty Hunter...

 

[Mossiback]

I am not familiar with the Greek legal system, but I doubt they have the manpower to look for postings of illegal flying and do anything about it internationally. At the most I could see them posting a warrant that would flag you the next time you try to enter the country and they may deal with it then.

 

[Chip]

Dont know how things work in Greece. But, the FAA believes if you conduct a reckless drone flight anywhere in the USA, as evidenced by a video you post on the internet, it can mail you an Order of Assessment/Civil Penalty anywhere you live in the world. Famous example is the $10,000 Order of Assessment the FAA mailed to Raphael "Trappy" Pirker in Switzerland in 2013. If served with such an assessment, you may face difficult decision whether to ignore and take chances or concede jurisdiction and defend.

https://environblog.jenner.com/files/faa-administrators-order-of-assessment.pdf

 

[Chip]

Here is the video that got Pirker in trouble with the FAA:

 

[Chip]

Lets say that I hypothetically flew illegally my drone in Santorini island , Greece, and post the footage on my social media, or sharing my experience on TV shows / streaming in other countries ~ will Greece have the authority to fine me overseas, or blacklist me on their immigration system ? What can they do ? Press charges ? Guess the answer would fit any footage shot in any country ~ thanks !

Here is what the US Government can do with an FAA civil assessment:

If you do not request a hearing before the National Transportation Safety Board within twenty (20) days after you receive this Order, the amount of debt assessed in this Order constitutes a legally collectible debt owed to the United States. You will not have a right to seek review within the Federal Aviation Administration of the validity and/or amount of this debt. If this debt is not paid in full within thirty (30) days of your receipt of this Order, the debt is considered delinquent. For delinquent debts, federal regulation (49 C.F.R. §89.23) requires us to charge interest, from the date this Order is issued, at a fixed annual rate of 5% along with an administrative charge of $12.00 per month, representing our costs of administrative collection. Furthermore, if the full amount assessed is not paid in full within 120 days of your receipt of this Order, we are required to assess an additional penalty at an annual rate of 6%, accruing from the date of delinquency. Delinquent debts may be reported to consumer reporting agencies or commercial credit bureaus, which could adversely affect your credit rating. Nonpayment of this debt may ultimately result in a referral to a collection agency, the Internal Revenue Service, the United States Department of Justice or, if applicable, to a Federal Agency for offset of debt against Federal pay.

Remember the FAA claims to own every molecule of air in the United States from 1mm above ground to the edge of navigable airspace and to have worldwide jurisdiction over anyone who flies drone through any of it .

Pirker eventually persuaded the FAA to cut the fine to $1,000 but he spent $1,000,000 in legal fees to get there. His lawyer is now DJI's General Counsel btw.

 

[Lennyg]

Here is what the US Government can do with an FAA civil assessment:

If you do not request a hearing before the National Transportation Safety Board within twenty (20) days after you receive this Order, the amount of debt assessed in this Order constitutes a legally collectible debt owed to the United States. You will not have a right to seek review within the Federal Aviation Administration of the validity and/or amount of this debt. If this debt is not paid in full within thirty (30) days of your receipt of this Order, the debt is considered delinquent. For delinquent debts, federal regulation (49 C.F.R. §89.23) requires us to charge interest, from the date this Order is issued, at a fixed annual rate of 5% along with an administrative charge of $12.00 per month, representing our costs of administrative collection. Furthermore, if the full amount assessed is not paid in full within 120 days of your receipt of this Order, we are required to assess an additional penalty at an annual rate of 6%, accruing from the date of delinquency. Delinquent debts may be reported to consumer reporting agencies or commercial credit bureaus, which could adversely affect your credit rating. Nonpayment of this debt may ultimately result in a referral to a collection agency, the Internal Revenue Service, the United States Department of Justice or, if applicable, to a Federal Agency for offset of debt against Federal pay.

Remember the FAA claims to own every molecule of air in the United States from 1mm above ground to the edge of navigable airspace and to have worldwide jurisdiction over anyone who flies drone through any of it .

Pirker eventually persuaded the FAA to cut the fine to $1,000 but he spent $1,000,000 in legal fees to get there. His lawyer is now DJI's General Counsel btw.

I have a VERY hard time believing he spent 1 million just to avoid paying a 10 thousand dollar fine that is completely unenforceable. He lives in a different country.

 

[Cymruflyer]

Lets say that I hypothetically flew illegally my drone in Santorini island , Greece, and post the footage on my social media, or sharing my experience on TV shows / streaming in other countries ~ will Greece have the authority to fine me overseas, or blacklist me on their immigration system ? What can they do ? Press charges ? Guess the answer would fit any footage shot in any country ~ thanks !

You have absolutely nothing to worry about, because, as you said, this is all hypothetical!!

 

[ac0j]

You could post it on someone else’s website or Facebook and see what happens to them

 

[dawgpilot]

I have a VERY hard time believing he spent 1 million just to avoid paying a 10 thousand dollar fine that is completely unenforceable. He lives in a different country.

It's possible that someone else was contributing to his defense to avoid a negative ruling that would affect drone operators.

 

[Chip]

It's possible that someone else was contributing to his defense to avoid a negative ruling that would affect drone operators.

Yes, possibly so. Here is an interview with Pirker in which he explains his decision to settle three years into the battle:

"In the end, it just turned out to be something that would have cost us another million [dollars] to defend, and it’s just not worth the fight." (emphasis added).

Me IRL: Raphael “Trappy” Pirker - The Kernel

 

[Chip]

We could contact Brendan Schulman and ask what he charged.

Brendan Schulman (@dronelaws) | Twitter

 

[Chip]

...a 10 thousand dollar fine that is completely unenforceable. He lives in a different country.

Why do you think its unenforceable?

 

[Chip]

Just for sake of discussion, let us flip the script. Let us say you get an official letter from the Chinese government in the mail at your residence in the US declaring you owe the country $10,000 for something illegal or improper you allegedly did while visiting there once. Would you feel safe to ignore? Would you feel safe returning to China with the matter unresolved?

 

[lmel2005]

10 thousand for flying a toy.
1 million to fight this in courts.
Interpol, spy agents, cowboys and aliens, hunting dangerous criminals who can destroy galaxy with a toy drone.

Paranoia.

 

[Slim.slamma]

You could post it on someone else’s website or Facebook and see what happens to them

There’s nothing wrong with charity
as long as it ends up in your pocket.

 

[Chip]

...Paranoia...

...is relative!

 

[lmel2005]

...is relative!

View attachment 52848

Yes, I know. Paranoid doesn't see it, the same way. [emoji6]

 

[FLPilotshark]

Sounds like you're SOL mate!