Remote ID function for FAA

[Paul Stocum]

On another thread I posted about a person complaining that 2 drones were hovering over her yard while family was in the jacuzzi, she refined her statement saying it was proablaby 8-12' above them. Definitely a no no.

My questions is, with Remote ID in newer drones, can FAA go through logs and find the drone and locational violation? Then perhaps the owner if they registered it as required? Or is Remote ID info only readable during operation?

Hope I worded this to make sense.

 

[MA2 317]

Good thought Paul.

The FlightAware site tracks manned aircraft and I could see a similar site in the future for drones if connected to a network.

Much like investigators reading the cell phone history pings to establish a timeline for a crime, one could dig into the RID database, if one exists, for possible flight violations.

 

[msinger]

is Remote ID info only readable during operation?

Remote ID data is only transmitted while a drone is being operated. And a receiver needs to be within Wi-Fi/Bluetooth range to receive that data. Once it has been received though, it could be stored elsewhere for viewing at a later time.

 

[Chip]

Remote ID data is only transmitted while a drone is being operated. And a receiver needs to be within Wi-Fi/Bluetooth range to receive that data. Once it has been received though, it could be stored elsewhere for viewing at a later time.

Published in Russian at https://www.nanonewsnet.ru/news/2022/aeroscope-obnaruzhenie-kontrol-za-deistviyami-bespilotnikov-dji

Aeroscope, detecting and controlling the actions of DJI drones
Published April 4, 2022 Author: Dmitry Barov

Excerpts:

Aeroscope

The detection device from the DJI drone manufacturer identifies most of the DJI drones flying in our country. In addition to signaling the presence of UAS elements in the monitoring area, it is able to accurately determine its serial number, display elements on a satellite map with the ability to scale and record characteristics, flight trajectory, aircraft coordinates throughout the flight, takeoff point (Home Point) and location coordinates location of the operator (Pilot Position).

Using Aeroscope, you can get the planned coordinates of objects through which the UAV flight path passes in real time, taking as a basis the displayed coordinates of the UAV located above these objects. It is also possible to get the coordinates later from the flight log stored in the Aeroscope by playing the track of interest.

Apparently, its very easy to set up blanket coverage to monitor and record flight data remotely from anywhere in the world. All you need is Stationary Units.



The Aeroscope operator accesses its server through an interface from anywhere in the world, it can serve a whole network of receiving modules, Aeroscope antennas and transmit data to interested parties about the actions of the UAV and the location of the ground control station.

Stationary Aeroscope

Allows you to detect UAS within a radius of up to 30–35 km, consists of a radio receiver and a back end server. Such devices can be mounted on vehicles, often installed on the territory of facilities that require control over the use of airspace by unmanned aerial vehicles.

 

[msinger]

Aeroscope

The detection device from the DJI drone manufacturer identifies most of the DJI drones flying in our country. In addition to signaling the presence of UAS elements in the monitoring area, it is able to accurately determine its serial number, display elements on a satellite map with the ability to scale and record characteristics, flight trajectory, aircraft coordinates throughout the flight, takeoff point (Home Point) and location coordinates location of the operator (Pilot Position).

DJI Aeroscope might be a good fit in some cases, but it's only able to detect (most) DJI drones. And it's not detecting them by scanning for Remote ID broadcasts as most of the drones it currently detects do not broadcast Remote ID data.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Remote ID data is only transmitted while a drone is being operated. And a receiver needs to be within Wi-Fi/Bluetooth range to receive that data. Once it has been received though, it could be stored elsewhere for viewing at a later time.

Ok, so here's a question for you. Am I correct in my perception?

If our hot tub voyeur had operational rid the hot tub users would have had to call local police and or FAA and one of those agencies would have had to set up a sting operation with a receiver within Wifi distance of said hot tub in hopes that the drone would return and flight data could be recorded.

 

[Vic Moss]

On another thread I posted about a person complaining that 2 drones were hovering over her yard while family was in the jacuzzi, she refined her statement saying it was proablaby 8-12' above them. Definitely a no no.

My questions is, with Remote ID in newer drones, can FAA go through logs and find the drone and locational violation? Then perhaps the owner if they registered it as required? Or is Remote ID info only readable during operation?

Hope I worded this to make sense.

There is no expected forensic capabilities built into RID. The only way for someone to be able to track the drone is if they have an app that tracks and stores data. And they have to have that app open, running, and storing. There will be no clearinghouse for RID broadcasts.

It will be incumbent upon the app user to record the flight and give it to any responding police.

As far as the drone hovering over a hot tub, it's been my experience that this is usually either totally made up (someone who hates drones), or completely overblown by the "victim". I'm not saying it didn't happen, but unless there is evidence, I have my doubts. Too many people have cried wolf over drones (thanks to press, politicians, and manned pilots), that it's dubious when complaints like this arise.

 

[msinger]

If our hot tub voyeur had operational rid the hot tub users would have had to call local police and or FAA and one of those agencies would have had to set up a sting operation with a receiver within Wifi distance of said hot tub in hopes that the drone would return and flight data could be recorded.

Right. Or the hot tub owners could record the Remote ID data themselves. The local police and/or FAA probably have better things to do than set up camp for days/weeks waiting for said drones to return.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Right. Or the hot tub owners could record the Remote ID data themselves. The local police and/or FAA probably have better things to do than set up camp for days/weeks waiting for said drones to return.

Thank you! I'm reticent to try to say too much as there is so much confusion surrounding this new system. I also agree with your opinion that enforcement agencies would really struggle with the time and money involved in pursuing a complaint of this manner. At some point the real world trumps academic. As much as I enjoy a good gooberment is out to get you theory, I really see this rid thing fairly innocuous. If someone is within a quarter of a mile from me and is really upset by the presence of the drone I would most likely be happy to fly elsewhere. I've had people freak out from my having a camera but never a drone to date. Having said that, I would take neither into Deal NJ. Again real world trumps and it's always wise to be situationally aware.

 

[Paul Stocum]

Ok, so here's a question for you. Am I correct in my perception?

If our hot tub voyeur had operational rid the hot tub users would have had to call local police and or FAA and one of those agencies would have had to set up a sting operation with a receiver within Wifi distance of said hot tub in hopes that the drone would return and flight data could be recorded.

It was more of, can data be retrieved by FAA after the fact. I figured the chances were slim, but thought I’d ask.

 

[Chip]

It was more of, can data be retrieved by FAA after the fact. I figured the chances were slim, but thought I’d ask.

The answer is yes and aeroscope is set up to do just that. One thing to know is that there are currently zero regulations in place governing collection, storage, distribution or use of UAV remote id data. This is in stark contrast to state regulation of auto license plate readers.

Over 80,000 DJI drone IDs exposed in data leak: Report

A cybersecurity research team has discovered an unprotected database of DJI drone logs which contains over 80,000 unique drone IDs.

dronedj.com

 

[Big Bro]

Let me preface this post by saying this is all new to me, but I've been questioning what the FAA's end game on RID. I read today that ANRA Technologies has announced it has won a 2.27 billon dollar contract to demonstrate the ability to collect, aggregate and retransmit Broadcast Remote ID (B-RID) messages. ANRA will convert these B-RID messages to Network Remote ID (N-RID) messages that can be shared in the Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Service Supplier (USS) Network. I hope those in the know will correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like the ability to track and store all drone flight data is in our future.

 

[karlblessing]

Only way they would be able to retroactively go back and see what drone was there, is if remote id required an internet/lte connection which would be collected by a central server online. But currently it does not.

Only way would have been if the property owner had some sort of app scanning remote id frequencies and recording the information collected at that site. I could certainly see comercial products being sold to resorts, corporations and what not to collect and record that kind of information.

Though the remote id broadcast itself does not contain any personal identifiable information, and the only way someone reading that information would know who it was would be to probably report that information to the faa (ie if something serious happened such as injury or criminal act) and eventually got it thru faa. Or if they went and found the pilot at the remote controller location while the drone was being operated.

 

[karlblessing]

Let me preface this post by saying this is all new to me, but I've been questioning what the FAA's end game on RID is. I read today that ANRA Technologies has announced it has won a 2.27 billon dollar contract to demonstrate the ability to collect, aggregate and retransmit Broadcast Remote ID (B-RID) messages. ANRA will convert these B-RID messages to Network Remote ID (N-RID) messages that can be shared in the Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Service Supplier (USS) Network. I hope those in the know will correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like the ability to track and store all drone flight data is in our future.

Seems like if they managed they would have to piggy back off existing cell towers or install them on buildings (like 5G mWave service).

The information wouldn't contain personal identification information, but if they are providing that data directly to the faa they themselves would have it, and depending on how they work with the manufacturer and remote ID we're possibly looking at the ability for the faa to remotely ground any drone tied to your ownership with a full history of how you fly without ever touching the drone. (if we did that kind of network approach with cars we'd have an uproar).

I suspect tho, with enough anti-drone campaign they could easily have residents and mobile phone users collecting that information for free, as they could create an app similar to SETI@Home where the user just collects and transmits detected drone data in the guise of promoting national security.

 

[Chip]

This airport manager in Camarillo CA demonstrated the aeroscope which the FAA gave him special permission to use.

@ 2:14 Martino begins his demonstration
@ 2:27 aeroscope gets a hit
@3:00 reporter says I can see pilots email address in addition to location and flight data

Martino acknowledges they contact pilots through their email addresses. Neither he nor the FAA had the slightest concern over legality or privacy of email registration data. But, don't worry, I am sure "they" fixed the problem, no more leaks and the FAA makes sure that only the most responsible and law abiding people ever have access to aeroscope or the registration data base. Of course, they have zero regulations in place now on any of this but maybe in the future....

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[lookout]

This airport manager in Camarillo CA demonstrated the aeroscope which the FAA gave him special permission to use.

@ 2:14 Martino begins his demonstration
@ 2:27 aeroscope gets a hit
@3:00 reporter says I can see pilots email address in addition to location and flight data

Martino acknowledges they contact pilots through their email addresses. Neither he nor the FAA had the slightest concern over legality or privacy of email registration data. But, don't worry, I am sure "they" fixed the problem, no more leaks and the FAA makes sure that only the most responsible and law abiding people ever have access to aeroscope or the registration data base. Of course, they have zero regulations in place now on any of this but maybe in the future....

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That would most likely come from the dji app itself, the email, as you can't activate without.

 

[karlblessing]

That would most likely come from the dji app itself, the email, as you can't activate without.

Makes sense seeing as aeroscope is a DJI product.

 

[lookout]

Let me preface this post by saying this is all new to me, but I've been questioning what the FAA's end game on RID. I read today that ANRA Technologies has announced it has won a 2.27 billon dollar contract to demonstrate the ability to collect, aggregate and retransmit Broadcast Remote ID (B-RID) messages. ANRA will convert these B-RID messages to Network Remote ID (N-RID) messages that can be shared in the Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Service Supplier (USS) Network. I hope those in the know will correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like the ability to track and store all drone flight data is in our future.

The court ruled that since faa wasn't collecting that it wasn't a violation of fourth amendment, so when they implement this we should drag the faa and their (sub)contractors back into the courtroom. And yeah the endgame is suspicious, probably just to cover the interests of the dishonest congressman who don't give a crap about their constituents. That doesn't make it necessary.

 

[lookout]

Thank you! I'm reticent to try to say too much as there is so much confusion surrounding this new system. I also agree with your opinion that enforcement agencies would really struggle with the time and money involved in pursuing a complaint of this manner. At some point the real world trumps academic. As much as I enjoy a good gooberment is out to get you theory, I really see this rid thing fairly innocuous. If someone is within a quarter of a mile from me and is really upset by the presence of the drone I would most likely be happy to fly elsewhere. I've had people freak out from my having a camera but never a drone to date. Having said that, I would take neither into Deal NJ. Again real world trumps and it's always wise to be situationally aware.

I think we know where this thing will eventually lead. Just another device on the internet of things.

 

[lookout]

Ok, so here's a question for you. Am I correct in my perception?

If our hot tub voyeur had operational rid the hot tub users would have had to call local police and or FAA and one of those agencies would have had to set up a sting operation with a receiver within Wifi distance of said hot tub in hopes that the drone would return and flight data could be recorded.

If you're in a hot tub you might have some protection, but if you was skinny dipping and you get out while it's overhead...might be another problem.