REMOTE ID IN MAVIC 2 PRO

[mavic3usa]

Again, looking for good information, if you know how they are going to do it, please dispell the ignorance, don't just because troll.

Since I don't work at DJI and I cannot predict the future, I cannot say for sure how it will be done. I can only take an educated guess; keyword being "educated." But....I know for sure how they won't be doing it (aka read bizarre post #55).

 

[gajman]

Since I don't work at DJI and I cannot predict the future, I cannot say for sure how it will be done. I can only take an educated guess; keyword being "educated." But....I know for sure how they won't be doing it (aka read bizarre post #55).

So then those of us who have some experience with digital transmission in an SCPC environment may be wondering how you convert a device to MCPC, or a TDMA environment and still meet the FAAs rule making. You are right, it is complex, I was hoping for a conversation with someone who might understand the hardware on the aircraft. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be magic. As an example two carriers into a single environment would cut each signal by 3dB. Half power, range is diminished by d squared. A lot to think about and resolve in two months. Just hoping for a little insight.

 

[mavic3usa]

So then those of us who have some experience with digital transmission in an SCPC environment may be wondering how you convert a device to MCPC, or a TDMA environment and still meet the FAAs rule making. You are right, it is complex, I was hoping for a conversation with someone who might understand the hardware on the aircraft. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be magic. As an example two carriers into a single environment would cut each signal by 3dB. Half power, range is diminished by d squared. A lot to think about and resolve in two months. Just hoping for a little insight.

Perhaps but maybe you can have that discussion with the mightypilot if he is so inclined. Not interested in going off the rails with you taking advantage of forum members knowledge (or lack thereof) just because we don't know for sure, you find it ok to start talking nonsense about connected cellphone devices, LTE, and/or the Internet when it comes to RID. At this point, I'm just going to wait and see unless something new comes up. Thanks.

 

[SethB]

Find the official word from DJI on RID firmware for Mavic 2 Pro/Zoom here:

Remote ID Statement (07/01/2023)

DJI, the global leader in civilian drones and creative camera technology, is dedicated to providing our valued customers with important updates regarding compliance with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA)remote identification (remote ID) regulation. Remote ID refers to a drone's...

forum.dji.com

Dec. 31 “at the latest” is 3-1/2 months late for most of us in the USA. I’m glad we’ll have it though.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Well then source your information on the older aircraft. DJI has not been forthcoming. There is no Bluetooth on the older ships. So you telling me that they are going to broadcast LTE from a Mavic w Pro because they sure as heck are not going to send Bluetooth. If you have better information provide it. They have some interesting issues to deal with if they are going to use existing equipment on the older ships. Please share your grand wisdom and stop just kvetching.

You are so far off in the weeds it's really your job to inform yourself, not mine. Try Google.

If someone claimed humans had two hearts on a forum I'd tell them they're nuts. If they demanded I prove humans don't, I wouldn't bother with such nonsense.

You're free to go on believing whatever bizarre things you want to, and posting about it. And I will continue to call you out on it and warning others of your misinformation.

 

[BigAl07]

So then those of us who have some experience with digital transmission in an SCPC environment may be wondering how you convert a device to MCPC, or a TDMA environment and still meet the FAAs rule making. You are right, it is complex, I was hoping for a conversation with someone who might understand the hardware on the aircraft. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be magic. As an example two carriers into a single environment would cut each signal by 3dB. Half power, range is diminished by d squared. A lot to think about and resolve in two months. Just hoping for a little insight.

@gajman , with all due respect, merely tossing out specs/terms etc that boggle the mere mortals here does not prove your theory in the least.

DJI is using the existing transmission signal to currently transmit a large portion of the Data that RID will require so why in the world would they utilize a totally different transmission source just to include the additional information? It isn't logical,, feasible, or cost effective.

Keep in mind that one of the earliest and largest complaints about RID was the fear it would require some type of Cellular device and would ground those of us who operate in a cellular free environment. It was quickly noted that Cellular would not be in the path. Also, a large portion of us do not use a Cell Phone in any capacity for UAS operations but utilize Tablets w/o cellular connectivity. Your theory would entail having the UAS connect to our viewing device (non cellular iPad for me) AND an additional connection to my cell phone? Absurd and very much misinformation. Again I say all of this with all due respect because you seem to have a very deep understanding on communications etc but I'm convinced you're missed the boat in terms of how DJI is going to transmit the RID data directly from the aircraft.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Perhaps but maybe you can have that discussion with the mightypilot if he is so inclined.

There's no discussion to be had. RID in the US is being broadcast from the drone as a wifi beacon. Period. DJI drones with wifi already implemented (re: Quick Transfer) or an SDR capable of being configured to broadcast wifi are being updated via firmware to broadcast RID over wifi beacon. The Mavic 2 was recently added to the list.

That's it. It's not complicated. It's trivial to find all this out in minutes with some internet searching.

The only relevance LTE has to RID is it was included in the regs/spec as another means of RID broadcast. This is there for future commercial BVLOS operations, like Amazon drone delivery. It is not intended for VLOS recreational and commercial operations where the controller and pilot are directly connected to and have direct visual control over the drone

 

[gajman]

There's no discussion to be had. RID in the US is being broadcast from the drone as a wifi beacon. Period. DJI drones with wifi already implemented (re: Quick Transfer) or an SDR capable of being configured to broadcast wifi are being updated via firmware to broadcast RID over wifi beacon. The Mavic 2 was recently added to the list.

That's it. It's not complicated. It's trivial to find all this out in minutes with some internet searching.

The only relevance LTE has to RID is it was included in the regs/spec as another means of RID broadcast. This is there for future commercial BVLOS operations, like Amazon drone delivery. It is not intended for VLOS recreational and commercial operations where the controller and pilot are directly connected to and have direct visual control over the drone

Thank you for an informed response. I will look into it. It may be thst simple. It becomes a bit more co.plex on the receive side. As I read the FAA dat
a on the network I am a bit confused about the receive side. But thank you fir the information, it us what I was looking for. I have this need to understand how ut works. DJI becomes so proprietary that it complicates the communications.

 

[gajman]

It appears that DJI is promising an upgrade in December of this year. I will use Dronetags until then. Assuming the FAA certifies their firmware fix, all should be good after that.

I am still interested in thre how, thectechnology of doing it intrigues ne. More resesrch.

 

[BudWalker]

Regarding the question/confusion that RID requires a cell network. The DJI Avata requires a cell phone to implement RID. But it doesn't have to be connected to a cell network. The cell phone just provides the GPS location of the pilot that is, in turn, inserted in the Avata's RID broadcast. All that is required of the cell phone is GPS and that it be able to run the Fly App - it doesn't have to be able to connect to a cell network.

When the upgrade happens it may well be that the mobile device that runs the Go 4 App be GPS capable.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Regarding the question/confusion that RID requires a cell network. The DJI Avata requires a cell phone to implement RID. But it doesn't have to be connected to a cell network. The cell phone just provides the GPS location of the pilot that is, in turn, inserted in the Avata's RID broadcast. All that is required of the cell phone is GPS and that it be able to run the Fly App - it doesn't have to be able to connect to a cell network.

To be clear, the Avata requires the location of the control station to be compliant with RID, it does not require a cell phone. A tablet with GPS and no cellular radio running DJI Fly will do just fine.

Or, the Integra goggles, which have GPS built-in. No attached device is necessary at all.

So the connected cell phone on the Avata with the Goggles 2 or Goggles V2 is simply an implementation convenience to obtain GPS, nothing more. LTE and cellular networks or service play no role at all in DJI's design decision to leverage GPS capability in cell phones.

When the upgrade happens it may well be that the mobile device that runs the Go 4 App be GPS capable.

I believe that's already the case, there's no "may" about it. When I (used to) fly my Mavic 2 Pro I ran GO4 on my cell phone, connected to the RC. GO4 continously knew where I was, in addition to the aircraft, throughout the flight.

 

[BudWalker]

To be clear, the Avata requires the location of the control station to be compliant with RID, it does not require a cell phone. A tablet with GPS and no cellular radio running DJI Fly will do just fine.

Or, the Integra goggles, which have GPS built-in. No attached device is necessary at all.

So the connected cell phone on the Avata with the Goggles 2 or Goggles V2 is simply an implementation convenience to obtain GPS, nothing more. LTE and cellular networks or service play no role at all in DJI's design decision to leverage GPS capability in cell phones.



I believe that's already the case, there's no "may" about it. When I (used to) fly my Mavic 2 Pro I ran GO4 on my cell phone, connected to the RC. GO4 continously knew where I was, in addition to the aircraft, throughout the flight.

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. The fact that a cell phone is typically used for GPS data may have led some to mistakenly assume that a cell connection was required.

I use an iPad without GPS as the mobile device connected to the controller. The app GPS data fields in both the .txt and .DAT logs are empty.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. The fact that a cell phone is typically used for GPS data may have led some to mistakenly assume that a cell connection was required.

I use an iPad without GPS as the mobile device connected to the controller. The app GPS data fields in both the .txt and .DAT logs are empty.

What aircraft?

 

[BudWalker]

What aircraft?

Sorry, I should have been explicit. Mavic 2 Pro.

 

[Rocket1lf]

I just spoke with DJI and they told me that if you have a smart controller, there will be a software update that will make it compliant. I sure hope that they're correct as I own two Mavic 2"s.

 

[mavic3usa]

I just spoke with DJI and they told me that if you have a smart controller, there will be a software update that will make it compliant. I sure hope that they're correct as I own two Mavic 2"s.

Makes no sense. The Mavic 3 is RID compliant because it has an FAA DoC but the DJI RCPro is not listed which means the Mavic 3 is complaint regardless of the remote controller. Unless I am missing something, there's no way to make an smart controller truly RID compliant unless 1) the drone get the proper RID software and 2) the drone get FAA DoC. So unless the Mavic 2 drone itself gets a DoC based on "new software" then it's not going to matter what happens with the remote controller(which undoubtedly will need a software update to work with the RID drone firmware).

Perhaps this is what DJI is referring to, you get your smart controller updated when the drone gets DoC firmware? My understanding is a smart controller cannot get a DoC but these days, who knows since we don't know what tricks DJI has up their sleeve and the FAA will DoC a ham sandwich so I guess anything is possible. Did you ask DJI when the actual Mavic 2 drone is going to get RID?

If the drone does not broadcast properly but the remote does....not sure that will suffice; I dunno.

 

[SethB]

Makes no sense. The Mavic 3 is RID compliant because it has an FAA DoC but the DJI RCPro is not listed which means the Mavic 3 is complaint regardless of the remote controller. Unless I am missing something, there's no way to make an smart controller truly RID compliant unless 1) the drone get the proper RID software and 2) the drone get FAA DoC. So unless the Mavic 2 drone itself gets a DoC based on "new software" then it's not going to matter what happens with the remote controller(which undoubtedly will need a software update to work with the RID drone firmware)…

If you will read back to Post #64 you’ll see a link to DJI’s announcement on their forum that the Mavic 2 Pro and Zoom will have RID firmware updates available by the end of the year.

A bit late, but way better than “never”.

It makes some sense to me that an original Smart Controller RM-500 or whatever has to also be compliant for the Mavic 2 to be approved. Many of us purchased with that controller. I did look back on the specs a few days ago, a Smart Controller *does* have internal GPS+GLONASS as well as WIFI and Bluetooth.

 

[mavic3usa]

If you will read back to Post #64 you’ll see a link to DJI’s announcement on their forum that the Mavic 2 Pro and Zoom will have RID firmware updates available by the end of the year.

A bit late, but way better than “never”.

It makes some sense to me that an original Smart Controller RM-500 or whatever has to also be compliant for the Mavic 2 to be approved. Many of us purchased with that controller. I did look back on the specs a few days ago, a Smart Controller *does* have internal GPS+GLONASS as well as WIFI and Bluetooth.

I saw that and I'm happy if they do. Just don't know the benefit of calling DJI asking about the smart controller. Also just making sure to point out it makes no sense to make the smart controller "compliant" but not the drone and based on DJI announcement (which we all saw long time ago), it makes no sense to make the drone complaint without making it work with the smart controller. I'm not the FAA so I don't know what they are thinking but it doesn't seem possible to certify the drone as RID complaint unless ALL remotes are capable and compatible. IOW, if DJI can upgrade the drone but for some reason cannot get the smart controller to work, then the drone doesn't get DoC. Hence my confusion about asking about the RC. The RC will never be "complaint."

 

[Rocket1lf]

I can only go by what DJI said. I specifically asked if the Mavic 2 was going to be RID compliant and the person asked what controller I had. I told her that I had a smart controller, RM 500, and she told me that it will be compliant with that controller. She said that there will be a software update for it later this year.

 

[mavic3usa]

I can only go by what DJI said. I specifically asked if the Mavic 2 was going to be RID compliant and the person asked what controller I had. I told her that I had a smart controller, RM 500, and she told me that it will be compliant with that controller. She said that there will be a software update for it later this year.

Ok fair enough. Not sure how that will work unless the drone will be complaint with both the RM500 and the base RC (and any other controller you happen to use) + phone which begs the question why would DJI ask about your controller? So let's say only the use of the RM500 will make the M2 RID complaint but if you use any other controller only (without a phone), your M2 is not complaint....that's going to be interesting, for sure.

Maybe her answer would have been "you have to connect your phone if you not going to use RM500, otherwise the drone (when updated) won't lift-off" had you mentioned you were using some other controller. In any case, I still do not believe you will see RM500 in the FAA DoC. But I get the confusion....just like a bunch of drones already on the market, you have to upgrade all the equipment in order to be RID complaint but the goggles and controllers are never listed as "compliant." Maybe capable is a better word.

Thanks for letting us know. Glad I still have my RM500, we'll see I guess.