Roof Top Landing - And DJI Refresh (nightmare)

[Lon Denard]

And to offer up another target - I agree with the OP that the problem is between DJI and UPS and that DJI should immediately send out a replacement.

DJI should also look into the initial cause. For the M2 to announce it is landing in a non-suitable spot and not respond to controls to cancel sure sounds like a bug to me. It would probably take several similar occurrences before they admit their problem but then should refund the charges to the OP (and the rest) and update Refresh to show no uses.

That sounds reasonable if the OP had presented this as a possible bug to DJI. You have to remember that they have no idea that this is anything other than user error. In fact, if you check Sar's evaluation of the crash, the log shows the OP initiating the landing sequence by pressing down on the stick. I don't particularly enjoy the position of DJI defender or whatever but reality has to play a part here.

1. OP crashes his drone. Fault/no fault doesn't matter.

2. Op initiates DJI Care Refresh claim with expedited return (that doesn't cost any extra, btw) and ships the drone to DJI.

3. DJI receives the drone and ships the replacement THE SAME DAY. Which is pretty good as far as I'm concerned.

4. UPS picks up the unit and loses it.

5. OP contacts DJI and they promise to look into it and have by all accounts.

6. OP posts here and an interesting dual tiered discussion ensues.

 

[sar104]

I'm going to run some tests and see out of curiosity. I've already tried to duplicate this situation on some rooftops without success. I took off 100' above the ground and skimmed along it at 3-5'. I then tried it along a another rooftop of similar height. My drone never tried to land or misbehave in any way. I'm still not prepared to state that it's impossible but I can't get it to do it.

On a lighter note, who's also reminded of the scene from Die Hard 2 where they set the landing assist to a value lower than ground level?

At that 3 - 5 ft height did you apply full down throttle?

 

[Lon Denard]

At that 3 - 5 ft height did you apply full down throttle?

No sir. The OP presented this incident as the drone initiating the landing without his input. I was testing for that possibility. I have full confidence that my drone will land if I ask it to.

 

[sar104]

Okay, let's take the "evil DJI" out of the equation. If I ship you a package through UPS and UPS loses it, you all believe that I'm obligated to send you another one. Is that a fair assessment of your position? Regardless of any other circumstances? Okay.

As I've said, I'm strictly interested in your opinions. I've already checked the "law" in the matter and read DJI's policy. As far as I can tell, DJI isn't legally, contractually, or as a matter of policy obligated to do anything in these situations. I'm sure that they will and I'm sure that they do. I was just honestly curious as to your perception of entitlement or DJI's obligation. As I've said, this discussion has no bearing on your situation. It will neither help nor hinder your situation. You are venting and perhaps looking for shoulders to cry on, some agree, some don't but in the end it really doesn't matter. Things will play out as they will regardless of this forum's opinion. Good luck.

When they ship they insure the package, generally through the shipping company. Until the purchaser (receiver) accepts the package it still belongs to the shipper. The receiver, in general, can't even initiate a trace or investigation with the shipping company - that's up to the shipper to do. And the insurance claim is by the shipper, not the receiver. So yes - if the item is not delivered then the shipper has not fulfilled their obligation, even if the loss was not their fault.

 

[sar104]

No sir. The OP presented this incident as the drone initiating the landing without his input. I was testing for that possibility. I have full confidence that my drone will land if I ask it to.

So in the graph in post #54 you will notice that full down throttle was applied. That was what caused it to land.

 

[ac0j]

There we go! Everyone satisfied? However, The OP NEVER suggested that it was NOT his fault. He said maybe it was maybe it wasnt. Didnt care and wanted refresh.
All he wants is something for his money. DJI is ahead the purchase price and $120 refresh payment, and has the drone.
UPS is paid for shipping, also not out anything. OP has spent money and currently has NOTHING. That is what the thread is about.

 

[Lon Denard]

When they ship they insure the package, generally through the shipping company. Until the purchaser (receiver) accepts the package it still belongs to the shipper. The receiver, in general, can't even initiate a trace or investigation with the shipping company - that's up to the shipper to do. And the insurance claim is by the shipper, not the receiver. So yes - if the item is not delivered then the shipper has not fulfilled their obligation, even if the loss was not their fault.

I agree that DJI will take care of the OP, I disagree that they are "obligated" to do so before UPS conducts their investigation and they are reimbursed. That's all.

 

[Lon Denard]

So in the graph in post #54 you will notice that full down throttle was applied. That was what caused it to land.

Yes sir. I've never had a doubt that the crash was the OP's fault and this "bug idea" was purely smoke and mirrors. I merely checked it out to be certain. I actually believe that we are on the same side of the crash question but opposed in regards to DJI's obligation.

 

[sar104]

I agree that DJI will take care of the OP, I disagree that they are "obligated" to do so before UPS conducts their investigation and they are reimbursed. That's all.

Then yes - agreed. While it can be very frustrating, that is the process.

 

[sar104]

Yes sir. I've never had a doubt that the crash was the OP's fault and this "bug idea" was purely smoke and mirrors. I merely checked it out to be certain. I actually believe that we are on the same side of the crash question but opposed in regards to DJI's obligation.

No - I think that we agree on both in that case.

 

[ac0j]

OK, I guess he was sort of convinced it was a bug, BUT, he didnt send in for warranty anyway, he sent in for refresh. So at that point he took responsibility for the crash from jump street.
This argument has no value to the thread anyway.

 

[Lon Denard]

There we go! Everyone satisfied? However, The OP NEVER suggested that it was NOT his fault. He said maybe it was maybe it wasnt. Didnt care and wanted refresh.
All he wants is something for his money. DJI is ahead the purchase price and $120 refresh payment, and has the drone.
UPS is paid for shipping, also not out anything. OP has spent money and currently has NOTHING. That is what the thread is about.

In a way that's true but there were questions raised as to the drone's reliability that needed to be checked out. I certainly want to know if my M2P will suddenly decide to land on its own for no reason.

The question of DJI's responsibility is purely academic from my perspective.

 

[rfc]

In terms of the event, this was a commanded landing. At 1017.1 s into the flight, as the aircraft crossed the structure, close to the roof, the VPS system indicated a height of 1.4 m. At that point, full down throttle was applied which, at that height off the ground, the FC interpreted as a command to land and shut down. Which it then did.

It certainly would not be the first time a pilot reported one thing and actually did another, although in this case, given the OP's experience, it's still a little surprising.
Or, is it possible, if looking at the screen during flight, the OP sees the roof and means to increase altitude rapidly, but does the opposite.
What's curious is that in the setup before the shot, his altitude is much higher than it was on the "return trip". What caused the A/C to descend between the time it left view of the tower and then returned?

 

[Lon Denard]

OK, I guess he was sort of convinced it was a bug, BUT, he didnt send in for warranty anyway, he sent in for refresh. So at that point he took responsibility for the crash from jump street.
This argument has no value to the thread anyway.

I actually agree and have stated such several times. I was merely interested in opinions of DJI's obligation. A discussion and debate of opposing viewpoints. Opinion based rhetoric is rarely of any intrinsic value in my experience.

 

[Lon Denard]

I have dealt with UPS several times and DJI a few times. I have no doubt that UPS will take care of DJI and DJI will in turn take care of the OP. The time frame involved is the question.

If you'd like a positive spin, here's one. I purchased my original Mavic Pro back in May of last year. I'd had it for about a month and half and decided to take it downtown for a quick golden hour flight. I was lining up my next shot, and with my drone hovering, I looked away to scope it out. When I turned back, I had a bit of trouble sighting my drone but saw it after a few secs. However to my dismay, it started flying rapidly to the left without my input! I immediately applied right stick to correct and I heard a crashing sound to my right. I looked just in time to see my drone hit the water/rocks. It dawned on me that there was another guy down stream flying his Mavic and I had flown mine into a bridge mistaking his for mine! Hahaha! Anyway, I could see the drone sticking out of the water and I took a picture of it. Decided that I wasn't going in after it and went home.

So I contacted DJI to see what my options were, if any. I sent in my logs thinking that I had nothing to lose. Of course, the logs showed me flying into the bridge like it was almost on purpose! The rep couldn't help me based on warranty but reminded me that I had Care Refresh and asked if I wanted to initiate a claim and send my drone back for a replacement? I had to tell him that it had crashed into a river but asked if a picture of the drone would help? I sent him the picture. A couple days later, I got an email from DJI saying they would replace my drone under Care Refresh as a one time courtesy. I paid the fee and week or so later I had a new drone. I don't know about everyone else's experiences with DJI customer support but they took care of me when they didn't have to. I appreciate that.

 

[ac0j]

I actually agree and have stated such several times. I was merely interested in opinions of DJI's obligation. A discussion and debate of opposing viewpoints. Opinion based rhetoric is rarely of any intrinsic value in my experience.

It boils down to what they SHOULD to and what they CHOOSE to do.
Your position also could go for the OP. HE has no obligation to send HIS drone till the new one comes to him first. It is insurance for him just like you claim for DJI. The difference is DJI has ALL the money AND the drone, so what do they have to lose by sending the replacement and dealing with UPS?
Neither is wrong or right, but why put ALL the risk on the customer that already sent money in contemplation of receiving something. Twice.

 

[Lon Denard]

It boils down to what they SHOULD to and what they CHOOSE to do.
Your position also could go for the OP. HE has no obligation to send HIS drone till the new one comes to him first. It is insurance for him just like you claim for DJI. The difference is DJI has ALL the money AND the drone, so what do they have to lose by sending the replacement and dealing with UPS?
Neither is wrong or right, but why put ALL the risk on the customer that already sent money in contemplation of receiving something. Twice.

Ooo bad choice of examples.... The Care Refresh contract that you agree to states that you are obligated to send the broken drone in to DJI to receive a replacement. DJI Care Refresh is not insurance. They could be out a drone as well.

 

[ac0j]

Ooo bad choice of examples.... The Care Refresh contract that you agree to states that you are obligated to send the broken drone in to DJI to receive a replacement. DJI Care Refresh is not insurance. They could be out a drone as well.

He did that, If the bad one would have gotten lost on the way to DJI, Then what? DJI still has money, and the replacement drone.
It was AFTER the OP met HIS obligation that the problem begins.

 

[NAUIDIVER]

Okay, let's take the "evil DJI" out of the equation. If I ship you a package through UPS and UPS loses it, you all believe that I'm obligated to send you another one. Is that a fair assessment of your position? Regardless of any other circumstances? Okay.

As I've said, I'm strictly interested in your opinions. I've already checked the "law" in the matter and read DJI's policy. As far as I can tell, DJI isn't legally, contractually, or as a matter of policy obligated to do anything in these situations. I'm sure that they will and I'm sure that they do. I was just honestly curious as to your perception of entitlement or DJI's obligation. As I've said, this discussion has no bearing on your situation. It will neither help nor hinder your situation. You are venting and perhaps looking for shoulders to cry on, some agree, some don't but in the end it really doesn't matter. Things will play out as they will regardless of this forum's opinion. Good luck.

Actually, my wife is an attorney and member of the NYS Bar. DJI is responsible for the package until it's delivered. She read the TOS and I trust her legal professional opinion on the matter...

 

[NAUIDIVER]

In terms of the event, this was a commanded landing. At 1017.1 s into the flight, as the aircraft crossed the structure, close to the roof, the VPS system indicated a height of 1.4 m. At that point, full down throttle was applied which, at that height off the ground, the FC interpreted as a command to land and shut down. Which it then did.

View attachment 47034

Great analysis. Thank you. Though I think I see it slightly different: the landing seems to have initiated on it's own prior to throttle down. And though I may have briefly gone throttle down inadvertently, I also went full up immediately to no avail... Isn't that what you graphing shows?