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Technical Feasibility Reality Check

I have a second set of goggles that are set to audience mode. I had video quality issues with the audience goggles that I've managed to improve but not fully fix. Take a look here
Audience Mode Quality
Thanks, I took a look. Those issue reports were from July of last year. I wonder if DJI has addressed this issue in the interim?

This has prompted me to start a list of questions that I'm gong to ask DJI about directly, with this being the first one.

:)

I got my dual band patch antennas from getFPV.com but they seem to have only the single band version now. I'm checking with getFPV now to see they still have an dual band version. Make sure the description explicitly says it's made to install on the DJI Goggles V2.
This is the kind of mod I'd be willing to do, a straight "bolt on" to an existing, integrated DJI system. I happily added strobes to all my Mini-2s to improve VLOS range, and I'll happily do this if I need to do so to get better audience video quality.

My approach to learning fpv flying was the same as how you want to learn fpv flying. I found using the simulator helped a lot, specifically the DJI simulator that connects to the goggles. My first incident could have been avoided if I had used the simulator to rehearse using the pause button.
I intend to make extensive use of the stimulator! Is this something I might be able to get in advance, or is it only available when you actually buy the FPV?
Another bit of advice is don't fall into thinking you can land the FPV in manual mode. I always switch to N or S mode when it comes time to land it.
So the three modes are Normal, Sport, and Manual? And Normal and Sport modes work similarly to those modes on other DJI drones? And only in Manual mode do things start to get hinkey?

That's what I would expect, but an OP seemed to suggest earlier that there was no such thing as "Normal" mode on the FPV.

Thx!

TCS
 
...What are you trying to optimize by doing this, instead of just buying the DJI FPV package? Save a few bucks? Why would I want to use a funky looking controller and generic batteries? What "other quads" are you thinking I might use?
🤣 LOL ... yeah, why not just buy the DJI FPV drone kit &...

- Pay 5 times more for each set of props

- Pay 3 times more for each battery that never can be used to anything else than just the DJI FPV drone

- Get something made of plastic instead of durable carbon fiber

- Get something that is unnecessary heavy affecting both the flying characteristics & the battery consumption

- Just send it in for Care together with with some $ & wait for it to return, if it gets damaged... instead of loosen a couple hex screws & "tinker"

- Get something that I can't adjust to improve/change the flying characteristics either by changing the payload or adjust the FW ... even if I wanted too

- Not need to use 😂 the black "funky" DJI controller ... even though I never will be able to use the one I got for anything else even if I wanted too

Jeez ... what was I thinking 😁
 
🤣 LOL ... yeah, why not just buy the DJI FPV drone kit &...

- Pay 5 times more for each set of props
The cost of props is dirt in the context of the total cost of an FPV operation.

And I'm firmly convinced that if I approach FPV flying with caution, and incrementally, rather than with reckless abandon, that I won't be needing to do very many prop replacements.

You seem to have a failure-oriented approach to flying drones. I have no interest in pushing the edges, and the edges are where things get broken.
- Get something made of plastic instead of durable carbon fiber
I'm not looking to take the thing into *battle*. I just plan to fly carefully.
Get something that is unnecessary heavy affecting both the flying characteristics & the battery consumption
You seem to care deeply about things that just don't matter to me very much.

Do you understand the economic concept of "Utility Function"?

Just send it in for Care together with with some $ & wait for it to return, if it gets damaged... instead of loosen a couple hex screws & "tinker"
I'm clearly a more patient man than you are. Perhaps, it's the wisdom that comes with advanced age...

;-)

I'll happily replace a prop if it breaks, but I have a safe-and-successful orientation toward flying, and I don't expect to break many props. Or much of anything else.
Get something that I can't adjust to improve/change the flying characteristics either by changing the payload or adjust the FW ... even if I wanted too
I really don't care. I want to get something that meets my needs. If my needs change, I'll deal with it. But I don't like going into systems acquisitions with the plan that it will be an ever changing Rube Goldberg device.
Not need to use 😂 the black "funky" DJI controller ... even though I never will be able to use the one I got for anything else even if I wanted too
Why in the world would I care if the controller is black and "funky", whatever that might mean. Surely you wouldn't judge a controller by it's skin color...would you? Better to judge it by the content of it's character.
Jeez ... what was I thinking 😁
You were thinking that your utility function is "better" than mine, which is a fundamentally religious position.

You stick to your religion, and I'll stick to mine...but thanks for the dance!

;-)

TCS
 
@Chaosrider
Thanks, I took a look. Those issue reports were from July of last year. I wonder if DJI has addressed this issue in the interim?

I would guess that this issue has not been addressed. It's been around for quite a while.

I intend to make extensive use of the stimulator! Is this something I might be able to get in advance, or is it only available when you actually buy the FPV?

To use the DJI simulator you will need a set of FPV goggles and a FPV controller. You may be able to just use the iPad display and fingers instead the control sticks on the controller. But, this is totally useless.

There are several simulators around that operate by being connected via USB to a controller. I used Velocidrone and DRLSim. Take a look here
DRL Sim

Here is a YouTube that shows the pixelation issue
This is after I installed the antennas. The problem can be seen at the very end. Before the antennas were installed the pixelation started happening as the FPV turned and started down the rows.
 
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The cost of props is dirt in the context of the total cost of an FPV operation.

And I'm firmly convinced that if I approach FPV flying with caution, and incrementally, rather than with reckless abandon, that I won't be needing to do very many prop replacements.

You seem to have a failure-oriented approach to flying drones. I have no interest in pushing the edges, and the edges are where things get broken.

I'm not looking to take the thing into *battle*. I just plan to fly carefully.

You seem to care deeply about things that just don't matter to me very much.

Do you understand the economic concept of "Utility Function"?


I'm clearly a more patient man than you are. Perhaps, it's the wisdom that comes with advanced age...

;-)

I'll happily replace a prop if it breaks, but I have a safe-and-successful orientation toward flying, and I don't expect to break many props. Or much of anything else.

I really don't care. I want to get something that meets my needs. If my needs change, I'll deal with it. But I don't like going into systems acquisitions with the plan that it will be an ever changing Rube Goldberg device.

Why in the world would I care if the controller is black and "funky", whatever that might mean. Surely you wouldn't judge a controller by it's skin color...would you? Better to judge it by the content of it's character.

You were thinking that your utility function is "better" than mine, which is a fundamentally religious position.

You stick to your religion, and I'll stick to mine...but thanks for the dance!

;-)

TCS
You really is a funny guy ... due to some unknown reason you ridicule every single way I try to assist you & share my personal experience by merely inform you of possible alternatives that you perhaps not have thought of that might or might not suit your immediate & future needs.

The simple truth buddy, is that you don't know me well enough to judge my "wisdom" nor what I "care" about ... but it's pretty clear that your kind of wisdom that apparently comes from advanced age is closely connected with arrogance & disrespect.

You go with your religion, utility function, patience, or whatever you want to call it... why would I mind?
 
Feeling like I'm in the cockpit is *exactly* the experience I'm looking for!

I've been a Part 61 pilot for 40 years, instrument and multi-engine rated. I've always been unusually good at unusual attitude management. Perhaps, because I have unusual attitudes about so many things...

I don't get airsick.

I was training to be a flight instructor, and I was most of the way there before I ran out of money. There's been a fair amount of controversy about spin training for pilots, and at some point (60s?), somebody concluded that more people were dying during spin training, than spins during actual operations. I don't know if that statistical analysis was correct, but the decision was to delete spin training as a requirement to get your private license.

But I *wanted* to do it! The FBO I was flying from had exactly one airplane that was legal for spins, an old C-150 Aerobat. But I was never able to schedule me, my instructor, the plane, and good spin training weather all at the same time. So, no spin training, until about 10 years ago.

Later in the 80s IIRC, Embry Riddle won a fight with the FAA, and it was determined that even instructors didn't need to get spin training, that spin *awareness* training was sufficient.

I thought that was a crock, at least for me as an instructor. So I found a guy who did spin training in a Super Decathlon, which I took. It was actually a full-up mini-aerobatics course. I was good at it, and I loved it! He taught me a bunch of WWI dogfight maneuvers.

The Mini-2 actually has an FPV mode, which lets the camera move around FPV-ish, without changing the way the drone actually flies. I think it's fascinating.

What I'd *really* love would be if there was someone near me with a DJI FPV who would be willing to give me a demo, which I would happily pay for. Carson City, Nevada, anybody?

Pilot Institute has a free "Deep Dive" course on the DJI FPV, which I may go watch again.

Thx!

TCS
The in the cockpit feeling is very possible. With my Mavic Pro and Goggles RE I can put the goggles in gimbal head tracking mode and the gimbal moves anywhere the person wearing the goggles looks while I fly the drone.

Mike
 
Interesting read.

It’s no surprise but still a shame to see the usual issue of people being unable or unwilling to step outside of the view of their own use cases and interests and allow that others will be totally satisfied with an experience that would not suit them.

I can appreciate both sides of the argument to some extent.

I’ve been flying a long time, manned aircraft both fixed wing and rotary wing which sadly I can no longer pass medical endorsement for and radio controlled for over 30 years again fixed wing and heli as a display pilot and instructor as well as just for fun. I greatly enjoyed it in it’s day but these days the urge to fly on the bleeding edge with my heart in my mouth has mostly passed and I get enough stimulation flying as a commercial remote pilot.

So, about 8 months ago I bought a DJI FPV setup with two flymore kits (it was cheaper here in Australia to buy an extra flymore than just buy the extra two batteries, you figure) along with the motion controller and all the trimmings. So far I have exactly zero regrets. I put the lack of regrets down to knowing exactly what I was going into before I bought it and as @Chaosrider seems to be in the same situation then I say “lay on McDuff”.

Many people seem to feel that the terms “acro” and “fpv” are synonymous for the same thing and really they are not. “FPV” is exactly that, first person view and when I stick the white DJI goggles on the head of the site co-ordinator so he can ride along while I fly the Phantom 4 around the work site that’s just what he gets. A first person view. An acro or 3d quad is a different kettle of fish again and if that’s what you want then it’s best that is what you buy. A DJI FPV drone is not going to suit you. In short there are acro fpv drones and cinematic fpv drones, be sure what you want and make sure you buy it.

That’s not to say you can’t “brew your own” cinermatic fpv drone or buy some fairly comprehensive bind and fly units but that’s not for everyone. People like to remain in the ecosystem they are familiar with and don’t like to tinker extensively, there’s a whole host of reasons. It’s their life, their money so why not?

Let’s be totally honest here. It’s not like you can absolutely never ever fly your DJI drone acro. If you have the skill set and then depth of pocket for repairs when it goes pear shaped then have at it. There are some talented pilots who do some amazing stuff with the DJI FPV drone, check out Ken “originaldobo” on YouTube for some examples. He’s broken several as good as he is but accepts the realities and flys without fear for best result. I’ve flown mine acro a few times but I admit that it was at over 200 feet. No flying the gap or diving the tower for me. If I was going to do that I’d be flying something much more like what @slup is flying.

Also be aware, the reports are correct. The camera on the DJI FPV is not without it’s faults. That’s not to say it’s awful but it’s dynamic range is somewhat limited if flying in low light. It’s more on a par with the original Mavic Pro than say a Mavic 2 Pro but it’s still good enough for some great footage if you know how to use it to it’s best potential and if it still doesn’t meet your needs then mount a GoPro on it like most FPV pilots do anyway. It’s heavy but it doesn’t lack for power to carry the payload.

Addressing the fragility side of it, I think that’s mostly misconception. It’s not that fragile compared to the average fpv quad nor are the materials that sub par in real world terms. What I mean by that is that in an equal impact it’s not much more likely to break than anything else but you must keep in mind that a 2lb DJI FPV drone hitting an object at 5mph is probably undergoing the same forces as a 100g fpv quad does when it hits something at 50mph (I’m sure someone else will happily do the math for us here 😝). So that “equal impact” is achieved at a much lower speed. I’ve fitted the optional arm braces to mine but I’m still well aware that if I pile it into a solid object at the 60mph available in sport mode that the only reason for me to go and pick up the pieces is for reasons of environmental responsibility lol.

I wanted something plug and play that was easy to fly and able to do close terrain proximity flying at speed to add that perspective as well as bank while turning perspective to my work and social media videos. I also wanted GPS, RTH and emergency stop stop and hold functions. I’m time poor and I didn’t want to build it myself and I didn’t want to mix and match off the shelf. I just wanted to buy it and fly it. I’m yet to prang it because I don’t kid myself it’s an acro drone.

I researched my subject and bought as I felt. I’m yet to regret it other than the knowledge that the resale value is pants and that the next one will be better but isn’t that always the way?

We need to accept that people should follow their own path and that while our own path may be better for us personally it is not always doing someone a favour to convince others that our path is the only path.

Regards
Ari

Edit Sorry for the wall of words *wince*
 
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🤣 LOL ... yeah, why not just buy the DJI FPV drone kit &...

- Pay 5 times more for each set of props

- Pay 3 times more for each battery that never can be used to anything else than just the DJI FPV drone

- Get something made of plastic instead of durable carbon fiber

- Get something that is unnecessary heavy affecting both the flying characteristics & the battery consumption

- Just send it in for Care together with with some $ & wait for it to return, if it gets damaged... instead of loosen a couple hex screws & "tinker"

- Get something that I can't adjust to improve/change the flying characteristics either by changing the payload or adjust the FW ... even if I wanted too

- Not need to use 😂 the black "funky" DJI controller ... even though I never will be able to use the one I got for anything else even if I wanted too

Jeez ... what was I thinking 😁
You really is a funny guy ... due to some unknown reason you ridicule every single way I try to assist you & share my personal experience by merely inform you of possible alternatives that you perhaps not have thought of that might or might not suit your immediate & future needs.
You're the one who constantly tries to ridicule people considering the DJI FPV as seen above and completely ignoring their points. He's told you exactly why one was more to his liking than a custom quad with a bullet list of argiments that detail how the points that are important to him aren't those that matter to you and all you do is laugh at him, so maybe you can just let it go and accept your arguments aren't necessarily valid for everyone?
 
To use the DJI simulator you will need a set of FPV goggles and a FPV controller. You may be able to just use the iPad display and fingers instead the control sticks on the controller. But, this is totally useless.
Yeah, I guess I'll just have to wait until I actually get the system.
This is after I installed the antennas. The problem can be seen at the very end. Before the antennas were installed the pixelation started happening as the FPV turned and started down the rows.

So the pixilation is the waviness in the resolution? I'd definitely want to improve that if possible, but it's not a show-stopper as-is.

Thx!

TCS
 
You really is a funny guy ... due to some unknown reason you ridicule every single way I try to assist you & share my personal experience by merely inform you of possible alternatives that you perhaps not have thought of that might or might not suit your immediate & future needs.
Perhaps I misunderstood. I do appreciate you providing this interesting information, which I said explicitly after watching the initial video you suggested.

What I was ridiculing was your tone, which suggested to me that the values you were describing were "better" than the more "tame" values that I have in this realm. The way it came across to me was that *you* were ridiculing *my* values, and dismissing my predictions of the low damage rate that they would produce when I start my FPV flying.

If I misunderstood your tone, I apologize for that.

The simple truth buddy, is that you don't know me well enough to judge my "wisdom" nor what I "care" about ... but it's pretty clear that your kind of wisdom that apparently comes from advanced age is closely connected with arrogance & disrespect.
I know you only from what you say, and I can make judgements based on that, regardless of how wide the error margins on those judgements may be.

In a lot of ways, I'm a mirror in the way I react to people. I always lead with politeness and respect, and if that's what I get back, that's the way the conversation stays.

My impression was that *you* were being arrogant and disrespectful of *my* comparatively tame values, and in the normal course of human events, that's what you got back from me.

It's reversible, though. I recalibrate with each new interaction. If you revert to politeness and respect, then I'll mirror that, and do the same.

You go with your religion, utility function, patience, or whatever you want to call it... why would I mind?
I can't imagine, and I would invite you to do the same!

:)

Thx,

TCS
 
The in the cockpit feeling is very possible. With my Mavic Pro and Goggles RE I can put the goggles in gimbal head tracking mode and the gimbal moves anywhere the person wearing the goggles looks while I fly the drone.

Mike
I believe that could work, but I'm committed to getting a fully-integrated-out-of-the-box system.

Thx,

TCS
 
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You're the one who constantly tries to ridicule people considering the DJI FPV as seen above and completely ignoring their points. He's told you exactly why one was more to his liking than a custom quad with a bullet list of argiments that detail how the points that are important to him aren't those that matter to you and all you do is laugh at him, so maybe you can just let it go and accept your arguments aren't necessarily valid for everyone?
Ahhh...slup as a reliable DJI FPV Anti-evangelist.

That would explain a lot.

Thx!

TCS
 
Is it possible to download the manual for the DJI FPV system before I actually get the drone?

That would help me pass the time during the cold and windy week that starts here tomorrow...

;-)

Thx!

TCS
 
Is it possible to download the manual for the DJI FPV system before I actually get the drone?

That would help me pass the time during the cold and windy week that starts here tomorrow...

;-)

Thx!

TCS
Are you dead set on a racing style drone? I ask because I still stand by the Mavic Pro and 2 sets of Goggles RE for an out of the box solution to what you asked for in the original post. You can’t really get much more “in the cockpit” feeling than what they offer from what I have seen.

Mike
 
Here's the price quote that I got from DFI for the full system that I need:

FPV Combo - $1,299
Motion Controller - $ 199
FPV Fly More Kit - $ 299
Second pair of googles - $ 569

The total is $2,366.

A tough nut for me, sadly. I've seen just the Combo on sale for $999, which is seriously tempting. After all, I'll need to learn the system myself before I can teach anybody else, and I expect that will take a while. I'll need this full list for the business, but the Combo alone would be fully sufficient for my own training.

My only concern about those heavily discounted Combo offerings is...what's the catch? Are they open box, or refurbs? Do they have any hardware components that aren't the most current versions?

I'm toying with the idea of setting up a 501.c.3 organization in parallel to the Savage Drones profit-making plan. Maybe I'll call it the Savage Drones Educational Foundation. Exposing people, particularly kids, to the joys of droning is something that I very much want to do, regardless of whether or not I ever make any money.

I've set up a successful 501.c.3 organization before, and I've served on the boards of several. It takes a lot of time and paperwork, but it's not conceptually difficult.

Thx,

TCS
 
Are you dead set on a racing style drone? I ask because I still stand by the Mavic Pro and 2 sets of Goggles RE for an out of the box solution to what you asked for in the original post. You can’t really get much more “in the cockpit” feeling than what they offer from what I have seen.

Mike
"Dead set" is too strong. "Heavily inclined toward" is closer.

The speed of the FPV is very appealing to me. I'm not going to be dodging and banging around into stuff at low altitude, but I have this vision of flying up and down my canyon at Warp 9, at 300 ft AGL. Once I get good with it, maybe I'll drop that down to 200 ft AGL. Maybe even 150...

So, I think the DJI FPV is the way for me to go.

Thx!

TCS
 
Here's the price quote that I got from DFI for the full system that I need:

FPV Combo - $1,299
Motion Controller - $ 199
FPV Fly More Kit - $ 299
Second pair of googles - $ 569

The total is $2,366.

A tough nut for me, sadly. I've seen just the Combo on sale for $999, which is seriously tempting. After all, I'll need to learn the system myself before I can teach anybody else, and I expect that will take a while. I'll need this full list for the business, but the Combo alone would be fully sufficient for my own training.

My only concern about those heavily discounted Combo offerings is...what's the catch? Are they open box, or refurbs? Do they have any hardware components that aren't the most current versions?

I'm toying with the idea of setting up a 501.c.3 organization in parallel to the Savage Drones profit-making plan. Maybe I'll call it the Savage Drones Educational Foundation. Exposing people, particularly kids, to the joys of droning is something that I very much want to do, regardless of whether or not I ever make any money.

I've set up a successful 501.c.3 organization before, and I've served on the boards of several. It takes a lot of time and paperwork, but it's not conceptually difficult.

Thx,

TCS
The FPV combo is $999 at Best Buy right now.


It is the same thing you would get ordering direct.

Mike
 
"Dead set" is too strong. "Heavily inclined toward" is closer.

The speed of the FPV is very appealing to me. I'm not going to be dodging and banging around into stuff at low altitude, but I have this vision of flying up and down my canyon at Warp 9, at 300 ft AGL. Once I get good with it, maybe I'll drop that down to 200 ft AGL. Maybe even 150...

So, I think the DJI FPV is the way for me to go.

Thx!

TCS
I get it. Lol. 40mph is plenty fast enough for me right now. About 30 or 40 feet above the trees flying up out of the ravine in front of my place at 40 is quite thrilling. I honestly haven’t even dared do that with the Goggles, only the phone screen so far.

Mike
 
Yeah, I guess I'll just have to wait until I actually get the system.


So the pixilation is the waviness in the resolution? I'd definitely want to improve that if possible, but it's not a show-stopper as-is.

Thx!

TCS
Not sure I would call it waviness. Here is a snapshot of a pixelated frame.
vlcsnap-2022-02-20-07h14m58s369.jpg
 
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