Thanks EU

[Red Pyro]

Thanks EU.

The bureaucracy nightmare that is the EU has written a law that goes against drone users. We're talking here so called "exams" and online registration to follow.

Honestly it feels more and more that drone users are treated on the same basis as gun owners. I really wonder how long until you need to give a criminal record to be able to buy a drone.
We are witnessing it now again with Covid, governments are hungry for more power. And the rules on drones feel more and more dystopian.

Unfortunately, although I'm living in Switzerland we're always integrating EU laws because of our countless treaties with them, and this new law is going to plague Swiss drone users next year.

Maybe this just sounds like a silly rant, but i'd like to have your take on it:

EU drone regulation in Switzerland

www.bazl.admin.ch

 

[SkyeHigh]

Thanks EU.

The bureaucracy nightmare that is the EU has written a law that goes against drone users. We're talking here so called "exams" and online registration to follow.

Honestly it feels more and more that drone users are treated on the same basis as gun owners. I really wonder how long until you need to give a criminal record to be able to buy a drone.
We are witnessing it now again with Covid, governments are hungry for more power. And the rules on drones feel more and more dystopian.

Unfortunately, although I'm living in Switzerland we're always integrating EU laws because of our countless treaties with them, and this new law is going to plague Swiss drone users next year.

Maybe this just sounds like a silly rant, but i'd like to have your take on it:

EU drone regulation in Switzerland

www.bazl.admin.ch

Doesn’t look a great deal different to the UK, which already has the online test in place.

 

[BadWolf1]

Maybe this just sounds like a silly rant, but i'd like to have your take on it:

It does.

It is not from the EU bureaucracy, but agreement among European civil aviation regulators (that includes some non EU ones, and I'm not sure it includes all the ones in the EU).
It will mean that the same rules apply in a multiple countries, and approval from one country is valid in another.
If you fly anything heavier than a mavic mini today, most countries require you to register, some require a pilot test, others don't. The rules which were planned for the middle of this year but delayed because of covid mean in the UK we can fly in more areas, we have to register a mini now (because it has a camera on it). There's no exam for a the mini and but the same one applies to heavier drones.

Unless you fly a mini and have a massive objection to registering, you're probably better off with the new rules than the current ones.

 

[jagraphics]

The bureaucracy nightmare that is the EU has written a law that goes against drone users. We're talking here so called "exams" and online registration to follow.
Honestly it feels more and more that drone users are treated on the same basis as gun owners.

No you are being treated the same as anyone else who fly's or drives something in Europe.:License and a test.
BTW I didn't have to take any exams to own firearms just get a license.

 

[John_Howard3105]

Personally i think its right to have a license to fly a drone, they are aircraft at the end of the day.

 

[ETJR]

It saddens me to see the comments of those so willing to give up their freedom without a fight. There are too many sheep in this world.

 

[JoeBoy]

It saddens me to see people confuse 'freedom' with 'selfishness'. We live in a society and we as a society agree together what is acceptable, legal behaviour that we can all benefit from. Yet there still exist those who for their own selfish reasons want to do what they want to do and **** the rest of them. Imagine if we all had that attitude?

 

[cloud#7]

Thanks EU.

The bureaucracy nightmare that is the EU has written a law that goes against drone users. We're talking here so called "exams" and online registration to follow.

Honestly it feels more and more that drone users are treated on the same basis as gun owners. I really wonder how long until you need to give a criminal record to be able to buy a drone.
We are witnessing it now again with Covid, governments are hungry for more power. And the rules on drones feel more and more dystopian.

Unfortunately, although I'm living in Switzerland we're always integrating EU laws because of our countless treaties with them, and this new law is going to plague Swiss drone users next year.

Maybe this just sounds like a silly rant, but i'd like to have your take on it:

EU drone regulation in Switzerland

www.bazl.admin.ch

Don't you realize that you now are able to fly your drone all over europe without difference in regulation; See Belgium: untill this EU regulation it 's almost impossible to fly your drone (even DJI MM) legally. Try to look over your mounains....

 

[cloud#7]

Don't you realize that you now are able to fly your drone all over europe without difference in regulation; See Belgium: untill this EU regulation it 's almost impossible to fly your drone (even DJI MM) legally. Try to look over your mounains....

 

[zocalo]

For me it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

There are currently 27 countries in the EU that should have adopted the law (although some have yet to do so, despite the deadline having lapsed), plus, while the UK might be out, the CAA has taken onboard the new legislation anyway, and I expect the Swiss will not be the only European but non-EU country that will adopt this. Personally, I see this kind of harmonization of basic legislation and restrictions as a very good thing for those of us that travel with our drones; it's exactly the kind of law the EU member states *should* be implementing. The tests and registration are generally fairly simple to pass, and FWIW I think they're a good thing too - it's kind of hard for someone to put forward the argument that drone pilots have no training, etc. when they are required by law to have it (e.g. the primary foundation for the National Trust's blanket ban on drones is now moot).

Yes, it's additional legisation and we are required to hand over some personal details and pay a fee etc., but is anyone *really* surprised this has happened given the behaviour of some pilots, even if it is a minority? I see extremely sketchy footage posted here all the time - far too often for it all to be obtained with the necessary permits and waivers - yet many of us tacitly approve it with likes and positive comments without a thought. YouTube et al are obviously a lot worse. Then there's all the bad press of people demonstrably flying over stadiums and other places where an NFZ is in effect, posting footage of near misses (remember the Blue Angels footage from earlier this year?), and so on; even discounting all the unproven near misses reported by pilots, we're currently getting off pretty lightly IMHO. I'd say we're now on a par with casually licensed activities like fishing/hunting, which isn't that unreasonable when you consider how much damage a wayward, or maliciously flown, drone could do. If people continue to be idiots though (which, sadly, they probably will), then I suspect that we're going to have the kinds of formal paperwork and testing requirements that are more typically associated with driving vehicles, firearm ownership, or even operation of light aircraft - which given we share the same Class-G airspace isn't that much of stretch.

Frankly, given the potential alternatives, I'll take the really quite limited amount of red tape in return for what is essentially an almost continent-wide harmonisation of flight regulations anyday.

 

[MaxE1955!]

It saddens me to see people confuse 'freedom' with 'selfishness'. We live in a society and we as a society agree together what is acceptable, legal behaviour that we can all benefit from. Yet there still exist those who for their own selfish reasons want to do what they want to do and **** the rest of them. Imagine if we all had that attitude?

And I’m just guessing here, but I assume “the people” voted on implementing these regulations!?!?! If not, then what power do free citizens really have??? When elected or worse, appointed flunkies determines what’s best for the rest of us without letting the taxpayer have a voice.

 

[zocalo]

And I’m just guessing here, but I assume “the people” voted on implementing these regulations!?!?! If not, then what power do free citizens really have??? When elected or worse, appointed flunkies determines what’s best for the rest of us without letting the taxpayer have a voice.

Because that happens in absolutely no state, anywhere. Although, from what I understand of Swiss politics, they're perhaps one of the few countries in the world where citizens actually *do* get a chance to directly vote on legislation more often than most as a lot more stuff goes to a binding national referendum than is typically the case. I doubt that would be the case here though as it's not something that is going to have any relevance to most of the general population, but maybe the OP could clarify how it got onto the Swiss statute books?

In general though, legislation in the EU works pretty much as it does in most democracies; the public votes for people they hope will act in their best interests, and some combination of the dominant party/coalition and those elected representatives is responsible for consulting with experts, then defining and enacting the laws according to their best judgement. Contrary to many people's perceptions, the EU does NOT actually pass laws, instead they draft the requirements for legislation that are then left to the indivual member states to put into law, although they are obliged to do so. Or, to put it another way since since your location says "Indiana", they are not essentially passing Federal laws that override laws passed at State level. It's not at all uncommon to see quite significant differences between how laws are interpreted from one member state to another, e.g. the wide variation in VAT rates.

 

[BadWolf1]

And I’m just guessing here, but I assume “the people” voted on implementing these regulations!?!?! If not, then what power do free citizens really have??? When elected or worse, appointed flunkies determines what’s best for the rest of us without letting the taxpayer have a voice.

Like the people vote about how car drivers are licensed, or aircraft operators are governed, or shipping is regulated ?
Most people think they pay the government and it's bureaucracy to sort these things out for them so they don't have to bother.

If people voted for drone rules some countries would ban them, others would have a complete free-for-all. People select the stupidest thing on the ballot sometimes.

 

[DoctorNick]

Doesn’t look a great deal different to the UK, which already has the online test in place.

Denmark already has this too.

 

[Skyfall-0D2]

Good to see mature comments between ?? & our ?? friends.
As far as those who say there should be “no laws” & “allowing the state to control what you do!”. As a former RAF Investigating Officer;

‘it’s as a result of the few with these attitudes, that shape the laws necessary to protect others’.

And in this case, it’s VERY important, whether the 13yr old hobbiest or 36yr old professional, behaves in a manner that is positive to the public & shows us all in a positive light with at least basic rules. It’s an absolute tragedy we need laws to say don’t fly close to airports or don’t film children, but there you are. So I guess, if we don’t want an ID check & a criminal record check in the future, we need to look out for each other, us this forum to look out for each other. Otherwise, how do we continue to learn?

 

[BadWolf1]

My guiding principle is governments are untrustworthy, and to share as little with them as possible. But I'm relatively unbothered by telling them a drone serial number belongs to me.

Anyone complaining about registering their drone with their government might like to mull over what information they have shared (and continue to share) with DJI who are legally bound to share any or or all of it with the Chinese government.

Your phone knows where you live, where you visit regularly (work etc). IOS sandboxes apps more strictly than Android, but most people don't know what non-flying info DJI might be gathering (and what other things would be empty scare stories). Does a mapping provider know it was asked by the DJI app, running under your ID for map data about a place at a given time? because that's another party who know where you've flown and when.

As for flying rules and tests, some drone owners are ignorant, and a test might fix that, others behave ignorantly, and if they are shown knowingly put themselves above the rules, I think a court can legitimately ban them from owning or flying any kind of aircraft.

 

[Skyfall-0D2]

My guiding principle is governments are untrustworthy, and to share as little with them as possible. But I'm relatively unbothered by telling them a drone serial number belongs to me.

Anyone complaining about registering their drone with their government might like to mull over what information they have shared (and continue to share) with DJI who are legally bound to share any or or all of it with the Chinese government.

Your phone knows where you live, where you visit regularly (work etc). IOS sandboxes apps more strictly than Android, but most people don't know what non-flying info DJI might be gathering (and what other things would be empty scare stories). Does a mapping provider know it was asked by the DJI app, running under your ID for map data about a place at a given time? because that's another party who know where you've flown and when.

I think this is going off topic a little, but keeping on-point:- by the time it hits the courts & the news, it’s too late. Kate & Bob next door are shaking their heads saying “there really needs to be a law to outlaw those things.”.

 

[Red Pyro]

No you are being treated the same as anyone else who fly's or drives something in Europe.:License and a test.
BTW I didn't have to take any exams to own firearms just get a license.

Yes. In that case soon it's going to be easier to buy guns than drones

 

[Red Pyro]

For me it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

There are currently 27 countries in the EU that should have adopted the law (although some have yet to do so, despite the deadline having lapsed), plus, while the UK might be out, the CAA has taken onboard the new legislation anyway, and I expect the Swiss will not be the only European but non-EU country that will adopt this. Personally, I see this kind of harmonization of basic legislation and restrictions as a very good thing for those of us that travel with our drones; it's exactly the kind of law the EU member states *should* be implementing. The tests and registration are generally fairly simple to pass, and FWIW I think they're a good thing too - it's kind of hard for someone to put forward the argument that drone pilots have no training, etc. when they are required by law to have it (e.g. the primary foundation for the National Trust's blanket ban on drones is now moot).

Yes, it's additional legisation and we are required to hand over some personal details and pay a fee etc., but is anyone *really* surprised this has happened given the behaviour of some pilots, even if it is a minority? I see extremely sketchy footage posted here all the time - far too often for it all to be obtained with the necessary permits and waivers - yet many of us tacitly approve it with likes and positive comments without a thought. YouTube et al are obviously a lot worse. Then there's all the bad press of people demonstrably flying over stadiums and other places where an NFZ is in effect, posting footage of near misses (remember the Blue Angels footage from earlier this year?), and so on; even discounting all the unproven near misses reported by pilots, we're currently getting off pretty lightly IMHO. I'd say we're now on a par with casually licensed activities like fishing/hunting, which isn't that unreasonable when you consider how much damage a wayward, or maliciously flown, drone could do. If people continue to be idiots though (which, sadly, they probably will), then I suspect that we're going to have the kinds of formal paperwork and testing requirements that are more typically associated with driving vehicles, firearm ownership, or even operation of light aircraft - which given we share the same Class-G airspace isn't that much of stretch.

Frankly, given the potential alternatives, I'll take the really quite limited amount of red tape in return for what is essentially an almost continent-wide harmonisation of flight regulations anyday.

Fair point

 

[Red Pyro]

Don't you realize that you now are able to fly your drone all over europe without difference in regulation; See Belgium: untill this EU regulation it 's almost impossible to fly your drone (even DJI MM) legally. Try to look over your mounains....

I don't really see the benefit to that, at the end of the day countries still decide themselves what zones you can fly in or not. Sure, maybe regarding the registration

Because that happens in absolutely no state, anywhere. Although, from what I understand of Swiss politics, they're perhaps one of the few countries in the world where citizens actually *do* get a chance to directly vote on legislation more often than most as a lot more stuff goes to a binding national referendum than is typically the case. I doubt that would be the case here though as it's not something that is going to have any relevance to most of the general population, but maybe the OP could clarify how it got onto the Swiss statute books?

In general though, legislation in the EU works pretty much as it does in most democracies; the public votes for people they hope will act in their best interests, and some combination of the dominant party/coalition and those elected representatives is responsible for consulting with experts, then defining and enacting the laws according to their best judgement. Contrary to many people's perceptions, the EU does NOT actually pass laws, instead they draft the requirements for legislation that are then left to the indivual member states to put into law, although they are obliged to do so. Or, to put it another way since since your location says "Indiana", they are not essentially passing Federal laws that override laws passed at State level. It's not at all uncommon to see quite significant differences between how laws are interpreted from one member state to another, e.g. the wide variation in VAT rates.

I doubt there is a way to go against it but even if we could, EU agreements are such that they always bind to countless other rules. Not too long ago there was a referendum regarding the new EU law around automatic weapons and although the population could have said no, it would have broken countless other important treaties, so we just had to go with it... It sucks but it's just how it works with the "democratic" EU