Think carefully before purchasing if you’re in the EU and UK

[deltamike]

You’ll need to read the regulations.

So presumably Mavics are in the same class as toys?

Full CAA quote :-

20kg or less - Small Unmanned Aircraft - this class covers all types including traditional remotely controlled model aeroplanes, helicopters or gliders, as well as the increasingly popular multi-rotor ‘drones’ and remotely controlled ‘toy’ aircraft. They normally have a reduced level of regulation imposed on them which is aimed at being proportionate to the risk and complexity or their types of operation.

Wanted to order one of these off Amazon but cancelled it. The paperwork is horrendous.

 

[thewishy]

Wanted to order one of these off Amazon but cancelled it. The paperwork is horrendous.

There is some regulation to work through, although in practice hobby flyers don't have too much to worry about other than needing to know some fairly straight forward requirements around where you fly, and registration. At the end of the day there is good reason for the legislation, and if you're not of a mindset where you are happy to read through the regulations then this is perhaps not the hobby for you, in much the same way as you wouldn't expect to drive without some understanding of the highway code.

 

[Lastrexking]

So presumably Mavics are in the same class as toys?

Full CAA quote :-

20kg or less - Small Unmanned Aircraft - this class covers all types including traditional remotely controlled model aeroplanes, helicopters or gliders, as well as the increasingly popular multi-rotor ‘drones’ and remotely controlled ‘toy’ aircraft. They normally have a reduced level of regulation imposed on them which is aimed at being proportionate to the risk and complexity or their types of operation.

Wanted to order one of these off Amazon but cancelled it. The paperwork is horrendous.


View attachment 99926

UK Drone Laws 2023: Where can I fly?

UK drone laws explained. In-depth guide to where you can fly, A2 CofC and GVC drone training, FPV drone laws, UK drone registration, when you need an Operating Safety Case (OSC), drone privacy and best drone apps. Learn more at heliguy™

www.heliguy.com

 

[Gkinghrn]

This 1 pager from Heliguy is a good summary I think ...easy to digest

 

[Matt8900]

I thought current regulations meant you shouldn't fly within 50m of people anyway?
So surely the only change for any hobbyist using their drone would be the increase to 150m for buildings?
Unless I'm missing somthing?

But come on let's be real here. No one is going to pull you up if you fly within those 150m of a building.
Most law officials probably won't even know the regulations!!
The only issue arises if either someone complains or you have a crash, but both of these scenarios are miniscule.
Just like now, I can guarantee 95% of people using drones have flown within 50m of people, and I can also guarantee not a single person has ever been in trouble over it.

 

[Gkinghrn]

Just because nobody has been in trouble doesn’t make it right. Assume you have drone insurance and fly illegally and cause an accident as your drone falls from the sky and hits a car that then crashes ... your drone insurance won’t pay out so you are on your own.

I hear you but we still ALL need to fly legally ..

 

[Matt8900]

Just because nobody has been in trouble doesn’t make it right. Assume you have drone insurance and fly illegally and cause an accident as your drone falls from the sky and hits a car that then crashes ... your drone insurance won’t pay out so you are on your own.

I hear you but we still ALL need to fly legally ..

No you are right and I am not saying its right just because nobody has been in trouble.

The point I'm making is that this really does not affect hobbyist in the slightest.

Let's say I go out and fly my drone 70m away from a building. How can anyone ever prove I was 70m away and not 150m away.

People are being a bit OTT thinking that every police man is going to be stood there with a ruler making sure you don't fly within 150m of a building.

How many of us here have flown out of VLOS. This isn't allowed. But we still do it? It's the same principle.

 

[Benmavicpilot]

I was hoping for a C1 classification, seems that the Mavic Air 2 should comply but if its not certified when you buy one then i don't think retrospectively it can be called a C1. Shame as this would have meant very little restriction in how we could fly. Even the speed is 19m/s which fits.. not sure of the impact joule rating but the rest of the spec seems to be what the Air 2 is designed for.

Even Heliguy in UK say that its been designed to meet the new classification, so do DJI. Just no one is saying if it is the C1 or C2 and also if this can be applied retrospectively.

This is what a C1 needs to comply with:

Either less than 900g maximum take-off mass or are made and perform in a way that if they collide with a human head, the energy transmitted will be less than 80 Joules.

Have a maximum speed of 19m/s (approx 42.5mph);
Designed and constructed so as to minimise injury to people.

The standards also cover other aspects such as noise limits, height limits, and requirements for remote identification and geo-awareness systems.

If this drone has the new classification i would buy immediately, just have a suspicion that despite meeting the requirements it isn't yet certified. In which case likely over the coming months it will become certified at which point we will be able to fly it in a very unrestricted fashion compared to 'legacy' drones which if i buy it today it may be?

Update:

I may be off down a rabbit hole on this... looks to me like the Mavic Air 2 also meets the <80j impact speed. So i reckons this be a C1 drone just lacking the formal certification.

Below graph is from a CAA Australian document describing impact speed from 'small unmanned aircraft' .. dated 2013.

CAA AU Impact study

 

[jagraphics]

No you are right and I am not saying its right just because nobody has been in trouble.

The point I'm making is that this really does not affect hobbyist in the slightest.

Let's say I go out and fly my drone 70m away from a building. How can anyone ever prove I was 70m away and not 150m away.

People are being a bit OTT thinking that every police man is going to be stood there with a ruler making sure you don't fly within 150m of a building.

How many of us here have flown out of VLOS. This isn't allowed. But we still do it? It's the same principle.

Basically as long as you are sensible and no one complains you will "get away with it" like now. The reason we have all these rules is there are a lot of idiots with drones and people who push the boundaries in silly ways. Then argued about it.

I suspect a lot of legacy drones will continue after 2022 but the number will decline through natural wastage, IE crashes, mechanical failures etc and a few though people being silly and getting stopped. the rest will depend on how long the batteries last (and are available) and owners upgrading to new drones.

We shoot video and the drone is just a one of our cameras that does not need a tripod. We normally shoot 1080p. Some of our cameras are 6 years old. We expect to use them for another 5+ years. The same with the drone. As long as we don't do anything silly and stick to the rules I can't see a problem. IF we do need to shoot that close to uninvolved peopel and things then we wil need to get a suitable drone.

 

[deltamike]

Just because nobody has been in trouble doesn’t make it right. Assume you have drone insurance and fly illegally and cause an accident as your drone falls from the sky and hits a car that then crashes ... your drone insurance won’t pay out so you are on your own.

I hear you but we still ALL need to fly legally ..

I have my CAA operator ID, BMFA insurance and I stick to the CAA rulings wherever possible but as Matt infers, a little leeway either side is not going to matter.

Knowing the code and using common sense when flying should be enough to keep you and others safe.

 

[Lastrexking]

I thought current regulations meant you shouldn't fly within 50m of people anyway?
So surely the only change for any hobbyist using their drone would be the increase to 150m for buildings?
Unless I'm missing somthing?

But come on let's be real here. No one is going to pull you up if you fly within those 150m of a building.
Most law officials probably won't even know the regulations!!
The only issue arises if either someone complains or you have a crash, but both of these scenarios are miniscule.
Just like now, I can guarantee 95% of people using drones have flown within 50m of people, and I can also guarantee not a single person has ever been in trouble over it.

This thread wasn't aimed at hobbyists really. I said as much in my original post. So, for those of us that do this for a living, we need to provide the appropriate paperwork to clients, including qualifications, and insurance, and that the craft we use is allowed to fly within the distances we're using them.

 

[Lastrexking]

I was hoping for a C1 classification, seems that the Mavic Air 2 should comply but if its not certified when you buy one then i don't think retrospectively it can be called a C1. Shame as this would have meant very little restriction in how we could fly. Even the speed is 19m/s which fits.. not sure of the impact joule rating but the rest of the spec seems to be what the Air 2 is designed for.

Even Heliguy in UK say that its been designed to meet the new classification, so do DJI. Just no one is saying if it is the C1 or C2 and also if this can be applied retrospectively.

This is what a C1 needs to comply with:

Either less than 900g maximum take-off mass or are made and perform in a way that if they collide with a human head, the energy transmitted will be less than 80 Joules.

Have a maximum speed of 19m/s (approx 42.5mph);
Designed and constructed so as to minimise injury to people.

The standards also cover other aspects such as noise limits, height limits, and requirements for remote identification and geo-awareness systems.

If this drone has the new classification i would buy immediately, just have a suspicion that despite meeting the requirements it isn't yet certified. In which case likely over the coming months it will become certified at which point we will be able to fly it in a very unrestricted fashion compared to 'legacy' drones which if i buy it today it may be?

Update:

I may be off down a rabbit hole on this... looks to me like the Mavic Air 2 also meets the <80j impact speed. So i reckons this be a C1 drone just lacking the formal certification.

Below graph is from a CAA Australian document describing impact speed from 'small unmanned aircraft' .. dated 2013.

CAA AU Impact study

View attachment 99966

I've had confirmation from my training provider (also a DJI supplier) that this doesn't meet the new standards.

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[Benmavicpilot]

I've had confirmation from my training provider (also a DJI supplier) that this doesn't meet the new standards.

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Good information - not nice information but useful and thanks for confirming.

 

[Skyfli]

WTF is uninvolved people .. they just making up $hit. They couldn't make it more complicated if they tried.
I just want fly my drone around the forest and do some video.
Why does everything have to be so god dam complicated all the time.
Let me guess this will cost me more money.

I think by 2022 the UK will be a lawless dystopia anyway, so authority like the CAA, The government, the Police etc will loose their grip with Militia Men and gangs running the show.
We’re on the edge of oblivion of society as we know guys.

The local authority will have enough to deal with civil unrest - the breakdown of democracy so the last thing on their minds will be a BS ambiguous law created by muppets who can’t relate to normal people on the flying of plastic model aircraft .

 

[jagraphics]

I think by 2022 the UK will be a lawless dystopia anyway, so authority like the CAA, The government, the Police etc will loose their grip with Militia Men and gangs running the show.
We’re on the edge of oblivion of society as we know guys.

The local authority will have enough to deal with civil unrest - the breakdown of democracy so the last thing on their minds will be a BS ambiguous law created by muppets who can’t relate to normal people on the flying of plastic model aircraft .

That sounds like a great scenario for a film (with lots of aerial footage obviously.) though I have a feeling it will be going out at 22:00 on BBC1
:-(

 

[adam3112]

I’m from the UK and was thinking about upgrading to this from a MP1. Shall I wait and see how it pans out with the upcoming CAA regs or not bother at all?

 

[Benmavicpilot]

I’m from the UK and was thinking about upgrading to this from a MP1. Shall I wait and see how it pans out with the upcoming CAA regs or not bother at all?

Personally I am holding back for 2 reasons.

First, later this year DJI will start selling the Air 2 with the ADSB module in the UK - seems unfair to sell us in Blighty a reduced spec model for similar money as in the Americas.

Second, this seems to be practically a C1 drone if DJI can iron out the remote ID bit... then stamp C1 on it. This means that we would be legally able to fly the drone on the beach, in built up areas, around people etc. As things stand, come 2022 (time goes quickly and I still intend to be using a drone thats costs a grand in a year and a half) then this drone will be banished to 'No uninvolved people in area of flight' and '150m away from man / beast / building /recreational area' as will be legacy.

Gutted as I woke up at 06:30 day after release and added the pre-order to my Heliguy.com basket.. then ummmmed and aaaarrred all morning before coming to the conclusion it doesn't make sense to order straight off the bat due to above. Normally I have no restraint.. must be getting older and wiser?

 

[Lastrexking]

Second, this seems to be practically a C1 drone if DJI can iron out the remote ID bit... then stamp C1 on it. This means that we would be legally able to fly the drone on the beach, in built up areas, around people etc.

Only if you have a minimum of A2 cofc qualification. For people flying under the DMARES (basic drone test and registration) the drone code will still apply post 2022 as will the flight restrictions on proximity to buildings and uninvolved people.

 

[Benmavicpilot]

Only if you have a minimum of A2 cofc qualification. For people flying under the DMARES (basic drone test and registration) the drone code will still apply post 2022 as will the flight restrictions on proximity to buildings and uninvolved people.

Gotcha - so the main difference in usage (amateur) dependant on classification would be:

a) Legacy 150m from people
Or
b) C1A1 50m from people

Sounds about right?

 

[Lastrexking]

Gotcha - so the main difference in usage (amateur) dependant on classification would be:

a) Legacy 150m from people
Or
b) C1A1 50m from people

Sounds about right?

The CAP is very confusing. It states that C1 aircraft are;

'less than 900g maximum take-off mass, or;
▪ are made and perform in a way that if they collide with a human head, the energy
transmitted will be less than 80 Joules
▪ have a maximum speed of 19m/s (approx. 42.5 mph)
▪ designed and constructed so as to minimise injury to people'

But, then in the categories it states A1 can only be conducted with unmanned aircraft that present a very low risk of harm or injury to other people due to their low weight (less than 250g), their type of construction, or because they are a ‘toy2’ (i.e. they are ‘inherently harmless’). However, flight over open-air assemblies of people is not permitted.

So, I’m baffled.
The CAP is here if anyone else fancies figuring it out

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1789%20April%202020.pdf