Please provide evidence of someone getting hurt doing a basic hand landing.
What do you use as a landing pad?
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Droning on and on...
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Hi Fat Bastard. First, as I've said several times already, I've hand caught our P4P+ when necessary. And I also know - having established and managed a medical clinic for 25 years - that, in general, so-called freak accidents are much more common that the layman realises. (This has been supported by a couple of distressing stories above with major implications that last decades.) We're outstandingly successful in all that we do simply because we think a lot about all of the psychology factors - which includes eliminating or reducing all kinds of "What if...?" risk. Those who plan are overall much "luckier" than those who don't.
Also, before directly answering your question, I would strongly dispute your statement that "hand-catching is much better in pretty much every circumstance". That's simply wrong. It might - or might not - be as good as using a landing mat or pad, but it's rarely a "better" or "much better" option (of which a few circumstances do exist, such as operating from a boat).
Okay, assuming that I've cleared those two relevant minor points up, why do we - as working pros - use a landing mat or pad? It's simply because we're working and doing so in a remote location, whether near to or far away from a vehicle. Operating from a 1.5m x 1m or 5ft x 3ft bit of old tarpaulin - which we use when flying the P4P+ - is extremely practical. We can lay down our backpack, unpack the drone, props, and controller, set everything up, without any danger of getting sand, dirt, or other debris on or in the equipment. Or anything getting wet or muddy. And, when landing, the drone is on the tarp or mat/pad, leaving us "free" to do whatever we need to immediately do next - or think/talk/discuss. There's always a lot going on, not least because of needing to make use of the very best light or other circumstance. I'm not communicating or explaining this well. But getting the drone off the ground and down again is just one of many things that we're doing all at the same time - bearing in mind that the drone for us is merely a filming tool. Getting really good usable footage is easier said than done. A lot of work is involved. It's usually intense. I suppose not having to use a hand means that we can actually do more - but, again, I'm feebly struggling to find suitable or relevant words to string together. But I hope you more or less get the point. And as we always strip down unnecessary equipment, we obviously consider either the tarp or the Moment foldable pad "necessary" by our criteria.
Alpha2Zulu
Active Member
Wind gusts for one. You can't really control everything.
Droning on and on...
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Cool, the old "moving the goalposts" fallacy.
I said "...sometimes humans make mistakes..."
You said "... provide evidence of someone getting hurt..."
I did.
Moving the goalposts - Wikipedia
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Chrislaf
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With my Spark I usually hand launch and land, with my P3S I usually launch from my case (Lowepro Droneguard) and hand catch. I have one of the circular fold-up pads that I also use to spread out some of the equipment or launch from if the ground is wet or there is lots of overgrowth as I often hike to my locations.
Winter is a completely different situation as keeping myself and the flight batteries warm is of primary importance. In cold weather I tend to launch and land much more often from my launch pad in the interest of keeping my hands warm. I do carry hand warmers to warm my hands after they have been out of my mitts. In winter the fold-up nylon pad I talked about above is useless as there is no way to secure it (you can’t stake it into snow) so recently I purchased a landing pad off Amazon.ca by Pgytech which is similar to the Moment one. It is 50cm square so it works well with both my Spark and P3S. It’s sturdy and has some weight so doesn’t blow around. It folds up small, comes with a cloth bag and fits in my small hiking backpack with my DSLR and Spark.
Chris
Winter is a completely different situation as keeping myself and the flight batteries warm is of primary importance. In cold weather I tend to launch and land much more often from my launch pad in the interest of keeping my hands warm. I do carry hand warmers to warm my hands after they have been out of my mitts. In winter the fold-up nylon pad I talked about above is useless as there is no way to secure it (you can’t stake it into snow) so recently I purchased a landing pad off Amazon.ca by Pgytech which is similar to the Moment one. It is 50cm square so it works well with both my Spark and P3S. It’s sturdy and has some weight so doesn’t blow around. It folds up small, comes with a cloth bag and fits in my small hiking backpack with my DSLR and Spark.
Chris
The vast majority of human error can be eliminated, but not all. Humans - at every level of capability - will make mistakes, even if it's occasionally rather than frequently. If you know how to eliminate risk in many areas, you'll happily open yourself to minimal risk on a much higher level because it's part of being the absolute best you can be.Cool, the old "moving the goalposts" fallacy.
I said "...sometimes humans make mistakes..."
You said "... provide evidence of someone getting hurt..."
I did.
Moving the goalposts - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
We've already had a retired ophthalmologist above add his expertise, as eyes are especially vulnerable to injury. I've added mine from a wider medical perspective, based on 25 years clinical experience concerning the frequency of freak injuries. If there's a fireman on this forum, he or she will know just how often a house fire is started by an electrical appliance (switched on or off) plugged into a wall socket. The same fireman will likely be far more cautious in his or her own home, unplugging most devices when going out, knowing the actual reality of risk likelihood. Ignorance changes the perception of reality, to our detriment or even peril. Usually this ignorance or inability to fully face reality shows up as dysfunctional behaviour - which almost all gloss over and normalise, rather than understanding how much of life they miss out on - but sometimes there are physical consequences.
Hi Chris. It's great to know that there's a similar pad available to the Moment one.
I couldn't agree more about cold weather. We're British and just over a year ago we were working in Utah, USA, just as winter hit. One morning, at sunrise, we were flying/filming with the P4P+. The air temperature was -10C (which is 14F), but a severe wind chill on top of that made it an unpleasant situation. I operate the controller bare handed, simply because we need the best results because it's work. I've previously worked in temperatures as low as -40C, but that early morning in Utah was an accident-waiting-to-happen if I had attempted to hand catch. The effects of cold, including hyperthermia, creep up on someone gradually, so you can easily misjudge reduced effectiveness. We're tough, but we were working at the extremes of our tolerance for weeks during that assignment.
I couldn't agree more about cold weather. We're British and just over a year ago we were working in Utah, USA, just as winter hit. One morning, at sunrise, we were flying/filming with the P4P+. The air temperature was -10C (which is 14F), but a severe wind chill on top of that made it an unpleasant situation. I operate the controller bare handed, simply because we need the best results because it's work. I've previously worked in temperatures as low as -40C, but that early morning in Utah was an accident-waiting-to-happen if I had attempted to hand catch. The effects of cold, including hyperthermia, creep up on someone gradually, so you can easily misjudge reduced effectiveness. We're tough, but we were working at the extremes of our tolerance for weeks during that assignment.
Droning on and on...
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I'm not sure why you're quoting me here, I'm the one who suggested that some people don't want spinning blades near their hands and face. I'm one of them.
I occasionally use my drone to make money but if someone offered me a job where I had to launch or land with my hands, I would politely decline.
I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't do it. My original post in this thread was in response to people who suggest that hand catching is the best way and how they can't even conceive that something could go wrong.
Rich QR
Well-Known Member
I provided first-person testimony of my own injury in post #34 of this thread. It has healed up with no permanent damage.
To answer your next question, yes, it was human error. I'm having difficulty recalling any aviation related injury to anyone that didn't involve some level of human error.
Aviation accidents rarely happen due to a single cause. Usually, investigations reveal a chain of events, with multiple missed opportunities to break the chain.
Any accident during hand launch or landing can be avoided by avoiding the practice of hand launch or landing. It can probably be avoided by other means, such as wearing kevlar gloves, holding the fingers in a position that keeps them further separated from the props, avoiding wind gusts, etc.
You can never avoid all risk in aviation, but a good safety mindset is to consider risks carefully, and where risk can be eliminated in a practical way, do so. Hand landing may not always fall into that category, but it very often does.
Chrislaf
Well-Known Member
I have flown my P3S in temps as cold as -25C and below. I know wind chill doesn’t affect the drone but it does me, so if it’s windy out I don’t only have to worry about my hands but also frost bite. A good landing pad is almost a necessity in these conditions. I don’t like flying with gloves on as I feel they restrict my fine control. In these cases I use my transmitter glove which covers my hands and controller. My hands still get cold but at least they are not as exposed to wind. A landing mat is a necessity in these conditions and for me hand catching unless absolutely necessary is out of the question.
Chris
Droning on and on...
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Oh, I thought you were trying to get me to "... happily open [myself] to minimal risk..."I was supporting you.
Cheers!
Rocket 3 GT
Active Member
Or riding in a metal tube thousands of feet in the air at several hundred miles an hour with no propeller!
Tentoes
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Droning on and on...
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Tentoes
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CactusJackSlade
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All this being said about hand catching, I do it 99% of the time... but I have made an error, once, and it hurt like heck. Very slight slice of the finger, but mainly the impact on my cold fingers The incident certainly made me be even more careful.
On the flip side I do like to ground launch most of the time so both my hands are free. Soft dusty dirt or tall grass can be an issue and for those instances I grab the heavy carpet floor mat out of my car if I need it
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