when flying a drone how often to look in the sky?

[mavictk]

Only if the aircraft has ADS-B out. Most, but not all do.

The local sheriff's helicopter is the aircraft that I fear most. They fly it low and you cannot predict where it is coming from or going to. Does anyone know if law enforcement can disable their ADS-B for law enforcement purposes?

 

[Paint Rock Drones]

I don't know about the sheriff's helicopter. But I live near a class D airport, and planes fly over my house regularly. Most of them show up on FlightRadar24 (which I use to track airplanes with ADS-B in more detail than I get from my Air 2S). But some do not. And some of those that do not are pretty big planes, so I assume they are govt./military of some kind and have the ability to turn it off, if they have it at all. Either that, or it fails much more frequently than I would expect.

 

[db4476]

Sorry, but this is not correct. 14 CFR 107.31(a) states:

With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight…​

The regulation does not state that the rPIC/VO/person at controls must be looking directly at the drone for the entire flight, only that they are able to see it should the need arise. It also goes on to say what you must be able to discern by looking directly at the drone, but that’s beyond the scope of this particular discussion.

Exactly!

Cheers

 

[thispilothere]

I almost never look up. It's virtually impossible to get and keep things in frame unless you're looking at the screen. I might look up if I hear a plane or I'm getting into a starting position or about to land but that's it.

 

[Chaosrider]

Sorry, but this is not correct. 14 CFR 107.31(a) states:

With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight…​

The regulation does not state that the rPIC/VO/person at controls must be looking directly at the drone for the entire flight, only that they are able to see it should the need arise. It also goes on to say what you must be able to discern by looking directly at the drone, but that’s beyond the scope of this particular discussion.

Exactly so.

"Be able to see" is not the same thing as "stare at constantly".

The right balance between drone and screen time depends on the flying conditions. I live and fly in a largely uninhabited canyon. I watch the drone for take-off, and to point it in the general direction that I want to go, and then I watch again when I'm coming in for landing. In the interim, I spend the vast majority of my time on the screen, looking up occasionally to see if I can develop some correlation in my brain between what I see on the screen, and what I see in the air.

This is not only entirely legal, I think it's the safest way to fly, if you fly any non-trivial distance away from the launch site..

Thx,

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

In my learnings, the intent of VLOS is the pilot must maintain the ability to avert a collision between the drone and some other object: like a person, another aircraft, etc. This implies you can determine direction, speed, and know how to turn or maneuver the drone to avoid such things, visually (unaided, binocs not allowed).

A gnat against the sky at 2500 feet is not something that you can visually discern for direction and controllability.

Depth perception on a drone is virtually non-existent more than a couple hundred feet away, unless you have objects near the drone laterally that are a known distance away.

IMNSHO, it's neither necessary nor safe to rely on visual depth perception at distances beyond about 200 feet. Less than that, if there are no nearby lateral references. Under such conditions, it's both legal and the safest course to rely on the distance reading on the screen, for judging distance.

Thx,

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I watch my drone most of the time. I glance down at the screen from time to time, which is allowed under the rules. But I don't tend to video much. And when I'm taking photos my drone is usually stationary. On the few occasions when I have not been able to immediately locate my drone after looking down I hit RTH, and then take over control again when I have located it. Of course I fly most of the time in class D airspace, so extra care is required. But watching the screen continuously clearly violates the spirit of the regulation if not the letter; you are essentially flying FPV (which requires a second person to act as an observer).

That said, I've gotten somewhat philosophical about this BVLOS debate. I know people driving cars exceed the speed limit from time to time. If it is on my residential street, it bothers me. If it is on a rural highway, it doesn't. I might even exceed the speed limit from time to time. What's different here is rather than just bending the rules a bit, some folks brag about flaunting them. That sets a bad example for, say, a newcomer learning to fly near a busy airport, or for that matter, near a stadium. In those situations it creates a real risk. And please don't start again with "the mini is so light". As explained in many other threads, what matters is the relative speed of the two aircraft in a collision, and the material (e.g. battery) involved in the impact. See this thread for an example.

In Nevada, if you're on a lightly traveled rural highway, you won't get busted for just driving fast. Highway 50 between towns is like that. While technically there are speed limits, law enforcement resources are not infinite, and they quite sensibly focus their resources on things that actually matter.

But I think you may be pointing at an important distinction here. I turn the video camera on right before I lift off, and leave it on for the duration of the flight. I want to go fly and see stuff, from the perspective of the drone. When additional money accumulates or materializes, I'll get an FPV set-up. I don't even need the fancy DJI FPV drone, although that would be cool. If I could get the signal from my Mini-2s piped into good quality googles, I think that would fully serve my needs for quite a while.

However, if you hardly ever take pics or videos, and you stay close to your launch point, I can see that there wouldn't be a lot of point to looking at the screen most of the time.

Thx,

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

Only if the aircraft has ADS-B out. Most, but not all do.

Probability rules, and possibility drools.

What are the odds? That's the question that matters.

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

Sometimes I feel like I should become an actual aircraft pilot just to fly without looking out the window. I dont think my knees could take paragliding (not saying they fly blind)...

Instrument rated pilots do this all the time.

If you're flying in the clouds on a moonless night, looking out the window is profoundly boring (after the first couple of times), and absolutely useless as an aid to flying the aircraft.

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I look at the screen in the same way I look at my instrument panel when driving — quick glances between scans of the area. I'm also doing mostly still photography so once I have the aircraft in place the picture-taking is mostly automatic.

If I was shooting more video I'd make an effort to get a visual observer to monitor the sky while I was focused on the screen. As it stands I don't need to do that very often.

I look at the screen the same way I look at the instrument panel of an airplane when I'm flying in the clouds on a moonless night...

;-)

TCS

 

[Paint Rock Drones]

I'm not the FAA, so I'm not going to argue the point. But when I'm in the air, I don't trust my life to ATC. I look out the window to make sure I'm not running into other aircraft (day, night, IFR, VFR). I do the same with my drone. I would be interested to hear from a flight instructor whether they would recommend doing a different scan on an instrument night flight than at any other time.

 

[dozzn]

I see many videos where operators are looking a the screen most of the time? Is this the best way to fly? I was trained to watch the drone more often, but maybe it makes more sense to watch the screen and see what the drone sees more?

I think the main thing is not to put yourself in a position were you have to rely on the screen to fly the drone.
I will glance down at the screen from time to time to get a shot lined up just right and to make adjustments, but even then, the drone is within my line of sight.

 

[snowghost]

The local sheriff's helicopter is the aircraft that I fear most. They fly it low and you cannot predict where it is coming from or going to. Does anyone know if law enforcement can disable their ADS-B for law enforcement purposes?

I originally got FlightRadar24 to help me avoid the LAPD helicopters that fly around me. I've found that most times their transponders are off. The other day though one flew by with it on and he was only 100AGL. Glad I wasn't flying.

 

[smashse]

I think this is more for 107 than Rec, as in Rec they expect a VO for FPV, or a pilot or VO in constant sight of a UAS. However for 107 there is an AC for it. Since both are discussed here, I will put in my .02 on 107 which is the majority of my flights. I am NOT saying this applies to rec/TRUST flights.

AC 107-2A that states "The person maintaining VLOS may have brief moments in which he or she is not looking directly at or cannot see the small unmanned aircraft, but still retains the capability to see the small unmanned aircraft or quickly maneuver it back to VLOS."

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_107-2A.pdf

Also, in my 107 training, they were big into scanning the sky, and not just staring at your drone. You should look in 5-10 degree increments in the sky and constantly scan it, for those planes and heli's that come up before you hear them.

As others have said, I fly by looking at my drone, even when in autonomous mode.

So honestly how often am I staring directly at my drone? Almost none. I am watching the sky while keeping my drone in my vision so I can see if something is coming up.

How often do I stare at my screen? I glance, and will look at it for a while once my drone is pretty much stationary and I can regain sight of it without a second passing. Or, if I have a VO, I will watch the video feed a bit closer if they have constant eyes on it.

Even when running dronedeploy, I keep my bird in sight, glance down to check camera, exposure, etc, but never more than 10 seconds or so, then regain direct sight of my drone and start scanning the sky again.

And I am about 6 miles from a class D airport. I have planes fly over me at about 200' all the time (I should probably take down a tail number as they are outside the 5 miles for sure). I've had to stop a mission before because of a plane obviously training someone directly over my property, so I just shut it down till I couldn't hear them anymore and resumed. Annoying, but safe this way.

 

[eEridani]

Depth perception on a drone is virtually non-existent more than a couple hundred feet away, unless you have objects near the drone laterally that are a known distance away.

IMNSHO, it's neither necessary nor safe to rely on visual depth perception at distances beyond about 200 feet. Less than that, if there are no nearby lateral references. Under such conditions, it's both legal and the safest course to rely on the distance reading on the screen, for judging distance.

Thx,

TCS

Who said anything about depth perception? Ability to visually discern what is happening at the drone is what I said. And I challenge anyone to use the display to see what is behind or above or beside or below the drone coming at it on a collision course.

 

[Chaosrider]

Who said anything about depth perception? Ability to visually discern what is happening at the drone is what I said. And I challenge anyone to use the display to see what is behind or above or beside or below the drone coming at it on a collision course.

Well, *I* said something about depth perception!

;-)

Let me phrase this another way. If your drone is 800 feet away, you will see a dark dot, or in my case, a strobe flashing. If you then see another dot 15º to the left of your drone, moving toward your drone...a bird, perhaps...you have no clue about whether or not there's any significant collision risk, because you have no usable depth perception about either dot.

My larger point is that actual VLOS "situational awareness" doesn't make anywhere near as much safety difference as many people seem to believe.

To be fair, if you're flying a lot closer than that, then you can have a good sense of where your drone is, and what might be near and/or a threat to it. If you fly in relatively congested airspace, it might be a reasonable decision to just not fly very far away.

But since I've never flown in congested airspace, I've never had to make a real world judgement about that!

TCS

 

[eEridani]

Well, *I* said something about depth perception!

;-)

Let me phrase this another way. If your drone is 800 feet away, you will see a dark dot, or in my case, a strobe flashing. If you then see another dot 15º to the left of your drone, moving toward your drone...a bird, perhaps...you have no clue about whether or not there's any significant collision risk, because you have no usable depth perception about either dot.

My larger point is that actual VLOS "situational awareness" doesn't make anywhere near as much safety difference as many people seem to believe.

To be fair, if you're flying a lot closer than that, then you can have a good sense of where your drone is, and what might be near and/or a threat to it. If you fly in relatively congested airspace, it might be a reasonable decision to just not fly very far away.

But since I've never flown in congested airspace, I've never had to make a real world judgement about that!

TCS

I think you made my case for me. Seeing dots against the sky or intermittent flashes a second apart is not the intention of the VLOS rule. My interpretation is you should be able to discern an imminent collision and avoid it.

ps: also, keep in mind there's more to depth perception than binocular vision. We humans have several ways to determine how far away things are. Some of them are still pretty good 1000' away, like parallax.

 

[Robert Prior]

If you then see another dot 15º to the left of your drone, moving toward your drone...a bird, perhaps...you have no clue about whether or not there's any significant collision risk, because you have no usable depth perception about either dot.

To be honest, I think I'd have a better chance of evaluating the risk and avoiding it by looking at the sky rather than looking at the screen.

For one thing, the chances of the drone camera being pointed at whatever that dot is maybe 25% (assuming I'm not spinning the drone around), so I have a better chance of noticing it just by eyeball than I do with the camera view.

I also have much better situational awareness – I can see the entire sky just by turning my head, rather than needing to spin the drone. Hearing also helps — I'm always listening for engines and rotors.

I'm usually within 300 metres, often closer, and that those distances if the approaching object is just a dot it's either really small or further away.

Last year I nearly crashed my Mini shooting video over Harvie Passage. It was hovering, shooting straight down at the rushing water when I realized it was drifting (guess the moving water confused the position sensors) and about to collide with a cable. If I'd been relying on the camera view I'd have lost it.

 

[Wreckhunter]

I see many videos where operators are looking a the screen most of the time? Is this the best way to fly? I was trained to watch the drone more often, but maybe it makes more sense to watch the screen and see what the drone sees more?

50% screen and 50% watching sky,this is most of the time.
I have a para glider close by where I fly which I really have to
watch out for.