Why A Recreational Pilot Should Obtain a Commercial Drone License

[Corbeck]

You have it backwards. And the FAA doesn't use the term "commercial" in it's regs. They still do in some of their summary pages though. And we've tried hard to get them to change some.

14 CFR Part 107 is the default regulations for 99%+ of the sUAS flight in the U.S. The others being Public COA and/or 333 (of which very few, if any, still exist). And you have some Part 135 flights, but for this discussion, let's go with 107 v. 44809.

As I mentioned, 107 is the default, and 44809 is the exception. So unless someone satisfies all 8 (7 until CBOs are published), they're flying under 107.

I'd shy away from asking the ASIs. Odds are they don't know, and will likely guess. KDEN FSDO actually reach out to me when they have a question about drone stuff like this. Instead, I suggest you use the faa.gov email I address posted above. If they don't know, they have the resources to find out.

My BIL basically did that. He was a lead mechanic at United here in Denver, but now he signs off on inspections. Sort of a pseudo FAA inspector. He answers to the FAA and United.

I have dishonored myself. :-(

 

[sar104]

GASP!! You must be correct. Apparently, I have to enjoy flying a drone, if it is not under part 107. I mean, it says so right there. Well, I am corrected, but one do wonder who came up with that interpretation of recreational. Seems a silly basis for an interpretation, but there it is. I guess I was naive. Apologies all around!

The reason for the somewhat strange interpretation is that the FAA did not set the boundary. Congress was lobbied by the model aircraft community to exclude their hobby from Part 107 regulation, and instructed the FAA to exclude it. The FAA took the narrow definition that applied to model aircraft and excluded it. That definition was "flying for fun". Not flying for personal roof inspections, since no one used model aircraft to do that, or any other non-recreational use.

So, as pointed previously, they did not draw the boundary at "non-commercial", they drew it at "non-recreational", which is quite different.

 

[CMartino]

Are you kidding me?!! So now it's come to this. Want to fly a drone and take some cool pictures? Want to have some fun flying your drone around grandpas farm? Want to have a fun activity with your kid?

Well don't leave the government behind. Get all of your Part 107, 109, A-1123. x,y,z. Get so many stickers your drone won't fly. Oops! That's a violation..go directly to jail and do not pass go. Confiscate the drone and your not allowed to have another.

Try this instead. Be responsible. Be considerate. Don't go where your not supposed to go.

Exactly my feelings.

 

[DoomMeister]

Exactly my feelings.

This is how things tend to go when common sense and following simple rules get scoffed at. I interference with manned aircraft, flying above 400’ AGL, flying BVLOS, and so on ends up causing consideration of adopting such rules. It isn’t the government looking for more money, but the present system doesn’t seem to be educating enough drone users that there are rules to follow.

 

[CMartino]

This is how things tend to go when common sense and following simple rules get scoffed at. I interference with manned aircraft, flying above 400’ AGL, flying BVLOS, and so on ends up causing consideration of adopting such rules. It isn’t the government looking for more money, but the present system doesn’t seem to be educating enough drone users that there are rules to follow.

I'm not saying I have a problem with th existing rules. I follow them to the best of my ability all the time when in the sky and have been flying a number of years. I just don't think we need to make everyone take the 107.

 

[DoomMeister]

I'm not saying I have a problem with th existing rules. I follow them to the best of my ability all the time when in the sky and have been flying a number of years. I just don't think we need to make everyone take the 107.

Sorry for my response sounding like I was addressing you personally. That was not my intent. It is more of a general statement for how many treat the rules by blind ignorance of them existing or just not caring and flying when, where, and how they feel.

While training might not be needed to the extent of of §107 level, I feel there needs to be better education of airspace and situational awareness than what is found in the TRUST. Yes it fulfilled vacancy in making people aware of rules for recreational flight, but was too light in explanation of topics.

The discrepancy between B4UFLY and DJI FlySafe has people flying where they shouldn’t and preventing them in areas where it is perfectly fine.

 

[DavidBlezard]

Exactly my feelings.

I agree. The small exception I have to this line of thinking is that some drone owners don’t know what is right and wrong. I happen to have my Part107 because I live and fly near an airport in controlled space. Other than that just do the right thing and have fun!!

 

[lookout]

So if you have controlled airspace, and it is in laanc but you're using it for a part 107 operation. So do you file an automated laanc for the airspace and just carry on with a part 107 activity? Laanc airspace is under the generalized cone of controlled airspace that technically isn't being used underneath manned operations. They won't be trying to land on buildings and streets that cars drive on. The only actual surface of the airspace is the runway and touchdown zone.

Although you are practically in the same airspace doing the same thing, but it's not considered recreational, then you have to fill out all this annoying paperwork and wait 90 days for it to be processed. And have to issue a drontam or whatever. This is a place where committees can't get out of their own way.

While there may be a reason for the faa to want you to have a commercial license just like any other agency for some reasons, I don't really quite understand where the faa wants to make you determine intent of flight.

Some older regulations always started out,

Noone may do anything except for authorized personnel and even then they have to be standing on their head with their hair on fire.

 

[Vic Moss]

So if you have controlled airspace, and it is in laanc but you're using it for a part 107 operation. So do you file an automated laanc for the airspace and just carry on with a part 107 activity? Laanc airspace is under the generalized cone of controlled airspace that technically isn't being used underneath manned operations. They won't be trying to land on buildings and streets that cars drive on. The only actual surface of the airspace is the runway and touchdown zone.

LAANC is open (& required) for all drone ops in controlled airspace. There are some airports (mostly DOD) that don't use LAANC yet. In those cases, you have to apply for a wide area Airspace Authorization (COA) via the Drone Zone.

Also, there is much more than just LZs and runways that are part of airport surface. Anything inside the fence line is airport surface property.

Although you are practically in the same airspace doing the same thing, but it's not considered recreational, then you have to fill out all this annoying paperwork and wait 90 days for it to be processed. And have to issue a drontam or whatever. This is a place where committees can't get out of their own way.

Again, if LAANC is active you simple fill out a form on a LAANC provider (I use Air Control), and fly. At least as long as you are flying under the UASFM limits.

And even for those airport w/o LAANC, and simple COA take much less than 90 days. My last two COAs (for DOD airspace) took less than a week, and they're good for 2 years.

Committees don't have anything to do with this at all. It comes from FAA and DOD management.

While there may be a reason for the faa to want you to have a commercial license just like any other agency for some reasons, I don't really quite understand where the faa wants to make you determine intent of flight.

107 is the default. It has nothing to do with being commercial. That word isn't even used in the regulations. You need to change your point of view.

It's not that they want to control commerce, they're actually making things easier for recreational flyers. They understand that not every drone flight needs to follow the more strict 107 regs, so they created

§44809. Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft​

Some older regulations always started out,

Noone may do anything except for authorized personnel and even then they have to be standing on their head with their hair on fire.

 

[lookout]

LAANC is open (& required) for all drone ops in controlled airspace. There are some airports (mostly DOD) that don't use LAANC yet. In those cases, you have to apply for a wide area Airspace Authorization (COA) via the Drone Zone.

Also, there is much more than just LZs and runways that are part of airport surface. Anything inside the fence line is airport surface property.

Again, if LAANC is active you simple fill out a form on a LAANC provider (I use Air Control), and fly. At least as long as you are flying under the UASFM limits.

And even for those airport w/o LAANC, and simple COA take much less than 90 days. My last two COAs (for DOD airspace) took less than a week, and they're good for 2 years.

Committees don't have anything to do with this at all. It comes from FAA and DOD management.

107 is the default. It has nothing to do with being commercial. That word isn't even used in the regulations. You need to change your point of view.

It's not that they want to control commerce, they're actually making things easier for recreational flyers. They understand that not every drone flight needs to follow the more strict 107 regs, so they created

§44809. Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft​

Part 107 and some paperwork for 0 altitude blocks, so the part 107 can still operate under the UASFM limits without the extra paperwork?

Why do they keep saying that if you do something where it is furthering a business or selling pictures or doing something like that a requirement to get part 107? Making it sound like it is the commercial license even though it is more for the airspace situations.

 

[Vic Moss]

Part 107 and some paperwork for 0 altitude blocks, so the part 107 can still operate under the UASFM limits without the extra paperwork?

Anyone can operate under UASFM limits with a 107 or TRUST. TRUST can't fly at night or over the limits, but those are the only restrictions for controlled airspace.

107 can operate above UASFM limits, but you should apply for a COA via the Drone Zone. Some airports won't process manual LAANC requests for over UASFM limits.

So that is the only time you need extra paperwork for LAANC airports.

Why do they keep saying that if you do something where it is furthering a business or selling pictures or doing something like that a requirement to get part 107? Making it sound like it is the commercial license even though it is more for the airspace situations.

Because "furthering a business or selling pictures" would disqualify you for the recational exception. That's why.

You can't look at it as a commercial certificate. It's the default set of rules. The have a recreational carveout for those who are eligible to fly outside those rules. You can fly recreationally under 107 if you want.

And if you're flying for profit, you can't fly outside those rules. That's how it's structured.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Part 107 and some paperwork for 0 altitude blocks, so the part 107 can still operate under the UASFM limits without the extra paperwork?

Why do they keep saying that if you do something where it is furthering a business or selling pictures or doing something like that a requirement to get part 107? Making it sound like it is the commercial license even though it is more for the airspace situations.

Ummmm, 107 is for commercial business. But . . . That does not mean each and every flight must be a profit venture. I, myself, maintain my 107, earned in 2018/19 not sure which year, but have never earned a penny. Nothing says I must receive revenue for any of my flights. Having the 107 permits me to step out my back door, in the 25’ altitude limit of Class C KCOS and fly LAANC under 107. Recreational cannot do that! Or, believe it or not, I could simply cross the street and fly at 50 foot under LAANC.

 

[Vic Moss]

Ummmm, 107 is for commercial business. But . . . That does not mean each and every flight must be a profit venture. I, myself, maintain my 107, earned in 2018/19 not sure which year, but have never earned a penny. Nothing says I must receive revenue for any of my flights. Having the 107 permits me to step out my back door, in the 25’ altitude limit of Class C KCOS and fly LAANC under 107. Recreational cannot do that!

I'm assuming you have permission to fly 25' in a 0 AGL Grid, and if so, then yes, you're allowed. As there are no 25' grids at KCOS, but if there was, recreational can do that too.

107 is not for commercial business. But if you fly commercially, you must fly under 107. You're looking at it backwards. Flying under a business would disqualify you for the recreational exception for the default set of rules. So you must fly under the default set.

If you fly your buddy's recreationally registered drone, you can't do that under 107. You would have to have the TRUST. Because the default set (107) requires you to fly a drone registered under 107.

Nowhere in 14 CFR Part 107 does the term "Commercial" show up (see below). Many look at them as the commercial rules, but they're not. The FAA even describes the two rules as "Recreational" or "Non-recreational".

We're talking semantics here, but words matter for FARs.

Or, believe it or not, I could simply cross the street and fly at 50 foot under LAANC.

As could anyone flying under 107 or 44809.

 

[lookout]

Anyone can operate under UASFM limits with a 107 or TRUST. TRUST can't fly at night or over the limits, but those are the only restrictions for controlled airspace.

107 can operate above UASFM limits, but you should apply for a COA via the Drone Zone. Some airports won't process manual LAANC requests for over UASFM limits.

So that is the only time you need extra paperwork for LAANC airports.

Because "furthering a business or selling pictures" would disqualify you for the recational exception. That's why.

You can't look at it as a commercial certificate. It's the default set of rules. The have a recreational carveout for those who are eligible to fly outside those rules. You can fly recreationally under 107 if you want.

And if you're flying for profit, you can't fly outside those rules. That's how it's structured.

I don't see why anyone is calling it a commercial license. It don't make any sense. Recreational makes you think of the ama guys, so that's real confusing too. Don't understand why they put everyone under the same umbrella. They could do for some disambiguation. You can fly recreational under part 107, but you still have to turn on your rid module.

 

[theDRONEranger]

I'm assuming you have permission to fly 25' in a 0 AGL Grid, and if so, then yes, you're allowed. As there are no 25' grids at KCOS, but if there was, recreational can do that too.

107 is not for commercial business. But if you fly commercially, you must fly under 107. You're looking at it backwards. Flying under a business would disqualify you for the recreational exception for the default set of rules. So you must fly under the default set.

If you fly your buddy's recreationally registered drone, you can't do that under 107. You would have to have the TRUST. Because the default set (107) requires you to fly a drone registered under 107.

Nowhere in 14 CFR Part 107 does the term "Commercial" show up (see below). Many look at them as the commercial rules, but they're not. The FAA even describes the two rules as "Recreational" or "Non-recreational".

We're talking semantics here, but words matter for FARs.

As could anyone flying under 107 or 44809.

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Vic, I have had 25 pop up in the past for KCOS. Not for me to question why it would have, but maybe the App was wrong. I do maintain my TRUST certificate as well. All I intended was that by me (myself at least) taking the 107 exam, it forced me to become more cognizant as a UAS pilot. Taking the 107 forced me to learn the rules a bit better. To be honest, my health issues (mostly back and lumbar areas) are keeping me from having the better times I wish for. I even have implants to stimulate the pain away. Wish I had my pre military body back! Wanna buy a Mavic Air 1 and Spark complete with custom carry cases? Reasonable offers! Best to you and all for the holidays. Best to all for the holiday seasons.