Your drone will soon be narcing on you

[pixl]

Guys, have a look at this company and their product:
They are actually hijacking the control link between RC and AC and steering the drone to some place of their liking.
MESMER®

One of many drone deterrents available. What they have in common is that they are all very expensive and therefore only likely to be found at airports or military bases -- places you wouldn't fly anyways.

I suspect that for most of us, this stuff is no big deal. The biggest threat to hobby drones is still citizens with guns, and our own stupidity.

 

[smurfslayer]

Based on DJI’s presentation, how is this not an unlawful interception of electronic communication?

 

[xman1]

I found the part that talks about the decrypted data channel:

...To facilitate widespread adoption of this approach, DJI proposes creating at least one open identification protocol for UAS that use wifi control links, in addition to protocols that might be developed for other UAS using other control links. Given the life cycle of this technology, in which we estimate that the typical drone operator purchases a new model within approximately one year, it ought not be difficult for manufacturers to modify existing radio transmission protocols to broadcast identification information, and for the majority of the users to be using the technology within a matter of months from the initial rollout....


Here is it in total what they were proposing last March:


...Thus we propose in concept the following remote identification solutions

1. Primary: radio frequency transmission to local receivers using existing UA antennas and modified C2 or video link protocols including one or more open standards

2. Secondary: Add on modules that make use of one of the link protocols

3. Tertiary: Optional network based identification system, likely over mobile telephone connections and the internet...

Edit: You can read the whole whitepaper here: Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

More reason to avoid upgrading firmware again. Sad.

 

[Chip]

Based on DJI’s presentation, how is this not an unlawful interception of electronic communication?

Its definitely an interception of an electronic signal which can be used to track a person's movements just like a cell tower simulator or "stingray." Some states like WA, passed laws banning use of stingray's without a warrant. But, there is one big exception in WA law. The government cannot use stingrays to track without a warrant unless the device is owned by a third party.

Maybe this is why the US government says we cannot have any DJI product on any of our property but we are happy to outsource surveillance of the general public to DJI so long as we have access to the data without a warrant.

WA RCW 9.73.270

Collecting, using electronic data or metadata—Cell site simulator devices—Requirements.

The state and its political subdivisions shall not, by means of a cell site simulator device, collect or use a person's electronic data or metadata without (1) that person's informed consent, (2) a warrant, based upon probable cause, that describes with particularity the person, place, or thing to be searched or seized, or (3) acting in accordance with a legally recognized exception to the warrant requirements.


RCW 9.73.260

Pen registers, trap and trace devices, cell site simulator devices. (Excerpts)

(1) As used in this section:

(b) "Electronic communication" means any transfer of signs, signals, writing, images, sounds, data, or intelligence of any nature transmitted in whole or in part by a wire, radio, electromagnetic, photoelectronic, or photo-optical system, but does not include:

(i) Any wire or oral communication;

(ii) Any communication made through a tone-only paging device; or

(iii) Any communication from a tracking device, but solely to the extent the tracking device is owned by the applicable law enforcement agency.

 

[Chip]

Outsourcing

Because AeroScope relies on drones directly broadcasting their information to local receivers, not on transmitting data to an internet-based service, it ensures most drone flights will not be automatically recorded in government databases, protecting the privacy interests of people and businesses that use drones.

This system is consistent with DJI’s problem-solving approach to drone regulation, which aims to strike a reasonable balance between authorities’ need to identify drones that raise concerns and drone pilots’ right to fly without pervasive surveillance.

Nice to have third party like China offer to strike this balance for us.

 

[Jacknet007]

Call me crazy, but regulation seems better than prohibition. We should know by now how that works. I don't think accountability is too high a price to share the airspace – any other aircraft has that requirement, why should we be different?

The US tried to prohibit alcohol. It did not work and only spawned a black market. Alcohol, guns, cars, drones are fine as long as you use them responsibly. Some people won't use them responsibly because you can't fix stupid.

 

[Cookedinlh]

People who live in the 21st century need to get over privacy . . lack of "privacy" is part of using the current technology that is all around us. Your local Bed Bath and Beyond knows when you went to bed last night and and data miners all over the world are finding more creative ways to track and analyze your behaviour.

Unscrupulous law enforcement (who have the passwords) can track your car, or their spouses as easily as criminals. . . the only cover you have is anonimity in massive numbers until there is an investigation into WHO WAS THAT? and WHAT WERE THEY DOING?. . .There is no way to put the genie back without creating a bigger genie so if you want to avoid being captured in the monitored data, you need to give up your technology or just behave reasonably and no one will notice . . . or care. You are not that important.

 

[Chip]

People who live in the 21st century need to get over privacy . . . the only cover you have is anonimity in massive numbers until there is an investigation into WHO WAS THAT? and WHAT WERE THEY DOING?. . There is no way to put the genie back without creating a bigger genie so if you want to avoid being captured in the monitored data, you need to give up your technology or just behave reasonably and no one will notice . . . or care. You are not that important.

Your profile has a link to a page that says you specialize in uav regulations and surveillance procedures. Can you disclose what kind of surveillance procedures and for what kind of clients?

 

[Cookedinlh]

Sure it's pretty simple really. . without naming clients . . . it's generally industrial property surveillance and security. I've written several SOPs (Standard Operational Procedures) . . one of which is described in my DRONE ISSUES section about how you can extend VLOS to FVLOS (Forward VLOS) using a Forward Observer in radio communications. This SOP is essential to stay legal in Canada and likely USA too.

Clients are large acreage manufacturing or storage facilities or construction sites. My thing is using small $1000 UAVs under 1kg (like Mavic) to do perimeter searches along fence lines or watercourses and the like where walking or taking a ATV would be difficult or time consuming.

Mavic sized drones have all the equipment and capability to do 80% of that kind of work at very low cost and no need for a $100K machine . . and they deploy a lot faster than the larger commercial ones. . .the new Matrice 210 is a bit bigger but less than $20K with Infrared sensors and/or 30x optical zoom can do all that and more at night.

Hope that helps. Watch for my Close Encounters video coming out soon. Should post next week. Flying my Mavic and Phantom4 Pro with normal aircraft . . .flying together in the same air space. An eye opener for both regular pilots and drone operators. It will be on www.inskyphoto.com.

 

[xman1]

People who live in the 21st century need to get over privacy . . lack of "privacy" is part of using the current technology that is all around us. Your local Bed Bath and Beyond knows when you went to bed last night and and data miners all over the world are finding more creative ways to track and analyze your behaviour.

Unscrupulous law enforcement (who have the passwords) can track your car, or their spouses as easily as criminals. . . the only cover you have is anonimity in massive numbers until there is an investigation into WHO WAS THAT? and WHAT WERE THEY DOING?. . .There is no way to put the genie back without creating a bigger genie so if you want to avoid being captured in the monitored data, you need to give up your technology or just behave reasonably and no one will notice . . . or care. You are not that important.

This is absolutely horse ****. All is fun and games until someone loses an eye.

Note that you have absolute control over everything that they can data-mine with some simple knowledge. Learn up. The only thing you cannot stop is your electronic phone call, and even then you could potentially encrypt it. Make that call through Signal and even Signal cannot even listen to it.

 

[DroningOn]

This is absolutely horse ****. All is fun and games until someone loses an eye.

Note that you have absolute control over everything that they can data-mine with some simple knowledge. Learn up. The only thing you cannot stop is your electronic phone call, and even then you could potentially encrypt it. Make that call through Signal and even Signal cannot even listen to it.

Amen Brother!! It may be time consuming but it isn’t hard to protect your privacy.

 

[Cookedinlh]

An

Amen Brother!! It may be time consuming but it isn’t hard to protect your privacy.

And you are already spending a LOT of time doing that. . .it gets worse with every APP and every update. Privacy has changed significantly in the past 10 years . . and not for the better.

 

[xman1]

An

And you are already spending a LOT of time doing that. . .it gets worse with every APP and every update. Privacy has changed significantly in the past 10 years . . and not for the better.

I have to agree with this. It took a while to get everything locked down, but once it is in place, not much effort is required from that point.

It really comes down to who wants to roll over and die and just take it, and who wants to stand up and fight it. I suspect the numbers that fight it will grow in time as most people don't like being taken advantage of.

 

[DroningOn]

I have to agree with this. It took a while to get everything locked down, but once it is in place, not much effort is required from that point.

It really comes down to who wants to roll over and die and just take it, and who wants to stand up and fight it. I suspect the numbers that fight it will grow in time as most people don't like being taken advantage of.

Very true.... I started taking steps 15 years ago to protect my information and minimize or do away with completely my “cyber” and public footprint. It’s all second nature now.

 

[ac0j]

Offutt Air Force Base Expands Protection Against Drones | Military.com


Maybe this will be an electronic drone downing system created by DJI?
Sorry that it has come to this. BUT you can thank all the "privacy" advocates that cant stay out of protected air space.

 

[DroningOn]

Offutt Air Force Base Expands Protection Against Drones | Military.com


Maybe this will be an electronic drone downing system created by DJI?
Sorry that it has come to this. BUT you can thank all the "privacy" advocates that cant stay out of protected air space.

I love it! So now those of us who try to stay “private“ (your quotes) are now a problem?
I will try to maintain a semblance of politeness therefore I will just shut up

 

[Freebird32]

BUT you can thank all the "privacy" advocates that cant stay out of protected air space.

No, you can thank the stupid drone pilots. Drone pilots who ignore laws and endanger others aren't necessarily 'privacy' advocates. Idiots maybe, but... Two separate subjects as DroningOn alluded to above.

I fly real airplanes and hobby drones and rc aircraft and _not_ in violation of any rules. I also like my privacy. Too much data out there on each of us now (broadly speaking, in lots of venues) that isn't very well protected. Equifax was breached recently. The chinese have my fingerprints and a bunch of my other data from a Defense department breach a few years ago. What's next? I think everyone is just fed up with collection of data that they have shown cannot be properly protected and can also be mis-used, drones are just another example. Do you have an insurance company dongle plugged into your car to get a break on rates? Lets them know if you speed among other things. Should everyone have one?

 

[ac0j]

Sorry, I assumed the “privacy” advocates would know who I was talking about.
For clarification, I was referring to the ones that don’t want big brother to know when they are bending the rules. They know who they are

ETA: I don’t see the need to worry to much about privacy. I don’t do anything that anyone of importance would be interested in. I don’t generally speed either.

 

[xman1]

Offutt Air Force Base Expands Protection Against Drones | Military.com


Maybe this will be an electronic drone downing system created by DJI?
Sorry that it has come to this. BUT you can thank all the "privacy" advocates that cant stay out of protected air space.

I am pretty sure the morons who violate such protected airspace are clueless when it comes to privacy about their drone. They lack half a brain cell to know the first step.

 

[Chip]

Offutt Air Force Base Expands Protection Against Drones | Military.com
Maybe this will be an electronic drone downing system created by DJI? Sorry that it has come to this. BUT you can thank all the "privacy" advocates that cant stay out of protected air space.

The US Army and several other federal agencies have banned any DJI product or component part (down to the screws and wires) from their property. So, if it is a system designed or manufactured by DJI, the Air Force must not have gotten the memo yet.