Beware of Temp NFZ Activating while your in the Air. Drone downed by DJI

[sar104]

That’s the list I do use, but I sometimes can’t find some events on it in our area like NASCAR events - they only occasionally get listed. Also notice that the site even says it's incomplete in red at the bottom. I guess just making sure you look at that and also look at the NOTAMS from your regional airport would also help. Always CYA, ‘k?

!FDC 7/4319 FDC PART 1 OF 3 SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELECT SPORTING EVENTS. THIS NOTAM REPLACES FDC NOTAM 4/3621 TO CLARIFY ATC AUTHORIZATION OF TRANSITING FLIGHTS. THIS NOTAM IMPLEMENTS SECTION 352 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-7 AS AMENDED BY SECTION 521 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-199. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B)(3), THE FAA CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED BELOW WITHIN AN AREA DEFINED AS: 3 NMR OF A QUALIFYING STADIUM OR OTHER SPORTING VENUE HOSTING A QUALIFYING EVENT UP TO AND INCLUDING 3000FT AGL. QUALIFYING LOCATIONS AND EVENTS ARE DEFINED AS ANY STADIUM OR OTHER SPORTING VENUE HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 30,000 OR MORE WHERE: 1) A REGULAR OR POST SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL 1707201400-PERM END PART 1 OF 3 !FDC 7/4319 FDC PART 2 OF 3 SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELECT LEAGUE, OR NCAA DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL GAME IS OCCURRING; OR 2) A NASCAR CUP, INDY CAR, OR CHAMP SERIES RACE IS OCCURRING, EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS. THIS FLIGHT PROHIBITION IS IN EFFECT ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED START UNTIL ONE HOUR AFTER THE END OF A QUALIFYING EVENT. THIS FLIGHT PROHIBITION APPLIES TO ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS (INCLUDING TRAINING, PARACHUTE JUMPING, AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS - INCLUDING MODEL AIRCRAFT FLIGHTS) UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT OPERATOR MEETS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS: A) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY PURPOSES, INCLUDING AUTHORIZATION OF FLIGHTS SPECIFICALLY ARRIVING AT OR DEPARTING FROM AN AIRPORT DESIGNATED BY ATC USING STANDARD ATC PROCEDURES AND ROUTES; B) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION IS BEING CONDUCTED FOR OPERATIONAL, SAFETY, OR SECURITY PURPOSES SUPPORTING THE QUALIFYING EVENT, AND IS AUTHORIZED BY AN AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER APPROVED BY THE FAA; C) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION IS ENABLING BROADCAST COVERAGE FOR THE BROADCAST RIGHTS HOLDER FOR THE QUALIFYING EVENT, AND IS AUTHORIZED BY AN AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER APPROVED BY THE FAA; 1707201400-PERM END PART 2 OF 3 !FDC 7/4319 FDC PART 3 OF 3 SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELECT D) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR NATIONAL SECURITY, HOMELAND SECURITY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR AIR AMBULANCE PURPOSES; PILOTS OPERATING IN THE DEFINED AIRSPACE ARE REMINDED THAT AN FAA AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER DOES NOT RELIEVE OPERATORS FROM OBTAINING ALL OTHER NECESSARY AUTHORIZATIONS, INCLUDING THOSE SPECIFIC TO FLIGHTS OVER EVENTS HELD IN STADIUMS AND OTHER SPORTING VENUES, AND COMPLYING WITH ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATIONS. PILOTS MUST CONTINUOUSLY SQUAWK AN ATC-ASSIGNED BEACON CODE AND MAINTAIN 2-WAY RADIO CONTACT WITH ATC WHILE OPERATING IN THE DEFINED AIRSPACE. ALL PREVIOUSLY ISSUED WAIVERS TO FDC NOTAM 4/3621 REMAIN VALID UNTIL THE SPECIFIED END DATE BUT NOT TO EXCEED 90 DAYS FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS NOTAM. INFORMATION ABOUT AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER APPLICATIONS AND TSA SECURITY AUTHORIZATIONS CAN BE FOUND AT General Aviation OR BY CALLING TSA AT 571-227-2071. SUBMIT REQUESTS FOR FAA AIRSPACE WAIVERS AT HTTPS://WAIVERS.FAA.GOV. 1707201400-PERM END PART 3 OF 3

 

[BillD]

It appears that the area where the OP was flying is actually a temporary blue "authorization" zone on the DJI Geo map - the kind that are in effect for MLB & NFL games in major cities. We have them in my city for the same reason, but now also even for college football games at two universities near me. As the OP pointed out in the video he made the following day, all he had to do to continue flying where he was, was to complete the self authorization checkboxes, and he was completely free to fly in this area with nothing other than the altitude restrictions already in place. To me, this is a clear flaw in the DJI GEO system, and one that needs immediate correction. OP, I a sorry for the loss of your bird, and I hope DJI makes it right for you. And thanks for pointing out this serious error in the GEO system.

 

[sar104]

It appears that the area where the OP was flying is actually a temporary blue "authorization" zone on the DJI Geo map - the kind that are in effect for MLB & NFL games in major cities. We have them in my city for the same reason, but now also even for college football games at two universities near me. As the OP pointed out in the video he made the following day, all he had to do to continue flying where he was, was to complete the self authorization checkboxes, and he was completely free to fly in this area with nothing other than the altitude restrictions already in place. To me, this is a clear flaw in the DJI GEO system, and one that needs immediate correction. OP, I a sorry for the loss of your bird, and I hope DJI makes it right for you. And thanks for pointing out this serious error in the GEO system.

That's right - the DJI geo system does let you break the law provided that you acknowledge that you are aware that you are doing it. But you think that the fact that he didn't even know how to do that means that DJI is responsible for the loss of his drone? This thread is certainly bringing out the abdicating personal responsibility crowd in droves.

 

[bkushner]

Let me shed some light. Yes I am and was aware that the area has temp NFZ. Usually I waive out from my computer the night before and usually when I arrive it's in place and I can't take off until I import the waiver into craft or I waive from the controller. However since normally by the time I get down there the temp NFZ is already up I wasn't thinking about it going into effect when I was in the air. That is my fault and I take responsibility. Also flying over water is my responsibility too. I didn't bash DJI about this I was just more pissed that it autolanded and gave no other alternative. I support and like the Geo zones, maybe I'm one of the few. That area is ALWAYS Altitude restricted and I support that as well. It allows me to fly in that area. So ultimately this was MY FAULT. Not knowing what would happen let the temp nfz slip out of my mind for a bit. I can assure you it won't happen again. I will be over ground next time. One thing to note is I was waived for that flight on the computer but I couldn't import the waiver until the temp NFZ went into effect. So at 6:05 I should have been on the ground waiting for the zone to kick in. The main reason I posted and made the video was to warn others, thus the title BEWARE. Hopefully this helps. Again, my fault but wish it happened differently. How many of you knew before now that the bird would autoland in place in this situation? I didn't and I like to think I am pretty well versed in flying and safety.

 

[bkushner]

That's right - the DJI geo system does let you break the law provided that you acknowledge that you are aware that you are doing it. But you think that the fact that he didn't even know how to do that means that DJI is responsible for the loss of his drone? This thread is certainly bringing out the abdicating personal responsibility crowd in droves.

I knew how to do it and do it all the time as I fly there all the time. See my explanation below before you assume I'm some idiot. I take flying safely very seriously. One thing that's comical is the temp NFZ for the stadium covers far more area then the actual Airport NFZ.

 

[AMann]

View attachment 71553

!FDC 7/4319 FDC PART 1 OF 3 SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELECT SPORTING EVENTS. THIS NOTAM REPLACES FDC NOTAM 4/3621 TO CLARIFY ATC AUTHORIZATION OF TRANSITING FLIGHTS. THIS NOTAM IMPLEMENTS SECTION 352 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-7 AS AMENDED BY SECTION 521 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-199. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B)(3), THE FAA CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED BELOW WITHIN AN AREA DEFINED AS: 3 NMR OF A QUALIFYING STADIUM OR OTHER SPORTING VENUE HOSTING A QUALIFYING EVENT UP TO AND INCLUDING 3000FT AGL. QUALIFYING LOCATIONS AND EVENTS ARE DEFINED AS ANY STADIUM OR OTHER SPORTING VENUE HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 30,000 OR MORE WHERE: 1) A REGULAR OR POST SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL 1707201400-PERM END PART 1 OF 3 !FDC 7/4319 FDC PART 2 OF 3 SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELECT LEAGUE, OR NCAA DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL GAME IS OCCURRING; OR 2) A NASCAR CUP, INDY CAR, OR CHAMP SERIES RACE IS OCCURRING, EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS. THIS FLIGHT PROHIBITION IS IN EFFECT ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED START UNTIL ONE HOUR AFTER THE END OF A QUALIFYING EVENT. THIS FLIGHT PROHIBITION APPLIES TO ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS (INCLUDING TRAINING, PARACHUTE JUMPING, AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS - INCLUDING MODEL AIRCRAFT FLIGHTS) UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT OPERATOR MEETS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS: A) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY PURPOSES, INCLUDING AUTHORIZATION OF FLIGHTS SPECIFICALLY ARRIVING AT OR DEPARTING FROM AN AIRPORT DESIGNATED BY ATC USING STANDARD ATC PROCEDURES AND ROUTES; B) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION IS BEING CONDUCTED FOR OPERATIONAL, SAFETY, OR SECURITY PURPOSES SUPPORTING THE QUALIFYING EVENT, AND IS AUTHORIZED BY AN AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER APPROVED BY THE FAA; C) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION IS ENABLING BROADCAST COVERAGE FOR THE BROADCAST RIGHTS HOLDER FOR THE QUALIFYING EVENT, AND IS AUTHORIZED BY AN AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER APPROVED BY THE FAA; 1707201400-PERM END PART 2 OF 3 !FDC 7/4319 FDC PART 3 OF 3 SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELECT D) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR NATIONAL SECURITY, HOMELAND SECURITY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR AIR AMBULANCE PURPOSES; PILOTS OPERATING IN THE DEFINED AIRSPACE ARE REMINDED THAT AN FAA AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER DOES NOT RELIEVE OPERATORS FROM OBTAINING ALL OTHER NECESSARY AUTHORIZATIONS, INCLUDING THOSE SPECIFIC TO FLIGHTS OVER EVENTS HELD IN STADIUMS AND OTHER SPORTING VENUES, AND COMPLYING WITH ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATIONS. PILOTS MUST CONTINUOUSLY SQUAWK AN ATC-ASSIGNED BEACON CODE AND MAINTAIN 2-WAY RADIO CONTACT WITH ATC WHILE OPERATING IN THE DEFINED AIRSPACE. ALL PREVIOUSLY ISSUED WAIVERS TO FDC NOTAM 4/3621 REMAIN VALID UNTIL THE SPECIFIED END DATE BUT NOT TO EXCEED 90 DAYS FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS NOTAM. INFORMATION ABOUT AIRSPACE SECURITY WAIVER APPLICATIONS AND TSA SECURITY AUTHORIZATIONS CAN BE FOUND AT General Aviation OR BY CALLING TSA AT 571-227-2071. SUBMIT REQUESTS FOR FAA AIRSPACE WAIVERS AT HTTPS://WAIVERS.FAA.GOV. 1707201400-PERM END PART 3 OF 3

This TFR is on AIRMAP as is the one at Yankee Stadium for today, but I couldn't see either on the FAA TFR map site. A lot of people probably make the mistake of only checking one, and novices are definitely making mistakes and not even realizing it. It’s good OP started this thread, hopefully more people will read it.

 

[sar104]

I knew how to do it and do it all the time as I fly there all the time. See my explanation below before you assume I'm some idiot. I take flying safely very seriously. One thing that's comical is the temp NFZ for the stadium covers far more area then the actual Airport NFZ.

Just curious - how are you getting a waiver for an FDC TFR?

 

[ac0j]

not DJI's fault. NO WAY no how. If you fly there all the time then it only makes you look dumber to not have known flight is restricted there on game days....
live and learn, know better next time, educate yourself to prevent further problems.

 

[Thomas B]

Sorry, we shall just have to agree to disagree. The few minutes to RTH immediately as a NFZ pops up would present no threat.

Completely agree!

 

[MarcoMavic2pro]

Lately it seems that disastrous forced landings often happen.

This is my experience of only a couple of weeks ago My Mavic2 IS DOWN IN THE RIVER

 

[AMann]

Lately it seems that disastrous forced landings often happen.

This is my experience of only a couple of weeks ago My Mavic2 IS DOWN IN THE RIVER

Unfortunately, it also seems you made the same mistake of taking off and flying in an NFZ- isn’t that what the flight log indicated in that other post?

 

[bkushner]

not DJI's fault. NO WAY no how. If you fly there all the time then it only makes you look dumber to not have known flight is restricted there on game days....
live and learn, know better next time, educate yourself to prevent further problems.

Guess you didn't read my explanation before jumping in with this nastygram!

 

[bkushner]

Unfortunately, it also seems you made the same mistake of taking off and flying in an NFZ- isn’t that what the flight log indicated in that other post?

It was NOT A NFZ when I took off.

 

[sar104]

It was NOT A NFZ when I took off.

But you said in post #64 that you do fly in the NFZ with a waiver, and also a VLOS waiver presumably. I'm still really curious how you obtained those.

 

[gnirtS]

Sorry, we shall just have to agree to disagree. The few minutes to RTH immediately as a NFZ pops up would present no threat.

Other than illegally flying in a no fly zone. Which exists because for various reasons, no flying is permitted inside them. The only sane course of action is to stop the flying as quickly as possible. So an immediate landing.

 

[bkushner]

But you said in post #64 that you do fly in the NFZ with a waiver, and also a VLOS waiver presumably. I'm still really curious how you obtained those.

DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography

As the market leader in easy-to-fly drones and aerial photography systems, DJI quadcopters like the Phantom are the standard in consumer drone technology.

www.dji.com

 

[Thomas B]

Other than illegally flying in a no fly zone. Which exists because for various reasons, no flying is permitted inside them. The only sane course of action is to stop the flying as quickly as possible. So an immediate landing.

It was NOT A NFZ when I took off.

Stop flying as soon as safely possible should be the mark. The current method as described by the OP could easily result in injury or property damage since the drone is clearly out of control ... could land on someone, auto, etc, and the notification system on the FAA site, as others note above, is not reliable currently.

 

[sar104]

DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography

As the market leader in easy-to-fly drones and aerial photography systems, DJI quadcopters like the Phantom are the standard in consumer drone technology.

www.dji.com

A self-unlock from DJI does not constitute authorization to fly in a TFR, so you are habitually just self-unlocking and then flying illegally? And the VLOS waiver? Am I misunderstanding something here? You appear to be breaking multiple laws.

 

[gnirtS]

Stop flying as soon as safely possible should be the mark. The current method as described by the OP could easily result in injury or property damage since the drone is clearly out of control ... could land on someone, auto, etc, and the notification system on the FAA site, as others note above, is not reliable currently.

Its perfectly safe, it makes a slow, controlled descent and landing. As opposed to giving the users control which they'd most likely ignore and continue flying over a much larger area for longer in an area they're not meant to be in.

The solution is simple - check NOTAMs before flying. These aren't random events that spring up with no warning. It just means being less lazy before flying. Delays the instant gratification by 60 seconds or so.

 

[sar104]

Stop flying as soon as safely possible should be the mark. The current method as described by the OP could easily result in injury or property damage since the drone is clearly out of control ... could land on someone, auto, etc, and the notification system on the FAA site, as others note above, is not reliable currently.

This thread is turning into an exhibition-quality example of why there is a widespread demand for increased regulation of sUAS. Even among a community of (arguably) relatively enlightened pilots the degree of misunderstanding of these basic laws is quite frightening.

As for the FAA TFR website, it is clearly marked as not necessarily current and not the approved method to check for NOTAMs.

Depicted TFR data may not be a complete listing. Pilots should not use the information on this website for flight planning purposes. For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF.