DJI may allow large enterprise users to opt out of Geo if they are willing to pay $$$$$

[sar104]

That's true but apparently the RC field or AMA got permission from the FAA for their field. No way would AMA allow a field to fly in a spot that the FAA disallowed. Their insurance wouldn't allow it.

I'm sure that they do have an arrangement, and I'm sure that it comes with very stringent rules. That doesn't change the airspace though, and anyone could fly there, right on the runway centerline, without any affiliation to the field and without following any of the rules that they presumably follow.

Back to your statement "In many cases DJI restricts flights in airspace that is wide open." I still haven't seen any examples.

 

[VintageSlots]

Here is a video I did to document GEO locking me out in class G airspace. I did this to prove to DJI what was going on because they refused to believe me.

 

[sar104]

Here is a video I did to document GEO locking me out in class G airspace. I did this to prove to DJI what was going on because they refused to believe me.

I didn't have time to watch the entire video so apologies if I missed anything. couple of observations. Firstly, that's the old GEO system, so the zones have been refined. In terms of not being able to fly it's hard to tell what was going on. For some reason you didn't point out that the app was telling you that you were in a warning zone, and to fly with caution. So it clearly didn't think it was a NFZ. From that perspective the system appeared to be working.

The cause of the "Cannot take off message" wasn't clear, and you didn't try a comparison test outside the authorization zones. Are you quite sure that it was an NFZ problem and not something else going on with the aircraft? Anyway - if that was the cause then it's a bug rather than a policy, and not really relevant to this discussion.

 

[Keule]

Here is a video I did to document GEO locking me out in class G airspace. I did this to prove to DJI what was going on because they refused to believe me.

You were trying to 'outsmart' GEO by running old AC firmware and old GO 4 app.
They are using the old GEO system.

Update all your equipment to current firmware and run GO4 IOS v4.3.5.
Run the tests again with GEO 2.0 compliant AC/RC/GO4.

 

[RayOZ]

I don't it boils down to paying DJI some $$$, they press a button and it removes the geo block. I think DJI would pass the application to their enterprise team to verify with whoever is the authority over the airspace to make sure it is legitimate before they remove the geo block. Probably it adds to DJI insurance's premium since they would bear some responsibility if an incident occurs. You think paying $$$ to DJI and they'll just remove the geo block so you can fly around a nuclear power plant?

 

[VintageSlots]

You were trying to 'outsmart' GEO by running old AC firmware and old GO 4 app.
They are using the old GEO system.

Update all your equipment to current firmware and run GO4 IOS v4.3.5.
Run the tests again with GEO 2.0 compliant AC/RC/GO4.

Good grief, you said you never saw any examples so I was showing you one. The video is at least two years old and when it was done everything was running on current FW.

This was just one of many examples that I ran into when flying a commercial job where DJI's GEO screwed me up.

If you look at the comments in the video you will see one from DJI where they admitted it was a problem and they fixed it.

I have no problem with GEO as long as it works as advertised. The issue is that it doesn't. To implement GEO correctly is a tough problem and DJI isn't even close to implementing it properly.

Geo V2 is much better but they still report airfields that don't exist and have never existed. Just like B4UFLY does.

 

[VintageSlots]

I don't it boils down to paying DJI some $$$, they press a button and it removes the geo block. I think DJI would pass the application to their enterprise team to verify with whoever is the authority over the airspace to make sure it is legitimate before they remove the geo block. Probably it adds to DJI insurance's premium since they would bear some responsibility if an incident occurs. You think paying $$$ to DJI and they'll just remove the geo block so you can fly around a nuclear power plant?

That is why if DJI wants to do this stuff they should work with LAANC. If a commercial pilot has the permission from the FAA to fly over a nuclear power plant why should DJI deny it?

FYI, I am also a full scale pilot. If I go out and hop in a Cessna I don't need to request permission from Cessna to fly anywhere. I do need permission from the FAA to fly in certain airspace though.

If I flew a Cessna into a power plant do you think Cessna would be sued (assuming the accident wasn't caused by Cessna).

Yeah, I know, in today's litigious society they probably would .

 

[VintageSlots]

I think I made a mistake in posting this to this group. I don't think most of the people in this group appreciates what commercial users (both small and large) have to deal with.

If anyone cares, go to DJI and "Pay for Play" to see what the commercial operators are saying about this policy.

 

[sar104]

Good grief, you said you never saw any examples so I was showing you one. The video is at least two years old and when it was done everything was running on current FW.

This was just one of many examples that I ran into when flying a commercial job where DJI's GEO screwed me up.

If you look at the comments in the video you will see one from DJI where they admitted it was a problem and they fixed it.

I have no problem with GEO as long as it works as advertised. The issue is that it doesn't. To implement GEO correctly is a tough problem and DJI isn't even close to implementing it properly.

Geo V2 is much better but they still report airfields that don't exist and have never existed. Just like B4UFLY does.

You still haven't provided any current examples.

 

[VintageSlots]

You still haven't provided any current examples.

Fine, go to the DJI GEO V2 Map and do a search for Wings N Things Arpk & Museum. Attached is a photo showing just a dirt field out in the middle of nowhere

This is not a restricted area but one of many bogus "warning zones" so you get a bogus warning on the screen about an airport.

This place has never existed and never will. DJI was notified well over a year ago and did nothing to correct their maps.

DJI GEO V2 has only been out a month or so and the drone business is slow right now in Colorado so I have not really had a chance to try it out much.

I do know that a lot of the altitude restrictions are bogus though.

The problem I had with GEO V1 was the GEO map would say no problem but when you get to a job it was a NO GO because of the buggy GEO system and you had to request an unlock from DJI. Sometimes the unlock worked and sometimes it didn't :-(

 

[dannybgoode]

I think I made a mistake in posting this to this group. I don't think most of the people in this group appreciates what commercial users (both small and large) have to deal with.

If anyone cares, go to DJI and "Pay for Play" to see what the commercial operators are saying about this policy.

Not really. You posted about something DJI are doing that you don’t like. Some other people posted saying they don’t see the issue.

You seem to be getting upset that some people don’t ageee with you.

People disagree with me all the time - that’s fine as that’s life.

Microsoft will continue to support Win XP if you’re prepared to pay them plenty. This upset a lot of hardcore home XP users but it is the nature of an enterprise relationship with a large company.

Same with DJI. I don’t have any issues with GEO and what it is trying to achieve. If Parrot or Autel ever get to the same number of users I’m sure they’ll implement something similar to protect their backs. Sure GEO isn’t perfect but it’s a useful tool to help keep hobbyists and everyone else safe.

 

[sar104]

Fine, go to the DJI GEO V2 Map and do a search for Wings N Things Arpk & Museum. Attached is a photo showing just a dirt field out in the middle of nowhere

This is not a restricted area but one of many bogus "warning zones" so you get a bogus warning on the screen about an airport.

This place has never existed and never will. DJI was notified well over a year ago and did nothing to correct their maps.

DJI GEO V2 has only been out a month or so and the drone business is slow right now in Colorado so I have not really had a chance to try it out much.

I do know that a lot of the altitude restrictions are bogus though.

The problem I had with GEO V1 was the GEO map would say no problem but when you get to a job it was a NO GO because of the buggy GEO system and you had to request an unlock from DJI. Sometimes the unlock worked and sometimes it didn't :-(

Did you check before posting? That location is in the GEO database but doesn't have any warnings or restrictions associated with it. This exercise is rapidly becoming completely futile.

 

[VintageSlots]

Did you check before posting? That location is in the GEO database but doesn't have any warnings or restrictions associated with it. This exercise is rapidly becoming completely futile.

View attachment 54954

Sigh, YES I did. The screen shot was taken just a few minutes before the post. I just checked again and it is still there.

I said it was in a WARNING ZONE. Did you have Warning Zone checked on the map. See below. By the way, many of the other things flagged as airports are NOT airports. Just fields.

Just like GEO V1, it looks like DJI did no checking to confirm airports are real.

 

[VintageSlots]

Not really. You posted about something DJI are doing that you don’t like. Some other people posted saying they don’t see the issue.

You seem to be getting upset that some people don’t ageee with you.

People disagree with me all the time - that’s fine as that’s life.

Microsoft will continue to support Win XP if you’re prepared to pay them plenty. This upset a lot of hardcore home XP users but it is the nature of an enterprise relationship with a large company.

Same with DJI. I don’t have any issues with GEO and what it is trying to achieve. If Parrot or Autel ever get to the same number of users I’m sure they’ll implement something similar to protect their backs. Sure GEO isn’t perfect but it’s a useful tool to help keep hobbyists and everyone else safe.

I have no issues with the concept of GEO. I do have issues when it prevents me from flying in airspace where I am legally allowed (per the FAA) to fly. I agree something like GEO is probably needed to prevent the uneducated from doing something stupid (like flying into the Whitehouse lawn). GEO is a hard thing to implement properly. They totally screwed up on V1, time will tell on V2.

I don't get upset when people disagree with me. Like you, it happens all the time. What does get annoying is when I am asked to show proof, and I do show the proof, then people still don't get it or continue to question the evidence.

 

[sar104]

Sigh, YES I did. The screen shot was taken just a few minutes before the post. I just checked again and it is still there.

I said it was in a WARNING ZONE. Did you have Warning Zone checked on the map. See below. By the way, many of the other things flagged as airports are NOT airports. Just fields.

Just like GEO V1, it looks like DJI did no checking to confirm airports are real.

You were complaining about having to authorize. The yellow warning circles don't require any authorization process - they are just informational.

 

[Tesadorn]

I can’t see enterprise users rushing to Parrot or Autel though. Or many consumers if I’m honest...

You are correct for now... This WILL change.. DJI is currently in the process of shooting a foot... It may be a year or 2 away but DJI will feel the pain...

 

[VintageSlots]

You were complaining about having to authorize. The yellow warning circles don't require any authorization process - they are just informational.

Good grief. In the post where I showed the map I made it very clear that Wings N Things was in a Warning Area and the place doesn't exist and has never existed. You then posted the map with warnings area unselected. Please read the post in its entirety if you are going to try and prove me wrong.

Yes, the warning areas are just informational but there are a TON that are wrong. This results in the DJI Go 4 app given constant warnings that are wrong. This is like the child who called wolf and will result is people just ignoring them.

I also said that Geo V2 has only been out a month or so and because of the weather in Colorado I have not had a chance to really test it but given the history with Geo V1 I have low expectations that V2 will be perfect.

If DJI can't get the warnings area right I have low expectations that they will get the restricted or the authorized areas right.

If you look at the Geo V2 maps you will see there are altitude restrictions which are much more restrictive than FAA restrictions which will result in Part 107 pilots needing to ask permission from DJI to fly in perfectly legal locations and even class G locations.

 

[VintageSlots]

You are correct for now... This WILL change.. DJI is currently in the process of shooting a foot... It may be a year or 2 away but DJI will feel the pain...

I have a buddy who always carries an Autel as a backup when DJI locks him out of airspace that he is legal to fly in.

He prefers to fly the DJI bird but I know of at least one instance he used the Autel because DJI's GEO incorrectly locked him out. This was under the V1 system.

 

[RayOZ]

So what do you actually want? DJI to just allow their users to disable GEO block because there's a error at a particular spot. Just because some one is a Part 107 pilot, it doesn't mean they'll stick with the rules all the time. Licensed or not, some people will push the boundaries. Just because a driver has a driver's license it doesn't that driver won't speed, DUI, etc.
Nobody should expect the GEO v2 to be perfect. You expect DJI has the whole world's airspace perfectly mapped? Google hasn't got the world's land map perfectly mapped.
DJI restriction is more restrictive than FAA's restriction is better than the opposite, don't you think? That way, they wont get into trouble with FAA.

 

[VintageSlots]

So what do you actually want? DJI to just allow their users to disable GEO block because there's a error at a particular spot. Just because some one is a Part 107 pilot, it doesn't mean they'll stick with the rules all the time. Licensed or not, some people will push the boundaries. Just because a driver has a driver's license it doesn't that driver won't speed, DUI, etc.
Nobody should expect the GEO v2 to be perfect. You expect DJI has the whole world's airspace perfectly mapped? Google hasn't got the world's land map perfectly mapped.
DJI restriction is more restrictive than FAA's restriction is better than the opposite, don't you think? That way, they wont get into trouble with FAA.

Who knows the NAS better? The Chinese or the FAA?

I think the FAA does. You think the Chinese. That is fine. That is your opinion, and it is OK to agree to disagree.

Not sure how the Google Map argument fits in. I don't need permission from Google to do anything.