Flight logs. Concerned.

[Trollistika]

Speaking of data stored in the computer of your car..........
To the best of my knowledge, you cannot access it

Thats nothing..... Look into MinixOS. Not even unplugging your PC kills it. Nope. Lol

 

[sar104]

Love to actually know your security clearance.... or maybe your paranoia admittance?

This thread is a perfect example of one of the huge downsides of social media - one trolling campaign leads to amplification of total nonsense by a significant number of other posters, including several who should know better. Fascinating to watch, but quite destructive.

 

[BigAl07]

This thread is back OPEN!! Keep the conversation CIVIL, and On Topic. Anything less and we will close it and deal with those violating the Community Guidelines individually.

Be NICE or don't post!!

 

[Trollistika]

Respectfully disagree with Sar104, and note taken on the thread. But on a lighter note... Came across this good article on drones.

DHS drone data left vulnerable, audit finds

While the Department of Homeland Security has looked to step up its use of drones to patrol the southern border, lax security policies have left the collected data vulnerable, a new audit finds.

www.cyberscoop.com

Personally think this will lead to inside government regulations that will trickle down to consumers.

 

[Trollistika]

That's good news! Advice you who disagree to bounce to another thread. No need for negativity. I think it's a good thread to talk about drone security. Eventually it can creep up on all of us to uncomfortable level. Also, it's railed slightly off topic due to the nature of the topic but I'll post new drone security stuff from my security team when it's fit. Thank you all for contributing ! All viewpoints are valid and welcomed!

 

[Thomas B]

The US government is not allowed to tap phones in the US but can and does tap phones in every other nation, legally. They need no warrant.

I fear this is the case. Some agency of the government will likely do it in the interests of “national security” and do so covertly. Consequences? ... unknown.

 

[Trollistika]

I fear this is the case. Some agency of the government will likely do it in the interests of “national security” and do so covertly. Consequences? ... unknown.

Yep. Snowden was all over this. My concern is our logs being used against us for more regulations or worse.... Fines.

 

[Maviac]

Do I LIKE the fact that what is in reality a Chinese government actor has access to my flight data? Not particularly. But as has been thoroughly hashed over here, what is the practical effect? Maybe they'll get some pictures of my house and know where I am? Google, Amazon, etc. already have a lot more data (and I'm well versed in what the government has to do to get that data). Cost, benefit, etc.

If I were flying over sensitive government sites that'd be one thing. But really, I'm entirely unimportant, and the Chinese government probably already has better pics of my house and far more important places. So, put me on team "you're overly paranoid" (although I do understand the concern).

 

[Trollistika]

Do I LIKE the fact that what is in reality a Chinese government actor has access to my flight data? Not particularly. But as has been thoroughly hashed over here, what is the practical effect? Maybe they'll get some pictures of my house and know where I am? Google, Amazon, etc. already have a lot more data (and I'm well versed in what the government has to do to get that data). Cost, benefit, etc.

If I were flying over sensitive government sites that'd be one thing. But really, I'm entirely unimportant, and the Chinese government probably already has better pics of my house and far more important places. So, put me on team "you're overly paranoid" (although I do understand the concern).

Excellent reply! Fully respect your viewpoint. Let me emphasize my personal concern. What raises my eye brow more than anything is the flight logs being available for U.S entities to go after drone pilots who may or may not have broken FAA rules either knowingly or by honest miscalculation. Add this scenario...

You are flying your drone in a G air space. There's no private properties or structures to fear. No restriction at all. As you fly 400ft and a sudden gust of updraft wind comes along sailing away your drone to 600ft or more. It's will be recorded on the logs. Now.... A system is in place where any drone going over 400ft gets flagged and you get a fine in the mail. Either pay, or fight it in court. This is a very possible scenario, thinking it's paranoia is not only foolish but also endangers this hobby for everyone. That's my personal feelings on it.

 

[Trollistika]

It would be so awesome to get a poll going. Can you do that here?

 

[Maviac]

Excellent reply! Fully respect your viewpoint. Let me emphasize my personal concern. What raises my eye brow more than anything is the flight logs being available for U.S entities to go after drone pilots who may or may not have broken FAA rules either knowingly or by honest miscalculation. Add this scenario...

You are flying your drone in a G air space. There's no private properties or structures to fear. No restriction at all. As you fly 400ft and a sudden gust of updraft wind comes along sailing away your drone to 600ft or more. It's will be recorded on the logs. Now.... A system is in place where any drone going over 400ft gets flagged and you get a fine in the mail. Either pay, or fight it in court. This is a very possible scenario, thinking it's paranoia is not only foolish but also endangers this hobby for everyone. That's my personal feelings on it.

Thank you. I respect and understand your point as well. But, even assuming DJI is freely sharing data with the US government (unlike Amazon, Google, Apple, etc.), there is an almost zero chance the government is going to ding someone for it. I don’t pretend to have any sort of inside knowledge but I have dealt with the FAA, DOJ, and other governmental entities (and have friends in both departments) and they have far bigger things to deal with. They’re extremely unlikely to to go after a small-time drone flyer like me for a minor violation based on approximate data from a foreign government (just filing or responding to motions on the evidentiary issues involved in such a thing would be a massive government undertaking). It would cost significant resources to do so, even apart from their lawyers’ time.

I really don’t mean to dismiss the concerns, but as a lawyer and private pilot who is pretty cautious about pretty much everything, this really doesn’t concern me at all. I’m more likely to win the lottery this afternoon than the government dinging me for inadvertently hitting 410 feet.

The bigger concern is a foreign government getting a mass of flight data. But mine, at least, isn’t going to be very significant.

 

[Trollistika]

Thank you. I respect and understand your point as well. But, even assuming DJI is freely sharing data with the US government (unlike Amazon, Google, Apple, etc.), there is an almost zero chance the government is going to ding someone for it. I don’t pretend to have any sort of inside knowledge but I have dealt with the FAA, DOJ, and other governmental entities (and have friends in both departments) and they have far bigger things to deal with. They’re extremely unlikely to to go after a small-time drone flyer like me for a minor violation based on approximate data from a foreign government (just filing or responding to motions on the evidentiary issues involved in such a thing would be a massive government undertaking). It would cost significant resources to do so, even apart from their lawyers’ time.

I really don’t mean to dismiss the concerns, but as a lawyer and private pilot who is pretty cautious about pretty much everything, this really doesn’t concern me at all. I’m more likely to win the lottery this afternoon than the government dinging me for inadvertently hitting 410 feet.

The bigger concern is a foreign government getting a mass of flight data. But mine, at least, isn’t going to be very significant.

Good post! I agree to some extent. Seems like everyone including their grandma is getting a drone now. As of Jan. last year, drones ownership hit 1 million. When you are reaching those numbers....... Government eyes begin to turn. Hopefully it cools off and the regulations remain fair for hobbyist or commercial users. Also, keep in mind that it can take 1 idiot with 1 drone to ruin everything! Over night we can have severely crippling regulations due to someome flying a drone to a plane or even using a drone to stage a terrorist attack.

 

[Maviac]

Excellent reply! Fully respect your viewpoint. Let me emphasize my personal concern. What raises my eye brow more than anything is the flight logs being available for U.S entities to go after drone pilots who may or may not have broken FAA rules either knowingly or by honest miscalculation. Add this scenario...

You are flying your drone in a G air space. There's no private properties or structures to fear. No restriction at all. As you fly 400ft and a sudden gust of updraft wind comes along sailing away your drone to 600ft or more. It's will be recorded on the logs. Now.... A system is in place where any drone going over 400ft gets flagged and you get a fine in the mail. Either pay, or fight it in court. This is a very possible scenario, thinking it's paranoia is not only foolish but also endangers this hobby for everyone. That's my personal feelings on it.

Actually, two more points. First, if you're in G, and flying recreationally, this should not trigger anything since there's no hard limit right now (no government lawyer (and I was one long ago) is ever going to argue private "guidelines" are law in prosecuting a case). I almost always adhere to the guidelines when flying recreationally but on a handful of occasions have gone higher over the middle of my own farmland miles from anyone else (after confirming there were no Victor airways, VR or IR routes, or other paths likely to ever be crossed by aircraft, and I haven't lost any sleep over it). Second, the FAA isn't going to cite you and give you a fine. There's no system in place for this sort of thing. They can conduct an investigation, usually after receiving a complaint, and THEN fine you after they spend a lot of money on the whole thing, but they're not like local police with the power to easily issue a citation. Could they change their policy tomorrow? I suppose, but again, it's extremely unlikely, and the evidentiary issues of prosecuting someone based on data from a foreign government are far more complex than the government is going to bother with for a minor regulatory violation.

Again, I understand the concern. But as a practical matter, it's overblown.

 

[Trollistika]

Actually, two more points. First, if you're in G, and flying recreationally, this should not trigger anything since there's no hard limit right now (no government lawyer (and I was one long ago) is ever going to argue private "guidelines" are law in prosecuting a case). I almost always adhere to the guidelines when flying recreationally but on a handful of occasions have gone higher over the middle of my own farmland miles from anyone else (after confirming there were no Victor airways, VR or IR routes, or other paths likely to ever be crossed by aircraft, and I haven't lost any sleep over it). Second, the FAA isn't going to cite you and give you a fine. There's no system in place for this sort of thing. They can conduct an investigation, usually after receiving a complaint, and THEN fine you after they spend a lot of money on the whole thing, but they're not like local police with the power to easily issue a citation. Could they change their policy tomorrow? I suppose, but again, it's extremely unlikely, and the evidentiary issues of prosecuting someone based on data from a foreign government are far more complex than the government is going to bother with for a minor regulatory violation.

Again, I understand the concern. But as a practical matter, it's overblown.

Nice! You nailed it well?. You also answered another question about the 400ft rule. But to clarify, if one is part 107 and just goes out to fly for fun in the middle of nowhere, can they go above 400ft? Or having a Part 107 eliminates that privilege? And thank you for posting such well written info! It's a relief from what I have gotten since yesterday from other members. Seems like some people get offended easily over some privacy concerns some have. Thanks again.

 

[Maviac]

Nice! You nailed it well?. You also answered another question about the 400ft rule. But to clarify, if one is part 107 and just goes out to fly for fun in the middle of nowhere, can they go above 400ft? Or having a Part 107 eliminates that privilege?

Yes, a certificated pilot can fly recreationally if they want to, free from the limited restrictions of 107 (although 107 certification generally gives me more freedom to fly, particularly anywhere near airports, there are a few situations where I can fly recreationally and not under 107 - over 400 feet being one of them).

 

[Trollistika]

Yes, a certificated pilot can fly recreationally if they want to, free from the limited restrictions of 107 (although a 107 generally gives me more freedom to fly, particularly anywhere near airports, there are a few situations where I can fly recreationally and not under 107 - over 400 feet being one of them).

That's good news. Made my day!

 

[Inspirephil]

Right - which government might be abusing which power, in this particular case?

Probably both! That’s the way of the world nowadays.
And as Meta4 states earlier it’s up to you if you want to permit DJI to download your flight records. Simply don’t allow them to by not updating your flight records. And hit ignore when they ask you to.

 

[Drbobk]

If you were flying at 400 feet and a wind gust blew you to 600 as you say, your flight logs would be your friend. They would show no throttle increase and it would be obvious that you did not command the drone to climb.

I can’t believe that I’ve read this entire crazy thread to here, but now I’m out! I come here to learn about drones, not misplaced paranoia.

 

[skiptv]

If you wanted up to date real time data on another country's locations and the corresponding GPS coordinates, what better way than to sell a product that the general public would take up and do all the leg work for you and then upload that information to your servers. Let the customers do the spying for you.
Of course the Chinese government would never have any interest in this information.....

...... Really?! China doesn’t need your drone or the 100,000 users who bought them when they can just access the 300 million Americans on Facebook.

 

[skiptv]

Well.... our own military [USA] advice to ban these drones about a year ago.

And that ban was lifted. It was part of this administrations plan to “punish” China along with tariffs