Flying over beach allowed?

[brett8883]

Whew what a thread to try and follow...

First of all, the OP stated "Recreational" in his question yet first thing we see are several links/quotes for Part 107 Regulations. That's like quoting the driving rules for someone in England who is driving in the USA. While there might be some "similarity" you have to use the rules for the situation and ONLY those rules.

As a Recreational Operator the FAA gives a LOT of leeway... You either follow the FAA ~44809 rules (which do NOT forbid flights over people) or if you are following a CBO rule set you follow whatever it says. You can NOT mix and match to fit your own needs/wants. So as of right now, a Recreational Flyer can fly "Over People" as long as it's done in a safe manner. What does this mean? If there is an incident you were not in compliant and subject to the FAA's full power and attention.

Part 107 is another thing.... if you want to fly over people you must be flying FULLY under one of the noted Categories.... If any aspect of your flight does not FULLY meet that Category you can't fly "Over People". When it says Over People it means over even the smallest part of a person.

Of course it's VERY difficult to fly in any public setting and NEVER fly over a single person but if you're serious about LEGAL flying you can do it you just can't fly anywhere and everywhere you want. Sometimes we stay grounded because it just can't be done. Sometimes we take the risk anyway and hope for the best. Once again it comes down to if there is an incident and someone is struck you were NOT in compliance with Part 107.

I hope this helps as it was a quick reply without spending too much time going too deep into the Abyss.

Thank you very helpful.

 

[BigAl07]

Thank you very helpful.

keep in mind that's merely "Allen's interpretation" and is not Legal Advice . . . .

 

[brett8883]

As a Recreational Operator the FAA gives a LOT of leeway... You either follow the FAA ~44809 rules (which do NOT forbid flights over people) or if you are following a CBO rule set you follow whatever it says. You can NOT mix and match to fit your own needs/wants.

Ok but doesn’t 44809 say you have to follow a CBO? So it’s not either or but in addition to right? I understand there are no recognized CBOs at this moment but once they are recognized won’t you have to follow 44809 AND CBO rules?

 

[brett8883]

Continued from above…

I imagine the FAA is going to require some rules pertaining to flying over people for a CBO to be approved which is why I didn’t want to tell the OP that it was for sure ok since that could change tomorrow.

 

[jimAIR2]

Many thanks to everyone for your thoughtful replies. My CBO guidelines do not mention a rule about flying over people, and it was incidental in this case while flying from point A to point B, so I believe it would be OK to publish this video on my YouTube channel. One thing I'll avoid in the future is flying with the gimbal pointed down when it's likely there could be people in my flight path below. Better to pull the gimbal up enough to see people ahead and avoid crossing directly overhead. Thank you all again!

 

[mobilehomer]

Many thanks to everyone for your thoughtful replies. My CBO guidelines do not mention a rule about flying over people, and it was incidental in this case while flying from point A to point B, so I believe it would be OK to publish this video on my YouTube channel. One thing I'll avoid in the future is flying with the gimbal pointed down when it's likely there could be people in my flight path below. Better to pull the gimbal up enough to see people ahead and avoid crossing directly overhead. Thank you all again!

Fly with it down, but don't record til you get past the people.

 

[Mantrain]

Whew what a thread to try and follow...

First of all, the OP stated "Recreational" in his question yet first thing we see are several links/quotes for Part 107 Regulations. That's like quoting the driving rules for someone in England who is driving in the USA. While there might be some "similarity" you have to use the rules for the situation and ONLY those rules.

As a Recreational Operator the FAA gives a LOT of leeway... You either follow the FAA ~44809 rules (which do NOT forbid flights over people) or if you are following a CBO rule set you follow whatever it says. You can NOT mix and match to fit your own needs/wants. So as of right now, a Recreational Flyer can fly "Over People" as long as it's done in a safe manner. What does this mean? If there is an incident you were not in compliant and subject to the FAA's full power and attention.

Part 107 is another thing.... if you want to fly over people you must be flying FULLY under one of the noted Categories.... If any aspect of your flight does not FULLY meet that Category you can't fly "Over People". When it says Over People it means over even the smallest part of a person.

Of course it's VERY difficult to fly in any public setting and NEVER fly over a single person but if you're serious about LEGAL flying you can do it you just can't fly anywhere and everywhere you want. Sometimes we stay grounded because it just can't be done. Sometimes we take the risk anyway and hope for the best. Once again it comes down to if there is an incident and someone is struck you were NOT in compliance with Part 107.

I hope this helps as it was a quick reply without spending too much time going too deep into the Abyss.

My guess is the issues are a distinction of civil liability. For example, flying over sports stadiums. That is prohibited in either recreational or per 107, no? But if there is no property or personal damage probably not much will happen. If there is, the there is civil liability. Anyways would not do a quick fly over because I dread the attention. but maybe a fly over is legal??? There is a big difference between hovering and flying over. I am guessing if it is a Superbowl game, that would be a problem. But who would have jurisdiction for someone flying over the Superbowl game or any televised sports game? The FAA always has jurisdiction but there are all these issues of rights to view sporting events also. There is the safety issue on the one hand, and the infringement to a private event on the other.

HMM, what if I fly my drone near the stadium and use my Mavic 3 Explorer mode at 8 x zoom???

I imagine some of these issues are not vetted yet??

Anyways, if anyone of us could get within less than a mile of the Superbowl, any of us could fly over. And what would be the repercussions? If we hurt someone, chances are the repercussion are firstly going to be civil in nature in what are known at Torts against persons (if someone is hurt) or Tort against property, if some property is damaged. Somehow given the image of negligence involved in flying near a large event the susceptibility towards criminal negligence would be possible as well.
But would there be any criminal liability for flying over the Super Bowl if no one got hurt and barely anyone even noticed it? Because of the amount of attention it might garner, I think it poses an interesting question. Obviously one cannot hover over persons. You can not hover near homes for the purposes of looking in and observing people in their own homes. But one can fly over for incidental /recreational purposes. But the Superbowl?

a beach? i was flying over beach today in La Jolla Shores. No one cared. I did not hover over anyone. I flew over the beach, over beachcombers, and above but not directly over surfers. No one minded and I presume unless my drone loses control and hits someone it will not be a problem. But when that happens, it will be an exceptionally bad day.

BTW I know almost nothing in compare to the poster I responded to so maybe he or others can clarify these issues

 

[brett8883]

My guess is the issues are a distinction of civil liability. For example, flying over sports stadiums. That is prohibited in either recreational or per 107, no? But if there is no property or personal damage probably not much will happen. If there is, the there is civil liability. Anyways would not do a quick fly over because I dread the attention. but maybe a fly over is legal??? There is a big difference between hovering and flying over. I am guessing if it is a Superbowl game, that would be a problem. But who would have jurisdiction for someone flying over the Superbowl game or any televised sports game? The FAA always has jurisdiction but there are all these issues of rights to view sporting events also. There is the safety issue on the one hand, and the infringement to a private event on the other.

HMM, what if I fly my drone near the stadium and use my Mavic 3 Explorer mode at 8 x zoom???

I imagine some of these issues are not vetted yet??

Anyways, if anyone of us could get within less than a mile of the Superbowl, any of us could fly over. And what would be the repercussions? If we hurt someone, chances are the repercussion are firstly going to be civil in nature in what are known at Torts against persons (if someone is hurt) or Tort against property, if some property is damaged. Somehow given the image of negligence involved in flying near a large event the susceptibility towards criminal negligence would be possible as well.
But would there be any criminal liability for flying over the Super Bowl if no one got hurt and barely anyone even noticed it? Because of the amount of attention it might garner, I think it poses an interesting question. Obviously one cannot hover over persons. You can not hover near homes for the purposes of looking in and observing people in their own homes. But one can fly over for incidental /recreational purposes. But the Superbowl?

a beach? i was flying over beach today in La Jolla Shores. No one cared. I did not hover over anyone. I flew over the beach, over beachcombers, and above but not directly over surfers. No one minded and I presume unless my drone loses control and hits someone it will not be a problem. But when that happens, it will be an exceptionally bad day.

BTW I know almost nothing in compare to the poster I responded to so maybe he or others can clarify these issues

Major outdoor sporting events like NFL, MLB, NCAA, etc have large TFRs(temporary flight restrictions) around them, usually 3 nautical miles but the Super Bowl TFR will be even larger. Not only are drones not allowed but manned aircraft aren’t either. They take TFRs seriously, they will come after you for that, and you can face prison time. Especially with the Super Bowl it’s a National security issue.

So it’s not so much about having anything to do with a stadium or even the flying over people part. It’s busting the TFR which will get you into trouble.

 

[kjonyou]

I am new to this but I seem to recall a video from the FAA drone guy saying dont think of recreational and Part 107 as two different things. The regulations for 107 are meant for ALL flyers with a SMALL carve out for recreational flyers if they meet the list of requirements. But in essence, everything will look back to the 107 as the bible of what's legal.

 

[kjonyou]

Also that guy from the FAA specifically addressed flying over people. Common sense, not black and white. So what he said was crossing over from point A to B is ok, but fallowing, hovering, circling, going back and forth is what they are trying to say is not permitted.

The same applies for moving cars. You cross over a road or freeway but you cant fallow directly the road with moving cars on it like you are a vehicle 100 foot above it. In spite of what you have seen in a lot of drone videos. A few feet off to the side is probably legal though. Again common sense, if the drone fails and falls from the sky, it's not going to hit someone's windshield.

 

[Squidinc]

You can fly over people and traffic when going from point A to Point B. The rule just says you are not supposed to hover or repeatedly fly back and forth over them. It's OK to traverse across a group of people. Just don't stop, make circles, or repeated flybies over them.

At what legal altitude? In Australia it 30mtrs.

 

[Pyrate]

That why it is a murky gray area!

 

[mobilehomer]

The Super Bowl tfr is 30 miles with 8000' ceiling. NORMAL sporting event over 30,000 fans tfr is 3 nmr from structure.

 

[BigAl07]

I am new to this but I seem to recall a video from the FAA drone guy saying dont think of recreational and Part 107 as two different things. The regulations for 107 are meant for ALL flyers with a SMALL carve out for recreational flyers if they meet the list of requirements. But in essence, everything will look back to the 107 as the bible of what's legal.

That is NOT correct. You're mixing things and unless you can CITE it in legal writings you need to stop spreading half truths.

Part 107 (Civil Operations) is the DEFAULT for all non Govt/Public Safety/Military UAS operations unless you can operate inside of the Recreational Exception. If your flight is purely Recreational and it fits clearly within the confines of ~44809 you operate under the guidelines within ~44809. While it's true ~44809 is a Carve Out (better known as protective bubble) from Part 107, this does not mean that Recreational Operators don't have a different set of rules they fly by.

The "confusion" is this... if any portion of your flight does not fit completely inside of the "Protective Bubble" of ~44809 you are, by default liable for Part 107. Once again, ~44809 does have a different set of rules to fly by and they are not mirrors of Part 107.

Part 107 (Short Version)

Federal Register :: Request Access

~44809

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title49-section44809&num=0&edition=prelim

Everything doesn't "Look back" to Part 107.... They are indeed different rules and should be stated as such. These things are CODIFIED and fairly easy to look up and differentiate between them if you take the time and efforts.

 

[Lets Fly]

And BigA107 post number 20 says it all. Use common sense.

 

[Niku]

I'm a fairly new recreational pilot flying a Mavic Air 2. I recently shot a video moving over a beach with scattered people below. It does not pause and hover there, it just flies over the beach at about 100' and out over the water. I've seen quite a few similar videos posted on youtube, but I'm hesitant to upload it because I'm unsure of the rule about flying over people. Any advice?

In Europe, we have this rule: Remember: even though you get to fly close to people, you are never allowed to fly over the crowds!

 

[Mantrain]

The Super Bowl tfr is 30 miles with 8000' ceiling. NORMAL sporting event over 30,000 fans tfr is 3 nmr from structure.

Excuse me, 30 miles???? So if there was a Superbowl in San Diego ( I think the last one here was 2002) we essentially cannot fly our drones in San Diego at all that day? Am I understanding that correct?

Makes no sense because a suburb like where I live is 12 miles and really a world away in drone terms.

 

[brett8883]

Excuse me, 30 miles???? So if there was a Superbowl in San Diego ( I think the last one here was 2002) we essentially cannot fly our drones in San Diego at all that day? Am I understanding that correct?

Makes no sense because a suburb like where I live is 12 miles and really a world away in drone terms.

Like I said it’s for manned aircraft too. The Super Bowl would be an incising target for a terrorist attack, in those terms it makes more sense.

 

[Mantrain]

Like I said it’s for manned aircraft too. The Super Bowl would be an incising target for a terrorist attack, in those terms it makes more sense.

well I suppose that makes more sense but aren't there major airports that are near Superbowl venues? They don't shut down airports I am sure.

We lost the Chargers but their stadium was only 5 or 6 miles away from Lindbergh Field

 

[mobilehomer]

Excuse me, 30 miles???? So if there was a Superbowl in San Diego ( I think the last one here was 2002) we essentially cannot fly our drones in San Diego at all that day? Am I understanding that correct?

Makes no sense because a suburb like where I live is 12 miles and really a world away in drone terms.

Straight from the FAA. Here is the official -