DJI Mavic, Air and Mini Drones
Friendly, Helpful & Knowledgeable Community
Join Us Now

HDR video - what does it mean to you?

justinhow

New Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
1
Reactions
2
Location
Scotland
I am beginning to hate the term HDR as it means quite different things in different situations. HDR in TV/films/video/bluray etc normally means using 10 or 12 bits for luminance (e.g. to reduce the visible steps that can sometimes be seen on dark scenes), and also a wide colour gamut (Rec. 2020) allowing it to depict colours not normally possible on the more restrictive Rec. 709. This is a fundemental change that can not be achieved via exposure, editing etc.
Neither of these apply to HDR video on DJI drones which as far as I can see essentially means (and by all means correct me) trying to bring up the near black shade and to reduce the overblown highlights (and possibly increasing saturation/vibrancy). So DJI are taking the meaning from what HDR means in photos, not from how HDR is now used in films/TV/blu-ray etc.
I am pretty sure quite a lot of customers have no idea of these important differences.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
probably correct but tbh the technicalities of it are probably not an issue to a lot of us. I think the HDR makes it look better without worrying too much about the technical aspects of it.

If I was a 'proper' videographer then i guess i would probably be doing everything in manual mode anyway so it'd be of little use to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: itsneedtokno
I am beginning to hate the term HDR as it means quite different things in different situations. HDR in TV/films/video/bluray etc normally means using 10 or 12 bits for luminance (e.g. to reduce the visible steps that can sometimes be seen on dark scenes), and also a wide colour gamut (Rec. 2020) allowing it to depict colours not normally possible on the more restrictive Rec. 709. This is a fundemental change that can not be achieved via exposure, editing etc.
Neither of these apply to HDR video on DJI drones which as far as I can see essentially means (and by all means correct me) trying to bring up the near black shade and to reduce the overblown highlights (and possibly increasing saturation/vibrancy). So DJI are taking the meaning from what HDR means in photos, not from how HDR is now used in films/TV/blu-ray etc.
I am pretty sure quite a lot of customers have no idea of these important differences.

We have to start with the definition of dynamic range which is a tricky subject. Dynamic range generally refers to both the contrast ratio, difference between the darkest tones and brightest tones in an image (luminance) and also the number of levels or “stops” between black and white.

Electronic screens are interesting in this regard because they use light producing pixels to represent scenes that are actually the result of light that was reflected from the scene they are representing. For example the contrast ratio of a printed image can at maximum be the difference from a black pigment that reflects no light to the amount of light the blank white paper can reflect. However, a screen is a light producing medium so the possible contrast ratio is almost infinite ranging from the same black pigment that reflects no light all the way up to the maximum number of photons that could occupy the space of a single pixel (many times brighter than the sun.)

HDR video standards such as HLG, HDR10, Dolby Vision etc. use the contrast ratio to claim “HDR“ by using screens that produce brighter and darker tones (luminance) than a traditional screen. Of note however is that the number of levels (stops) between the brightest and darkest parts of the screen remain relatively unchanged. This is because the tones it produces above 50% brightness (luminance) is on a logarithmic scale.
F79CC1EA-154F-40FA-9B97-14AAADF2FBF6.png

There are a issue in the digital video industry right now. One is that there is no standardized meaning to HDR and there are competing standards that aren’t compatible with each other and not all screens are compatible with each of the standards. Reminds me of the Blu-ray vs HD DVD. Hopefully one will win out so we can all use the same standard. Next the maximum brightness a TV can produce even when complying with one of the standards can vary wildly so “HDR” on one screen will look totally different on another screen maybe even worse than SDR. Dolby Vision tries to address this by allowing colorists to encode multiple different color grades corresponding to different maximum brightness levels on different screens into the same video which will play back on with the color grade meant or each tv based on its maximum brightness. However this means to use Dolby Vision you have to color grade and color correct multiple times for the same video which is a nightmare. Last and not least is that not everybody has HDR screens so the media is going to look wildly different depending on the screen the audience is watching on.

DJI’s use of “HDR” is closer to the definition used for in digital photography which is to use multiple exposures of the same image and combine them to fit the dynamic range of the image into the SDR gamut increasing the number of levels (stops) between the brightest part of the image and the darkest part of image far beyond what would be possible with a single exposure. The contrast ratio remains the same but this means that no special hardware is required and it will look the same on all screens. This is enabled by DJI’s inclusion of the quad bayer sensor on the MA2 which can divide up the sensor and take different exposures simultaneously on the same sensor. If this is better or worse in theory than than using contrast ratio like the HDR video standards is largely a matter of opinion and in practice it is highly dependent on the screen you are watching on and how the media is color graded. For the vast majority of screens currently in use the way DJI is doing it is likely going to look superior.

It will be interesting to see how HDR video moves forward because I imagine that the popular HDR video standards were created with the assumption it wasn’t possible to get multiple exposures in video. As we can see that is no longer the case. Will HDR TVs go the way of the 3D tv and die or will the next developments be toward combining the benefits of multiple exposures AND increased contrast ratio.

We haven’t even gotten into color yet but I’ve taken way too much time on this
 
Last edited:
We have to start with the definition of dynamic range which is a tricky subject. Dynamic range generally refers to both the contrast ratio, difference between the darkest tones and brightest tones in an image (luminance) and also the number of levels or “stops” between black and white.

Electronic screens are interesting in this regard because they use light producing pixels to represent scenes that are actually the result of light that was reflected from the scene they are representing. For example the contrast ratio of a printed image can at maximum be the difference from a black pigment that reflects no light to the amount of light the blank white paper can reflect. However, a screen is a light producing medium so the possible contrast ratio is almost infinite ranging from the same black pigment that reflects no light all the way up to the maximum number of photons that could occupy the space of a single pixel (many times brighter than the sun.)

HDR video standards such as HLG, HDR10, Dolby Vision etc. use the contrast ratio to claim “HDR“ by using screens that produce brighter and darker tones (luminance) than a traditional screen. Of note however is that the number of levels (stops) between the brightest and darkest parts of the screen remain relatively unchanged. This is because the tones it produces above 50% brightness (luminance) is on a logarithmic scale.
View attachment 106150

There are a issue in the digital video industry right now. One is that there is no standardized meaning to HDR and there are competing standards that aren’t compatible with each other and not all screens are compatible with each of the standards. Reminds me of the Blu-ray vs HD DVD. Hopefully one will win out so we can all use the same standard. Next the maximum brightness a TV can produce even when complying with one of the standards can vary wildly so “HDR” on one screen will look totally different on another screen maybe even worse than SDR. Dolby Vision tries to address this by allowing colorists to encode multiple different color grades corresponding to different maximum brightness levels on different screens into the same video which will play back on with the color grade meant or each tv based on its maximum brightness. However this means to use Dolby Vision you have to color grade and color correct multiple times for the same video which is a nightmare. Last and not least is that not everybody has HDR screens so the media is going to look wildly different depending on the screen the audience is watching on.

DJI’s use of “HDR” is closer to the definition used for in digital photography which is to use multiple exposures of the same image and combine them to fit the dynamic range of the image into the SDR gamut increasing the number of levels (stops) between the brightest part of the image and the darkest part of image far beyond what would be possible with a single exposure. The contrast ratio remains the same but this means that no special hardware is required and it will look the same on all screens. This is enabled by DJI’s inclusion of the quad bayer sensor on the MA2 which can divide up the sensor and take different exposures simultaneously on the same sensor. If this is better or worse in theory than than using contrast ratio like the HDR video standards is largely a matter of opinion and in practice it is highly dependent on the screen you are watching on and how the media is color graded. For the vast majority of screens currently in use the way DJI is doing it is likely going to look superior.

It will be interesting to see how HDR video moves forward because I imagine that the popular HDR video standards were created with the assumption it wasn’t possible to get multiple exposures in video. As we can see that is no longer the case. Will HDR TVs go the way of the 3D tv and die or will the next developments be toward combining the benefits of multiple exposures AND increased contrast ratio.

We haven’t even gotten into color yet but I’ve taken way too much time on this
Very informative, some bits I knew but I’ve also learnt quite a lot from this.
Thanks for posting.
 
I don't use HDR. It doesn't mean anything to me. You are right.. HDR is so open ended, especially on TVs and drones.

4K 30 or 60fps and edit footage in premiere pro, no fancy smancy HDR marketing crap for me
 
Although I consider myself quite proficient in photo editing, I am still amazed by the quality of HDR ( or night-mode ) photos out of high-end smartphones today. Unfortunately, I am yet to see the same quality in DJI's HDR photos. HDR itself is definitely no marketing crap, it's just that DJI hasn't done it well ( yet ).

For video, the sample HDR footages of MA2 I have seen on Youtube is better than what I have thought. It seems that the ability of the quad bayer sensors to take different exposures simultaneously can deliver visible results. If you shoot directly towards the sun, the circular outline of the sun can be clearly seen in the HDR footage but in the color-graded footage, the sun always shows up as an irregular patch of dead-white.

Technology is evolving rapidly and I prefer to keep an open mind.
 
Last edited:
I am beginning to hate the term HDR as it means quite different things in different situations ... <snip>

Yeah, I was expecting to read 10-bit in the file properties when I recorded in HDR. Was a bit disappointed, needless to say. But, it can come in handy in certain situations, regardless. But agree there is a wide interpretation of what HDR means.

A lot of things end up this way. Was in the holography field for a long time, and I KNOW "HOLOGRAM" was/is THE most abused term in the world, lol! High-Def was abused (and still is sometimes) for a long time. My favorite were the "High-Def" sunglasses!! ?
 
Lycus Tech Mavic Air 3 Case

DJI Drone Deals

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
131,273
Messages
1,561,510
Members
160,225
Latest member
sikiruikhun