Mavic Pro: why DJI doesn't fix this huge flickering/compression problem?

Lamplighter55 · Feb 11, 2018

Hi peeps, I'm looking at a slightly different but I think related issue with the Mavic Pro/Platinum codec H264 temporal compression regime. Basically I'm getting jerky cloudscapes when doing a slow fixed position pan (yaw). The high resolution detail conforms to the expected GOP issues covered extensively already on this thread. The settings I used for the original footage were 4K 24fps +1,0,0 D-log with Auto ISO. Here is a cropped section that I 'contrasted' to review the issue more clearly. I've posted this up on the DJI.forum but had no response other then one person who thought it might have been an optical illusion. See what you think, and if you too have noticed this artefact and have found a 'work-around' - much appreciate any feedback.

4K cropped section of footage:-
Dropbox - Mavic_Dlog_test_4Kcrop.mp4

Chizus21 · Feb 11, 2018

deadwing said:
Talking about others' videos, this was always one I particularly like as it's very simple and well made (although we don't know what sharpening settings were used but I assume 0 from what I see):

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After minute 1:19 you can see the full 4k, 2k and HD...and the 4k is clearly pulsating and flickering on the details (even more evident if watched in a small window!), while the 2k doesn't show this at all, and the HD (as we sadly know) is just crap

Another I always loved was this one:

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and again just see at the water and then overall image of the opening scene...in this one the flickering is even more evident in terms of shadows/lights (and how the details of waves 'flicker' as well as they move from one key frame to the other and are instead averaged in the middle 8 frames!). Here is more a shadows/light flicker because is not a well and uniformly lit scene as the previous video (that presented another challenge, the green foliage/trees).

I know this is an old post, but I'm just now reading it. It looks to me, that in all the 2k footage from the top video, the top half of the shop randomly blurs out. I find this happening with my 2k footage, as well. I'm not too keen on all of this, but this is definitely happening. Could you offer input on this?

Castyn · Feb 13, 2018

I officially have given up on the mavic pro producing video that isn't completely unusable to me. I have tried Davinci about 20 times on a few clips now, it makes no visible difference at all. I have tried on different terrains as well, every 8th frame just causes a jump and I can't get it fixed. I am tempted to just duct tape my cell phone to a balloon at this point.

Maybe I am just not using Davinci right, but even when I upped all the settings to 100+ in temporal NR I saw no difference in the video at all. I set these items per clip as shown below, then go to deliver and pick some settings but each clip looks exactly the same

sebastian.bilbao · Feb 13, 2018

Since the both last fw, and with GO 4.20, the flicker problem is fixed.
The requirements are:
1. The fastest u3 sd. You can buy the SanDisk extreme v30, is the best choice.
2. EV always 0
3. Dcinelike or none.
4. Nd8 or nd16 filter.
5. 4k 30 or 24 fps... 2.7k or 1080p doesn't work.
6. The most important.. SHARPNESS 0. let the ambarella A9SE75 chip work.
7. If you want to retouch, gc titan lut plus neat video or denoiser 3.

cranngel · Feb 13, 2018

Castyn ... not sure what setting you set to 100% .... and resolve does not completely remove it for me but try Luma=Chroma=30 and motion = 100 just to see if it helps any .. you should see some difference. There is motion "jump", brightness flicker, and what I call "mosquito" noise that all seem to come from the long GOP compression. The mosquito noise is very tiny noise like artifacts. Davinci only can help with the mosquito noise. I am really hoping for a new camera in Mavic II

Gastone360 · Feb 14, 2018

sebastian.bilbao said:
Since the both last fw, and with GO 4.20, the flicker problem is fixed.

Are you sure of this? Do you have some raw footage to prove that? I can't believe it and I use sharpness +1 and davinci resolve for ALL the clips to avoid the GOP flickering.
I don't use sharpness at ZERO from 2 months

Lamplighter55 · Feb 14, 2018

Humm I'll be doing some tests as soon as the weather is good enough. After a more thorough scrutiny of my footage, it would seem the 'jumping cloudscapes' follows a slow yaw/pan while recording. I'm thinking that there's something to do with low frequency buffering of areas of low contrast while setting a bit rate preference for areas of high detail and contrast. Given the now general acceptance that using a sharpness setting of '0' will mush-out these high frequency details when at low contrast, I'll stick to using a sharpness of +1, as my results so far are fine and preferable. reading through the spec sheet for the Ambarella A9SE75 it looks like the '3D noise reduction (Motion Compensated Temporal Filter, or MCTF)' is the culprit. Indeed they have implemented an 'optic-flow' technology - which is exactly what these dodgy/jerking cloudscapes look like they are being interpolated by.

sebastian.bilbao · Feb 14, 2018

Gastone360 said:
Are you sure of this? Do you have some raw footage to prove that? I can't believe it and I use sharpness +1 and davinci resolve for ALL the clips to avoid the GOP flickering.
I don't use sharpness at ZERO from 2 months

I used neat video only for 5 seconds. All the other part, only with gc titan lut.

sebastian.bilbao · Feb 14, 2018

Lamplighter55 said:
Humm I'll be doing some tests as soon as the weather is good enough. After a more thorough scrutiny of my footage, it would seem the 'jumping cloudscapes' follows a slow yaw/pan while recording. I'm thinking that there's something to do with low frequency buffering of areas of low contrast while setting a bit rate preference for areas of high detail and contrast. Given the now general acceptance that using a sharpness setting of '0' will mush-out these high frequency details when at low contrast, I'll stick to using a sharpness of +1, as my results so far are fine and preferable. reading through the spec sheet for the Ambarella A9SE75 it looks like the '3D noise reduction (Motion Compensated Temporal Filter, or MCTF)' is the culprit. Indeed they have implemented an 'optic-flow' technology - which is exactly what these dodgy/jerking cloudscapes look like they are being interpolated by.

Ambarella a9 is far better than the h12 of the mavic air. The a9 has dual core a9 arm processor, vs the h12 of mavic air with a single core a9. Both at 1000 mhz. The mavic problem with bitrate is only a software issue.
If ambarella enables x265, the 60mbps of mavic, are enough.

Castyn · Feb 14, 2018

sebastian.bilbao said:
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I used neat video only for 5 seconds. All the other part, only with gc titan lut.

FWIW I skimmed the footage and I see it GOP flicker pretty obviously in trees at 1:20 in the video, though obviously it reduced from what normally comes straight off the camera. Still working on this, I haven't given up hope yet. I'll try your settings when I get back home from overseas and post some footage. I'll also be testing the Mavic air later this week to see how it does comparatively.

Lamplighter55 · Feb 14, 2018

sebastian.bilbao said:
Ambarella a9 is far better than the h12 of the mavic air. The a9 has dual core a9 arm processor, vs the h12 of mavic air with a single core a9. Both at 1000 mhz. The mavic problem with bitrate is only a software issue.
If ambarella enables x265, the 60mbps of mavic, are enough.

Indeed in terms of the specs we should not be getting these artefacts on spatially low frequency parts of the image. Even when the chip is streaming out the 720p footage for the RC/phone view. So it would seem a not so good software implementation - hobbling the camera's fully capabilities.

sebastian.bilbao · Feb 14, 2018

Castyn said:
FWIW I skimmed the footage and I see it GOP flicker pretty obviously in trees at 1:20 in the video, though obviously it reduced from what normally comes straight off the camera. Still working on this, I haven't given up hope yet. I'll try your settings when I get back home from overseas and post some footage. I'll also be testing the Mavic air later this week to see how it does comparatively.

That is the part where I had to use neat video, because the ev was - 1.

Oglo · Feb 14, 2018

Long and well contributed to topic from a lot of wonderful international members.

Love reading everyone's take on how to fix this annoying defect, but basically as I postulated at the beginning of the posts, it's a hardware/software limitation of the video processing chip. This in my mind isn't a fault, just an annoying

limitation we have to accept for a product at this price/point.
Most editing that we all do usually involves some form of having to do a final recompress of the footage, which only adds to and compounds this artifact, plus as most people are making a Youtube/Vimeo etc end product, this adds another recompress (artifact enhancing) stage. This could mean 3x compression processes added to the original "off-sensor" image.
We have what we have....... hope really is that DJI read our posts and respond with a Mavic 2 with a good video processing chip - without moving us into the Phantom/Inspire price bracket. The Mavic Air, whilst brilliant, doesn't really address our issue satisfactorily.
This subject topic has been a pleasure to follow, reading the various opinions and subjective conclusions, sometime's at odds, but always expressed with good nature and sincerety (unlike many of the other topics on this forum).

Cheers to all around our connected world.What a fascinating age we live in.

Castyn · Feb 15, 2018

Yeah, I look forward to a mavic pro body with a phantom 4 pro camera and processing system. That would be the perfect mix for me.

Kilrah · Feb 15, 2018

sebastian.bilbao said:
Ambarella a9 is far better than the h12 of the mavic air.

The Mavic Air does not use an Ambarella chip.

sebastian.bilbao said:
The mavic problem with bitrate is only a software issue. If ambarella enables x265, the 60mbps of mavic, are enough.

The "Mavic problem with bitrate" is not even a bitrate problem, just artifacts from poor processing.

Gastone360 · Feb 16, 2018

yes, on youtube you can't see real issues in the footage because is compressed for the second-third time....

I found the peace on mind with Davinci Resolve and the temporal denoise inside...with every clip and just a few click and the flickering is almost impercettible

Lamplighter55 · Feb 16, 2018

Today having now done my first test - I've found a better setup, that resolves my main issue with the jerky/jumping clouds. I filmed at UHD rather than full 4K and that gives the image engine, space either side of the full 4K to refine its predictive image buffering - at least that's what I think is going on! The hint that I may be correct is that the same 'stepping' effect appeared in some low contrast grass patches that were entering the frame from the bottom as I tilted down the gimbal - basically there is no frame top and bottom crop factor at UHD resolution. I also ran 25fps and 1/50 shutter - which is a better match to the '180 rule' than the near 24fps at full 4K. The original footage still has the 'mosquito' GOP noise, but I'm using Neat Noise Reduction with a ISO specific profile and that almost get rid of it completely - plus general ISO noise too. I'll be doing more tests to see if I can further refine toward my 'best setup' for this little beastie.

Buzzik · Feb 22, 2018

Hello everyone,

Any more to this issue? I just got my Platinum edition and there is still flickering issue at 4k/2.7k and +1 sharpness. I was wondering if anyone can point out a good step by step tutorial how to use Davinci Resolve to filter out that flickering(Gastone360 mentioned) and render w/o quality loss to do a post in Adobe Premier

DomoDan · Feb 22, 2018

I can’t even find the **** video settings after the last firmware update...

Lamplighter55 · Feb 23, 2018

Buzzik said:
Hello everyone,

Any more to this issue? I just got my Platinum edition and there is still flickering issue at 4k/2.7k and +1 sharpness. I was wondering if anyone can point out a good step by step tutorial how to use Davinci Resolve to filter out that flickering(Gastone360 mentioned) and render w/o quality loss to do a post in Adobe Premier

Only with the paid-for version of DaVinci Resolve can you use the temporal and spacial noise filter(s). I bit the bullet and bought a Neat Video license and with a pre-set noise profile from Film-Poets get good results within acceptable parameters of the originally shot material. In other words there's a lower limit for filming low contrast monochromatic surfaces under low light - where the 8 frame GOP issue becomes too obvious to be filtered out.