Octacopters = no more Kobe-style helicopter crashes ??

[Mavic-Master88]

Does anyone else think that a future where electric drone aircraft will totally eliminate helicopter crashes like that kind that killed Kobe Bryant ??

We don't have the exact cause of the crash from the NTSB, but it appears there was a major engine malfunction that caused Kobe's heli to descend at rapid speed and crash into the Hollywood Hills.

From what I understand, an octacopter can lose one or two props and keep on flying normally, right? So why not phase out single-rotor helicopters in favor of octacopters to transport people? This would seem to reduce possible crash scenarios to almost zero, correct? Common sense says that a single-engine, single-rotor aircraft will have more causes of catastrophic failure than an airicraft with EIGHT separate motors and rotor blades. Redundancy saves lives.

 

[Skywatcher2001]

I like the idea but the power consumption (IMO) would be enormous. Different from a jet engine (sufficient thrust plus air minus weight plus lift equals flight). Not to mention the size the aircraft would need to be in relation to carrying a sizable payload of people. I did a quick search for some data and I found nothing (other than drones). Can you point me to some literature to read or are we just 'generally' discussing the possibility?

If so (generally speaking), I like the concept. Before the Mavic Pro was released I was COMPLETELY sold on Yuneec's Typhoon H with the 6 rotors. I almost pulled the trigger. I definitely would love to see (and read) up on the octocopter concept, power plants, avionics and stability. Very interesting . . .

 

[Maviac]

We don't have the exact cause of the crash from the NTSB, but it appears there was a major engine malfunction that caused Kobe's heli to descend at rapid speed and crash into the Hollywood Hills.

That is completely false. We don’t know, but the evidence suggests that the pilot either flew full speed into the hill or became disoriented and lost control. The chances of a mechanical failure causing this (it was a twin turbine) are fairly astronomical.

 

[The Editor]

Does anyone else think that a future where electric drone aircraft will totally eliminate helicopter crashes like that kind that killed Kobe Bryant ??

We don't have the exact cause of the crash from the NTSB, but it appears there was a major engine malfunction that caused Kobe's heli to descend at rapid speed and crash into the Hollywood Hills.

From what I understand, an octacopter can lose one or two props and keep on flying normally, right? So why not phase out single-rotor helicopters in favor of octacopters to transport people? This would seem to reduce possible crash scenarios to almost zero, correct? Common sense says that a single-engine, single-rotor aircraft will have more causes of catastrophic failure than an airicraft with EIGHT separate motors and rotor blades. Redundancy saves lives.

One word will sum it up - Pinto.

Cost benefit analysis - number of fatalities v cost

The world hasn’t changed unfortunately.

 

[old man mavic]

anything that flies ,has the ability to fall to earth, and because of the very large rotor that spins above a heli to keep it in the air, it is not at this time possible to fit some sort of emergency parachute system to slow its descent, the only way to avoid an accident is autorotation but that requires training and height to accomplish,the complexity of using a multi rotor system with the current battery and motor tech would not make such a craft financially viable

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I like the idea but the power consumption (IMO) would be enormous.

Has a multi rotor (say 6) ever been made with normal ICEs though ?
I expect quite likely some forms of UAVs have been by enthusiasts.
Maybe that is more viable at this early stage of electric motor and battery efficiency ?

anything that flies ,has the ability to fall to earth,

Anything that flies and has a human in control is even more prone to this.
Sadly, accidents in every way of our lives will always happen when humans are involved.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

My understanding is this model of helicopter has redundant systems including two engines (don't know about he capability of flying with one engine). Based on everything I've read I think it's going to come down to VFR flight into IFR conditions, loss of control resulting in flying into terrain.

The pilot had made the flight to the pick up point which may have made him confident he could complete the last leg of the flight. If you've flown manned aircraft you know the feeling of "get home itis". Who knows what pressures he was feeling to complete the flight. You make a go decision and get yourself boxed in. It had to be terrible for the pilot the moment he realized the situation was getting out of control and terrifying for the passengers.

 

[BigAl07]

My understanding is this model of helicopter has redundant systems including two engines (don't know about he capability of flying with one engine). Based on everything I've read I think it's going to come down to VFR flight into IFR conditions, loss of control resulting in flying into terrain.

The pilot had made the flight to the pick up point which may have made him confident he could complete the last leg of the flight. If you've flown manned aircraft you know the feeling of "get home itis". Who knows what pressures he was feeling to complete the flight. You make a go decision and get yourself boxed in. It had to be terrible for the pilot the moment he realized the situation was getting out of control and terrifying for the passengers.

BINGO!!

I just gotta get over that hill.. around that corner... under that cloud... and we'll be HOME free.... it's a deadly thought process.....

 

[Deleted member 93449]

I was on a flight returning from CA leaving on the last leg out of Hobby in TX with my wife and two of my kids. The plane takes off, starts to climb and then levels of at about 5,000 feet and stays there for a few minutes. I know somethings not right which was confirmed a moment later with the flight attendants looking very series tell us we are returning to the airport and a few moments later tell us to assume the crash positions. My eight year old son seating in another row with his sister unbuckles his seat belt and runs to sit in the seat next to me. As we descend I see the emergency vehicles lined up next to the runway...

It turned out to be a faulty landing gear indicator. The plane landed with no issue. We were towed from the runway as a precaution and given the option to stay overnight or leave on the next available flight. We choose to leave rather than spend the night thinking about "what if".

I got a little taste of what the parents who were on that helicopter with their children might have been feeling...absolutely horrible and helpless.

 

[Maviac]

I got a little taste of what the parents who were on that helicopter with their children might have been feeling...absolutely horrible and helpless.

Fortunately, they probably didn’t know (except for maybe the pilot). But I hear what you’re saying. Having had an engine out in a single-engine airplane (as PIC) and a couple other emergency situations where I wasn’t sure I’d make it out, there is a strangely indescribable feeling of terror (and weirdly, calmness) that comes over you when you realize this might be “it.”

 

[Mavic-Master88]

That is completely false. We don’t know, but the evidence suggests that the pilot either flew full speed into the hill or became disoriented and lost control. The chances of a mechanical failure causing this (it was a twin turbine) are fairly astronomical.

No you couldn't be more wrong --- the NTSB has already stated the aircraft was descending at a rate of 2000 feet per minute, and that is consistent with a catastrophic engine failure --- NOT a disoriented pilot. The pilot apparently ascended to 2500 feet to clear the mountain range since he knew he didnt have terrain-warning radar equipment to guide him through the heavy fog. There are also eyewitnesses who said they heard "sputtering" noises before the crash, which is consistent with catastrophic engine failure or a stall.

 

[Mavic-Master88]

there is a strangely indescribable feeling of terror (and weirdly, calmness) that comes over you when you realize this might be “it.”

I get that "pucker" moment when flying my P3P or Mavic --- knowing it might be the last time I see the bird --- can't imagine what this feels like when you're in an aircraft and knowing it might be the bitter end

 

[Mavic-Master88]

My understanding is this model of helicopter has redundant systems including two engines (don't know about he capability of flying with one engine). Based on everything I've read I think it's going to come down to VFR flight into IFR conditions, loss of control resulting in flying into terrain.

I don't know how you can fly under IFR conditions if the helicopter didnt even have terrain-warning radar? I need someone to explain this.

I'm not a pilot but flying under instrument-only conditions should mean you have all the necessary equipment to fly "blind" --- ie, total fog

 

[Mavic-Master88]

I like the idea but the power consumption (IMO) would be enormous. Different from a jet engine (sufficient thrust plus air minus weight plus lift equals flight). Not to mention the size the aircraft would need to be in relation to carrying a sizable payload of people.

Power consumption of a fuel-powered engine vs. electric motors on an octacopter is a very detailed engineering discussion --- perhaps something too technical for this forum. However, I do think electric-powered human transport aircraft is a viable option in the future. Several prototypes are already available.

Besides, you could design a fuel-powered octacopter with redundant engines --- one engine powers 4 rotor blades and another engine powers the other four blades. Redundancy on both engines and rotors would seem to make crashes close to nil.

 

[Mavic-Master88]

the complexity of using a multi rotor system with the current battery and motor tech would not make such a craft financially viable

So a guy like Kobe Bryant worth over $300 million would not be willing to spend extra money on transporting himself and his family in a very expensive electric-powered octacopter that has a much lower chance of crashing because of it's redundant features?

 

[The Editor]

Power consumption of a fuel-powered engine vs. electric motors on an octacopter is a very detailed engineering discussion --- perhaps something too technical for this forum. However, I do think electric-powered human transport aircraft is a viable option in the future. Several prototypes are already available.

Besides, you could design a fuel-powered octacopter with redundant engines --- one engine powers 4 rotor blades and another engine powers the other four blades. Redundancy on both engines and rotors would seem to make crashes close to nil.

But the industry isn't interested - the cost would be astronomical (per aircraft) and companies are only interested in bottom line.

 

[Mavic-Master88]

But the industry isn't interested - the cost would be astronomical (per aircraft) and companies are only interested in bottom line.

I would agree for general-purpose people transport --- but if you developt a very expensive aircraft that has a much lower chance of crashing --- lots of rich people are gonna be willing to spend 10X as much as the average person to transport them and their family through the air

 

[Maviac]

No you couldn't be more wrong --- the NTSB has already stated the aircraft was descending at a rate of 2000 feet per minute, and that is consistent with a catastrophic engine failure --- NOT a disoriented pilot. The pilot apparently ascended to 2500 feet to clear the mountain range since he knew he didnt have terrain-warning radar equipment to guide him through the heavy fog. There are also eyewitnesses who said they heard "sputtering" noises before the crash, which is consistent with catastrophic engine failure or a stall.

Ok - neither of us actually knows what happened, but virtually all of the evidence shows CFIT or disorientation and loss of control. Other than the “sputtering” comment, which can be easily discounted since it’s a turbine and turbines don’t sputter (I’ve read NTSB reports where witnesses claimed to hear sputtering in a glider crash), literally nothing suggests a mechanical issue, and every expert who’s weighed in on it says there’s virtually no chance it was mechanical and they believe he simply flew into the mountain.

But as I said, neither of us knows. But if I were the kind of guy who liked to gamble, I’d bet much of my net worth that it will not end up being a mechanical issue. Let’s touch base in a year when the report is out.

 

[DroningOn]

So a guy like Kobe Bryant worth over $300 million....

Based on what I’ve read, that number is off by almost $500,000,000... just sayin’
Kobe did very well for himself, RIP

 

[old man mavic]

So a guy like Kobe Bryant worth over $300 million would not be willing to spend extra money on transporting himself and his family in a very expensive electric-powered octacopter that has a much lower chance of crashing because of it's redundant features?

if such a craft existed then someone that rich would probably be interested
its no different to being able to afford an executive jet for personal use
its the cost of getting such a craft built ,tested and certified that is the issue
the investment needed would be prohibitive and take a considerable time to accomplish
and finally there needs to be a market for such a craft to recover the investment in the product