Octacopters = no more Kobe-style helicopter crashes ??

[Maviac]

No you couldn't be more wrong --- the NTSB has already stated the aircraft was descending at a rate of 2000 feet per minute, and that is consistent with a catastrophic engine failure --- NOT a disoriented pilot. The pilot apparently ascended to 2500 feet to clear the mountain range since he knew he didnt have terrain-warning radar equipment to guide him through the heavy fog. There are also eyewitnesses who said they heard "sputtering" noises before the crash, which is consistent with catastrophic engine failure or a stall.

And, this was a twin turbine that can fly on one engine. So you’re saying BOTH engines failed AND the veteran pilot didn’t know how to autorotate? If it was a mechanical issue it is far more likely it was something with the collective or cyclic, but even that is wildly unlikely. And the descent speed is not that strange given he’s trying to stay under the clouds.

 

[The Editor]

Plus, most 'celebrities' do not own their own aircraft - the costs and maintenance are just not worth it (no matter how rich you are.)
They nearly all use a 'club'/broker type company that charge a fee per year.
This gives them access to private air travel within 30 minutes (which they wouldn't be able to provide faster even if the owned the aircraft.)
This means they have no control where the aircraft is actually sourced from - only that it is on the tarmac and ready for them in the timeframe they request.
Super, redundant, Titanic unsinkable helicopters just aren't going to happen.

 

[Maviac]

Plus, most 'celebrities' do not own their own aircraft - the costs and maintenance are just not worth it (no matter how rich you are.)
They nearly all use a 'club'/broker type company that charge a fee per year.
This gives them access to private air travel within 30 minutes (which they wouldn't be able to provide faster even if the owned the aircraft.)
This means they have no control where the aircraft is actually sourced from - only that it is on the tarmac and ready for them in the timeframe they request.
Super, redundant, Titanic unsinkable helicopters just aren't going to happen.

I’ve flown, and flown in, many helicopters, and frankly don’t much care for them knowing what all can go wrong. That said, this model is fairly bulletproof (aside from not having TCAS and some other modern features). I’d trust one to take up my wife and kids tomorrow. I don’t see anyone developing, much less paying for, an aircraft requiring 6 or 8 turbines. Helis are more dangerous than fixed wing AC, but the mechanical aspects (although they do scare me) are rare, and virtually nonexistent in turbine models.

 

[old man mavic]

maybe it would be better if instead of all this speculation about the cause of the crash
we wait for the air crash investigators to do there job
and just be thankful that the loss of life was not greater than it was, out of respect for those who died

 

[Maviac]

maybe it would be better if instead of all this speculation about the cause of the crash
we wait for the air crash investigators to do there job
and just be thankful that the loss of life was not greater than it was, out of respect for those who died

Fair enough. As a pilot we tend to deconstruct these sorts of things and this has been a big topic in some circles I belong to. Having lost a couple of pilot friends to something similar, we want to determine what went wrong to avoid it the next time. But I understand this might not be the place to do it.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Plus, most 'celebrities' do not own their own aircraft

. . . or their own pilots.

Some of course do buy their own aircraft, and pilot them too !!
At least one famous actor is as qualified as commercial airline pilots.

 

[Mavic-Master88]

literally nothing suggests a mechanical issue, and every expert who’s weighed in on it says there’s virtually no chance it was mechanical and they believe he simply flew into the mountain.

Experienced pilots like Ara Zobayan dont suddenly descend at 30 feet per second because of disorientation --- if anything, he would be ascending to make sure he would clear the mountain range he was trying to get over --- it's like a mechanical failure because that best explains a rapid descent and loss of control

 

[Mavic-Master88]

if such a craft existed then someone that rich would probably be interested
its no different to being able to afford an executive jet for personal use
its the cost of getting such a craft built ,tested and certified that is the issue
the investment needed would be prohibitive and take a considerable time to accomplish
and finally there needs to be a market for such a craft to recover the investment in the product

I look at everything in common sense terms --- and it had served me well for all of my life.

Common sense says take the average person and two RC aircrafts --- a nitro-powered helicopter and a DJI Mavic 2 --- and fly them around for a week and see which one is likely to crash first --- my money says the nitro copter --- simply because it's a single-engine craft that is harder to keep in the air than a quadcopter

 

[Mavic-Master88]

Based on what I’ve read, that number is off by almost $500,000,000... just sayin’
Kobe did very well for himself, RIP

I doubt he was worth $800 million --- that is Jordan and LeBron territory --- very rarified air

 

[Maviac]

Experienced pilots like Ara Zobayan dont suddenly descend at 30 feet per second because of disorientation --- if anything, he would be ascending to make sure he would clear the mountain range he was trying to get over --- it's like a mechanical failure because that best explains a rapid descent and loss of control

Like I said, neither of us knows, but I respectfully disagree. I read tons of NTSB reports and am somewhat familiar with his aircraft and helis generally. I just think it’s very unlikely to be mechanical. For input from some pro helicopter pilots, including several who are experienced with this model, you might find the discussion on PPRUNE.com interesting (a professional pilot forum; it’s currently the top topic on the forum). The strong consensus among the pro pilots is that it was not mechanical. My professional pilot friends agree (anecdotal, I know).

As to the subject of the email, to get back on topic (sorry folks), they’d need to be turbine for commercial use, and the cost of that many spinners on a smaller aircraft would be enormous, in terms of initial costs, fuel, and maintenance. Unless multiple props could be run on a single engine (I can’t imagine how that transmission would work), but that would eliminate the redundancy/safety aspect.

Anyway, if anybody could do it they’d be rich; I’m not smart enough to conceive how it would work.

 

[Kilrah]

I'm not a pilot but flying under instrument-only conditions should mean you have all the necessary equipment to fly "blind" --- ie, total fog

You can't do it safely and are not allowed to for that reason, but that doesn't prevent people from going "it'll be OK" and try it anyway. Countless examples of crashes due to that, even very experienced and respected pilots.
Couple of years ago an aerobatic champion with an entire military flying career behind him crashed with his entire family becasue of that here, weather was crap but wasn't gonna get in the way of the holiday trip.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I look at everything in common sense terms --- and it had served me well for all of my life.

Common sense says take the average person and two RC aircrafts --- a nitro-powered helicopter and a DJI Mavic 2 --- and fly them around for a week and see which one is likely to crash first --- my money says the nitro copter --- simply because it's a single-engine craft that is harder to keep in the air than a quadcopter

Perhaps but not for reasons you propose. Simply because it takes no skill to fly a GPS equipped drone. RC heli’s require training and a lot of hours to become proficient. Your average drone operator might get 30sec max on the sticks of an RC heli (electric or nitro) before crashing it.

 

[Maviac]

You can't do it safely and are not allowed to for that reason, but that doesn't prevent people from going "it'll be OK" and try it anyway. Countless examples of crashes due to that, even very experienced and respected pilots.
Couple of years ago an aerobatic champion with an entire military flying career behind him crashed with his entire family becasue of that here, weather was crap but wasn't gonna get in the way of the holiday trip.

Most likely the instruments were fine, and it surely had a modern flight management system (I’ll have to go check the cockpit photos I’ve seen to see what it had, but it sounds like this was a pretty legit operation). Not clear if the pilot was IFR current. IMC is a dicier proposition in copters than fixed wing due to the inherent instability. Go rent an R22 for an hour and practice hovering, then imagine trying it with no visual reference. It’s not a lot of fun.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

I don't know how you can fly under IFR conditions if the helicopter didnt even have terrain-warning radar? I need someone to explain this.

I'm not a pilot but flying under instrument-only conditions should mean you have all the necessary equipment to fly "blind" --- ie, total fog

Unless something has changed since I got my instrument rating terrain warning equipment isn't required for IFR flight.

 

[FLPilotshark]

What I don't understand if the LA PD decided to ground all of there Helicopters due to the bad conditions why was this guy flying period?

 

[Dave Maine]

Until the NTSB actually finished the analysis, all this discussion is pointless Monday Morning quarterbacking. We do know that the pilot was flying in conditions below VFR minimums, and had asked and gotten special permission to do so.

 

[GregS]

Where did you hear that. There was no engine failure. Look it up...he was on a special VFR Clearance to fly out of the fog. He was doing a 180 to get out of the dense fog and flew into the hillside. An experienced pilot should never have flown in those conditions.

 

[flyinblackpro]

I like the idea but the power consumption (IMO) would be enormous. Different from a jet engine (sufficient thrust plus air minus weight plus lift equals flight). Not to mention the size the aircraft would need to be in relation to carrying a sizable payload of people. I did a quick search for some data and I found nothing (other than drones). Can you point me to some literature to read or are we just 'generally' discussing the possibility?

If so (generally speaking), I like the concept. Before the Mavic Pro was released I was COMPLETELY sold on Yuneec's Typhoon H with the 6 rotors. I almost pulled the trigger. I definitely would love to see (and read) up on the octocopter concept, power plants, avionics and stability. Very interesting . . .

 

[Obsidian Sereniti]

Unless I’m missing it, please remember that the current configuration Of props for our quads is no more or less stable than a helicopter. What I’m saying is if you lose a motor on your quad, just one...it’s going down.

Certainly some other system can be designed but just saying currently, you are still gonna fall out of the sky when you lose one of the 4 props and motors.

 

[MavicManic]

If my mavic pro has obstacle detection in a $1,000 aircraft, why don’t choppers? Also, why couldn’t pilot ascend, if he was disoriented, to a height over the highest hills and then use gps to get over airport? Even if he had to use an iphone? He knew the terrain from previous flights. If the highest hill was, say, 500 feet, why not simply fly at 600 feet from point A to point B, then slowly descend to the airport? This doesn’t make sense.