Thank you sir for diligent work and passing on the information...be safe, fly smart
Refusal to Register With FAA
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ac0j
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LOL. I guess I also don’t know what his arguement is. At least he abandoned the car comparison. And knows now there is a registration card for the owner.
I don’t know how what he just found out is any different than what I have explained twice. I am leaving it alone.
I don’t know how what he just found out is any different than what I have explained twice. I am leaving it alone.
No, I asked Brandon about the car comparison, and he said that is on point. Suppose you tell me exactly how that analogy is not on point? You register your car. You register your drone. Both are registered in your name, and you are free to loan out your registered car and your registered drone. The borrower using your vehicle or drone should have your registration with them. People who never have a car registered in their name can nevertheless drive borrowed cars. People who never have a drone registered in their name can nevertheless fly drones. Automobile drivers must themselves be licensed, but recreational drone users need not be.
My point is that the registration is for the drone. That the registered owner can loan out the drone, and others can fly it even if they don't own a drone and aren't registered with the FAA. Moreover, those who do not own drones are not only not required to register with the FAA, but are not supposed to. My point is that this is all according to the FAA themselves and that you have posted wrong information here. My point is further that people should ignore your assertions as baseless.
My point, in response to your armchair quarterbacking regarding liability, is also that the drone being registered in your name does not necessarily establish your liability for what anyone to whom you loan your drone does with your drone.
Is all of that finally clear enough for you? At this point, you are simply trolling.
ac0j
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I have written it very simply. Feel free to reread my previous posts with an open mind. If you wish to discuss this more I would love to see what your point is. Please do it by private message. The moderators don’t like it when things get heated in the open forum. And I can see you are passionate about whatever it is you are trying to prove I think we are arguing two different topics from what I can tell. Let’s start over in PM if you like. Otherwise I don’t know what else to say. It seems you are arguing loaning and borrowing drones And I have not posted an opinion on that.
This is not getting heated. I am putting the correct information in, and, for some reason, you are arguing. Here are your statements in this thread to which I am replying:
"It is registering the owner/pilot only. You then put YOUR assigned FAA reg.# on all of your toys. There is also a certificate of registration card you should print out and carry. Its not about the toys, its about who is flying them, so NO serial numbers are required for hobby use." -ac0j
and:
"If it's your registration number, YOU are responsible. Even if you let cousin IT fly it. So I say again. It's the owner that is registered, not the AC. That is all I said, it's a fact, so what's the problem?" - ac0j
Those statements of yours are incorrect, and I have explained why repeatedly. Now you act like you can't even understand my point. You are registering the drone, not the flyer, and that is according to the FAA, as I explained above. Just because you are the registered owner of a drone, that does not mean you are necessarily responsible for damage caused when others are flying it.
You are being purposefully obtuse. I don't think I could be clearer.
"It is registering the owner/pilot only. You then put YOUR assigned FAA reg.# on all of your toys. There is also a certificate of registration card you should print out and carry. Its not about the toys, its about who is flying them, so NO serial numbers are required for hobby use." -ac0j
and:
"If it's your registration number, YOU are responsible. Even if you let cousin IT fly it. So I say again. It's the owner that is registered, not the AC. That is all I said, it's a fact, so what's the problem?" - ac0j
Those statements of yours are incorrect, and I have explained why repeatedly. Now you act like you can't even understand my point. You are registering the drone, not the flyer, and that is according to the FAA, as I explained above. Just because you are the registered owner of a drone, that does not mean you are necessarily responsible for damage caused when others are flying it.
You are being purposefully obtuse. I don't think I could be clearer.
ac0j
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The link in the post above is direct from the FAA. It confirms most of my comments.
As for liability, That is only decided in courts. NOT by the FAA.
For example, I could file a lawsuit against you RIGHT now for the hail Damage on my car here in Nebraska.
Obviously, since O.J's Kardashian is no longer with us there probably not a lawyer that could win that case.
Never the less, time and maybe money is going to be spent to address it. Even though there is no Basis, I am due my day in court.
I have decided, your argument is about letting people fly your drone using your ID# and not having liability,
my argument is that it is YOUR ID number. So it is really a misunderstanding on Both of our parts.
You understand that it doesnt really make a difference which is correct, weather the drone is registered or the person right?
Because whatever is registered. is ONLY done to identify you as the owner. The FAA doesnt deal in lost and found, (as some one suggested earlier) if you find a drone with the FAA# on it, they will NOT tell you who it belongs to, it has been tried.
Tell, me then if there are no yearly taxes involved, and no returning property to owners, Why would they want a persons Name associated with a drone?
Let someone fly your Mavic through someones windshield, and let me know what they use the DRONE registration for.
Now PLEASE, if you feel the need to keep calling me out on this, do it in PM form. I do not need to get banned over this nonsense.
I'll go in reverse order. You ask why they would want a person's name associated with the drone. The public concern about these drones is that they will crash and cause damage, or, worse yet, kill or hurt people. They want a person's name so they can trace back to a person because, if the drone crashes and causes damage or injury, they will be able begin the process of determining criminal and/or civil liability by talking to the registered owner. In a prior post in this thread, you said that because a drone is registered in your name, you are liable. That is not true.
To take your example, if a drone registered to me crashes through your windshield, the authorities will certainly start with questioning me. If I tell them that I was not flying my drone when it crashed through your windshield (that I loaned it to someone, or that it was stolen, etc.), they will certainly have a lot of questions for me. They will be looking very closely at me in terms of criminal liability, and the injured party will be looking very closely at me in terms of civil liability. To establish criminal liability, they will have to prove it was me flying it.
The point I'm making is not merely about liability. It is refuting your assertion that the FAA registration is about the person. It is not. It is about the drone and having the drone labeled with a number so that it can be traced back to whomever might have been flying it at the time it crashed and caused injury or damage.
Finally, it does make a difference whether the drone or the person is registered. The difference is in who all must go online and register. The answer is only those who own drones, and that is not everyone flies them. You could fly drones you've borrowed (that are registered in someone else's name) every day for your entire life and never own a drone. If the registration was about the person, everyone who ever flies a drone recreationally would have to register. As it is, the FAA says mere users (who are not owners) do not and should not register unless they own a drone.
I don't know what you're saying now about liability in your latest post. I know very well that liability is a matter decided in the courts according to the law (that is what I said in a prior post). If you sued me over hail damage in Nebraska, your case would be tossed. You would not have your day in court. A judge would take one look at it and toss it as there is no possible way a person could be responsible for causing hail. You can get a day in court for a great many ridiculous claims, but not absolute nonsense that is invalid on its face.
In an earlier post in this thread, you had said registration equals automatic liability, and that is simply not true. This area of law is developing. Having seen the reckless things people are doing with their drones in YouTube videos, I expect that the laws will become much more stringent over time. They may at some point say that everyone who ever flies a drone must have an FAA number, and that they must have it labeled on every drone they fly while they are flying it. Then it would be about the person, but, for now, it is about the drone.
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Turn11
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I hate to say it but the word troll comes to mind. I hope I am wrong and he/she turns out to be a ....... Sar104 or some other outstanding individuals.
Is that referring to me or the other guy? I can assure you I'm no troll. I just got my first new drone in about five years, and I found this thread because I had to decide which family member's name to register my drone under. I'm not the only one who will fly it, and, while I'm on the credit card account it was purchased with, it wasn't purchased using my particular card. So that is where all of this starts, and the only reason I'm continuing to post is that this is ultimately not a matter of opinion. People are all entitled to opinions. This is about what the current governmental registration requirements are, and how to meet them.
JSKCKNIT
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This has probably already been stated, but it's a $27,000 civil fine. Criminal penalties can go up to $250,000 and/or up to 3 years in jail.
JSKCKNIT
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Not to bust your [emoji459] [emoji460] or anything, but federal law requires you to present your registration to federal, state, local law enforcement if asked. (Exception being those flying exclusively under Section 336)
There have been fines levied by the FAA over this. It only happens usually in the event that some kind of injury or damage occurred. Couple of issues, one I have found dealing with the FAA is that many of them are not very familiar with the rules. In more than 1 case I have had to explain the rules to them. Also there is a lot of confusion. The FAA recently told me if you have a license per 107 then you can never fly under the hobby rules 336. Also one told me that I had to register all of my drones separately under 336 rules and another told me only once as I was registering myself not the drones per se! I also know the police in my area have just a little knowledge of this and love to tell me that I cannot fly within 5 miles of an airport and I have 5! I have shown them my license and a copy of the 336 rules and then they usually shake their heads and leave.
Recently while flying under 336 rules, a state police asked for my registration which I have for all of my drones. I asked him since this was under hobby rules if I really had to show him this. He brought up a memo on his phone that the FAA had sent the State Police. It stated that I would be required to provide my registration or face possible fines due to being in violation of 336?!
macoman
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The state police is right and he cooperated with you showing the information which is nice from him to do it. If he was another type of guy, he would not been showing that info and put you a ticket just to bother you.
So I called the FAA today and they stated that the Public law Part 101 was no longer applicable. Per the 336 as approved in Dec of 17 for implementation in 2018, you must in fact register every hobby drone and get a specific FAA registration number. You do not always have to put in a serial number as some companies just don't have them. One of my drones fell into that category.
One of you is _clearly_ wrong. As mentioned (I provided absolute proof in my prior post)... DRONES ARE NOT REGISTERED. I'm just not sure how much more proof anyone could provide on this. I walked you through the 336 registration pages as part of that proof.
What was he doing during that time? Is he not someone who should know this stuff?
I could provide as much as I did in my prior post as to why the regulations don't favor this view but I suspect you'd simply ignore that proof as well. I'll just skim on some highlights as it is not really worth my time. The registration requires that all fliers have their certificates with when when flying. If you are not registered, you don't have a certificate. If you were to actually read the actual regulations on registration it always states that the _operator_ needs to be registered. It does not say "owner". If the operator did not registered (and thereby be able to prove valid registration), anyone could simply use someone else's registration all of the time. If you use my registration and you get into trouble, I'm certainly not going to be held in violation for what you did wrong. So doing as you mentioned completely breaks the entire reason for the registration.
As I said, I could provide proof to back all of this up and proof that what "Brandon" told you is incorrect (I have already to some degree in my prior post) but you simply choose to ignore that proof and continue.
BTW, it's been shown that random FAA people have been wrong before. The FAA has officially confirmed this. Also, unless those people's information is questioned against the facts, their information would be highly suspect. As I showed above, "Brandon's" information is clearly incorrect.
You were misinformed or misunderstood what you were told. Part 101 is not public law, it is part of 14 CFR Subpart E, which codifies the Special Rule for Model Aircraft. The relevant Public Law is Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 (Public Law 112-95). Those have not been revoked. The FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018 makes some minor modifications to Section 336, but does not change the current registration requirements.
You are 100% incorrect and I have provided a lot of proof within this same thread. As I put forth as proof, you cannot in any way register a drone under Section 336. There is simply no means to even do this.
I'm surprised that anyone is still arguing about this. It's trivial to go to the FAA registration site to see how it works, at which point it becomes obvious that you cannot register a drone under Section 336. The Section 336 dashboard doesn't have any mechanism to add drones - once you have registered yourself it simply tells you to mark all your aircraft with your assigned registration number.
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