What Would You Do?

[Vic Moss]

Al, why exactly are they "floored" by this? Have they never looked at YouTube before? This is perfectly representative...if they are shocked by this, they're disconnected from reality.

The FAA is well aware of what goes on with flight videos and photos on social media. They just aren't really able to do anything about it in a proactive manner. Not only do that not have the time or budget to actually spend looking, they can't use simple social media uploads are the primary tool for investigation. There needs to be more evidence.

They know perfectly well what some people do, and how stupid some people are. This is a common conversational topic in many of the conversations I have with them.

 

[Aerophile]

Oh, no, I know well that any professional has more important things to do than troll YouTube or other social media (licensed pilot and aircraft owner for decades here, I get along just fine with our friends at the FAA and appreciate their work).

But the video in question here is representative of nearly all videos posted online, anywhere. The (often willful) ignorance and wholesale violation of regulations are brazen but as common as stars in the sky. This kid's video should not come as a surprise to anyone.

 

[mavic3usa]

I don't know about everyone else but I am starting to see quite a bit of AI generated content on YT. It's just a matter of time before it will be impossible to determine if a video showing a drone circling the Empire State building or flying across the Grand Canyon or harassing a police helicopter is real or not. Even if it looks real and you can identify the person, place, and the detail....it still might be fake. Especially in terms of "how close" or "when did this happen" or "what was the response." Worth an investigation? Probably, depending on how egregious or if there is other evidence like a bystander video or a police report. When there are hundreds if not thousands of similar videos like this then we all have to go back to our real lives and not trying to prosecute our fictitious lives thru social media taking over. Anyone can fake a drone video dropping contraband into a prison or flying around the Capitol looking for rioters and soon you won't have to know how to fake it, AI can create it for you.

 

[Torque]

I'm shocked that there are people that see nothing wrong with this video or are defending the pilot with their no-damage-done comments.
There are members here who are agitating for the ability to fly in NPs, this video just strengthens my resolve against them.
As a Utah native, I can't imagine the peace and serenity of my state's numerous parks being disrupted by even one drone.

 

[Parkerjh]

So, my question, what would you do with the video? Report the person, leave it, figure out who to send it to? I am not trying to be a narc or a tattletale, but this is such an egregious act that this individual needs to learn from. What would you do?

You are not trying to be a narc or tattletale but want to know who to send it to? If it riles you up so much, why not simply respond, "Thank you for the video but we are unable to use it as it violates several laws and we'd put the content creator at risk for penalties and fines if we helped publicize it"? A little education might be helpful.

 

[mobilehomer]

I'm shocked that there are people that see nothing wrong with this video or are defending the pilot with their no-damage-done comments.
There are members here who are agitating for the ability to fly in NPs, this video just strengthens my resolve against them.
As a Utah native, I can't imagine the peace and serenity of my state's numerous parks being disrupted by even one drone.

First, I do not condone breaking the rules. But, you have no problem with a group of Harley riders? Or Street Rodders? Or all the idiots who cannot stay in their cars and approach wildlife with sometimes disastrous results? Or thump, thump, thump bass coming from some kid's hooptie?

 

[Torque]

First, I do not condone breaking the rules. But, you have no problem with a group of Harley riders? Or Street Rodders? Or all the idiots who cannot stay in their cars and approach wildlife with sometimes disastrous results? Or thump, thump, thump bass coming from some kid's hooptie?

I have not encountered a group of Harley riders in any NP - the ones I associate with are far more respectful.
I have not encountered a group of Street Rodders cruising our NPs, have you? I enjoy street rodders.
Nor have I encountered the thump thump bass from some kid's hooptie in any NP.
But if I had encountered any of these selfish, thoughtless fellow citizens, should that justify flying drones in our NPs?

Or are you insinuating I don't mind these folks, but hate drones irrationally?

Or you trying to say 3 wrongs make a right?

Not sure what point your attempting.

As far as the idiots who try to approach wild life each and every year in our western NPs?
That is the same type of idiot who thinks they are entitled to fly their drone in a National Park IMO.

 

[mavic3usa]

Or are you insinuating I don't mind these folks, but hate drones irrationally?

Um, it's the "you hate drones irrationally" part.

 

[mobilehomer]

I have not encountered a group of Harley riders in any NP - the ones I associate with are far more respectful.
I have not encountered a group of Street Rodders cruising our NPs, have you? I enjoy street rodders.
Nor have I encountered the thump thump bass from some kid's hooptie in any NP.
But if I had encountered any of these selfish, thoughtless fellow citizens, should that justify flying drones in our NPs?

Or are you insinuating I don't mind these folks, but hate drones irrationally?

Or you trying to say 3 wrongs make a right?

Not sure what point your attempting.

As far as the idiots who try to approach wild life each and every year in our western NPs?
That is the same type of idiot who thinks they are entitled to fly their drone in a National Park IMO.

Selective indignation. YES, Harley riders and Street Rodders visit the National Parks. I know if you hated drones, you would not be here.

 

[Torque]

Selective indignation. YES, Harley riders and Street Rodders visit the National Parks. I know if you hated drones, you would not be here.

The next time a group of Harleys or Street Rodders speed through a NP I'm in, I'll capture it on my camera. I've encountered several Harleys in NP, but not more than 2 - 3 bikes, and they weren't racing their engines. In fact I was with a cousin once in Arches National Park (I was in my car) as he road his infamous Turquoise and Silver encrusted Harley through the park for a Photo shoot for some Biker magazine. I suppose groups from Sturgis may visit nearby NPs, but I have not encountered a large group of bikers making noise in a park.
Again, I see no comparison between road traffic and drones flying through canyons, geysers, herds of elk, or drowning out the sound of water falls and birds, and destroying my vista and solitude. Now if off road bikes and ATVs were in our parks, we might have an analogy.

 

[mavic3usa]

They make more noise in this one ride than a thousand drones could make in a thousand years.

 

[mobilehomer]

The next time a group of Harleys or Street Rodders speed through a NP I'm in, I'll capture it on my camera. I've encountered several Harleys in NP, but not more than 2 - 3 bikes, and they weren't racing their engines. In fact I was with a cousin once in Arches National Park (I was in my car) as he road his infamous Turquoise and Silver encrusted Harley through the park for a Photo shoot for some Biker magazine. I suppose groups from Sturgis may visit nearby NPs, but I have not encountered a large group of bikers making noise in a park.
Again, I see no comparison between road traffic and drones flying through canyons, geysers, herds of elk, or drowning out the sound of water falls and birds, and destroying my vista and solitude. Now if off road bikes and ATVs were in our parks, we might have an analogy.

Smokey Mountains, Tail of the Dragon. Rod runs in Pigeon Forge , Sturgis Mount Rushmore. By the way, I never mentioned speeding or racing engines. There is no need with some of these vehicles. Again, selective indignation.

 

[tlyons]

Just saying what?

That he could have launched from that location and flown over the elk at low altitude and still maintained VLOS? Nope.

100% there is no way to make this flight taking off from outside the park.

Doesn't matter. It's a controlled airspace not a property owner stating you cannot launch from their land.

Also, of course “Willfully approaching within 50 yards (150 feet), or any distance that disturbs or displaces bear or elk is prohibited. In addition, feeding, touching, teasing, frightening, or intentionally disturbing wildlife is prohibited." No one cares you didn't know the rules and worse would be trying to explain you thought 50m up was OK but you knew 50m away was wrong.

 

[Torque]

Smokey Mountains, Tail of the Dragon. Rod runs in Pigeon Forge , Sturgis Mount Rushmore. By the way, I never mentioned speeding or racing engines. There is no need with some of these vehicles. Again, selective indignation.

Ok. Not something I've experienced.

Does this justify allowing drones in our NPs?

 

[MS Coast]

Doesn't matter. It's a controlled airspace not a property owner stating you cannot launch from their land.

Actually, it's the other way around. It's not controlled airspace. The National Park Service (manages the land on behalf of us citizen owners) prohibits operating drones from National Parks. It's legal to fly over a National Park if you launch outside the park boundary and maintain VLOS.

You're right about wildlife disturbance regulation. I wasn't aware that there was a minimum distance specified. That's good to know.

 

[MS Coast]

They make more noise in this one ride than a thousand drones could make in a thousand years.

I think we agree that we don't like excessively noisy motor vehicles in National Parks. But the fact that noisy motorcycles or cars may be there isn't justification for ignoring all other potential nuisances.

Unlike a noisy vehicle, drones aren't limited to operating on roadways. The egregious examples of bad drone flying that I'm aware of that led to the blanket drone prohibition took place away from the roadways. Drones can operate over a much larger area and penetrate much further into places that would otherwise be quiet and peaceful.

For those who never leave the National Park roadways and associated parking areas and attractions, I can understand why you might think drones aren't much of an issue. But if you hiked two hours into a remote campsite or walked up a stream a mile to fish, a drone overhead is a much more annoying thing.

 

[mavic3usa]

I think we agree that we don't like excessively noisy motor vehicles in National Parks. But the fact that noisy motorcycles or cars may be there isn't justification for ignoring all other potential nuisances.

Unlike a noisy vehicle, drones aren't limited to operating on roadways. The egregious examples of bad drone flying that I'm aware of that led to the blanket drone prohibition took place away from the roadways. Drones can operate over a much larger area and penetrate much further into places that would otherwise be quiet and peaceful.

For those who never leave the National Park roadways and associated parking areas and attractions, I can understand why you might think drones aren't much of an issue. But if you hiked two hours into a remote campsite or walked up a stream a mile to fish, a drone overhead is a much more annoying thing.

Would you be open to an update to the NPS rules that requires all drone flights to takeoff with the pilot taking off within 150 ft of a roadway and maintain VLOS or 2 miles from any road and the remainder of the park is a drone no-fly zone? That way we can allow drones inside the park along with cars and motorcycles and the noise from the drones can be limited to just the same places where the cars and the motorcycles and the children playing are located.

There is a super long road that leads all the way into the entrance of the Grand Canyon North Rim with many turnoffs and although the traffic is moderate since it's the only way in and out, at times it is sparse because it's so long. I can fly my drone and not see a single person or car even if I fly from a pullout and maintain VLOS.

In the video at the Badlands, the bike rider claims he can hear his pipes echoing off the canyon walls. Those of us who ride bikes, we know what that means. I don't think it's egregious but it certainly isn't very respectful to those seeking peace and quiet. Maybe the NPS should do something about that noise and stop trying to quiet down the enemy drones because we all know when drones eventually becomes super quiet, they still won't be allowed. Other excuses will be found. We know this because everything else in the park started that way with all kinds of ridiculous excuses until the excuses ran out and they were finally allowed. Usually it's about money or about the tech being adopted by the park. And sometimes but not often, it's about the people pushing back.

 

[MS Coast]

Would you be open to an update to the NPS rules that requires all drone flights to takeoff with the pilot taking off within 150 ft of a roadway and maintain VLOS or 2 miles from any road and the remainder of the park is a drone no-fly zone? That way we can allow drones inside the park along with cars and motorcycles and the noise from the drones can be limited to just the same places where the cars and the motorcycles and the children playing are located.

I don't make the rules. But, the NPS is highly unlikely to adopt such a difficult-to-enforce regulation. Regulations that can't be easily enforced are not effective. The "no drones" rule is as simple as it gets.

There is a super long road that leads all the way into the entrance of the Grand Canyon North Rim with many turnoffs and although the traffic is moderate since it's the only way in and out, at times it is sparse because it's so long. I can fly my drone and not see a single person or car even if I fly from a pullout and maintain VLOS.

Yes, you might not see the group of hikers 200 yards below you on the rim trail. Or the folks stopped at the next turnoff who are sitting quietly and enjoying the tranquility of the place.

In the video at the Badlands, the bike rider claims he can hear his pipes echoing off the canyon walls. Those of us who ride bikes, we know what that means. I don't think it's egregious but it certainly isn't very respectful to those seeking peace and quiet. Maybe the NPS should do something about that noise and stop trying to quiet down the enemy drones because we all know when drones eventually becomes super quiet, they still won't be allowed. Other excuses will be found. We know this because everything else in the park started that way with all kinds of ridiculous excuses until the excuses ran out and they were finally allowed. Usually it's about money or about the tech being adopted by the park. And sometimes but not often, it's about the people pushing back.

If you're bothered by motorcycle noise in the National Parks, by all means try to "push back" in favor of a change in regulations. But motorcycle noise isn't relevant to a drone forum.

 

[Torque]

Would you be open to an update to the NPS rules that requires all drone flights to takeoff with the pilot taking off within 150 ft of a roadway and maintain VLOS or 2 miles from any road and the remainder of the park is a drone no-fly zone? That way we can allow drones inside the park along with cars and motorcycles and the noise from the drones can be limited to just the same places where the cars and the motorcycles and the children playing are located.

There is a super long road that leads all the way into the entrance of the Grand Canyon North Rim with many turnoffs and although the traffic is moderate since it's the only way in and out, at times it is sparse because it's so long. I can fly my drone and not see a single person or car even if I fly from a pullout and maintain VLOS.

In the video at the Badlands, the bike rider claims he can hear his pipes echoing off the canyon walls. Those of us who ride bikes, we know what that means. I don't think it's egregious but it certainly isn't very respectful to those seeking peace and quiet. Maybe the NPS should do something about that noise and stop trying to quiet down the enemy drones because we all know when drones eventually becomes super quiet, they still won't be allowed. Other excuses will be found. We know this because everything else in the park started that way with all kinds of ridiculous excuses until the excuses ran out and they were finally allowed. Usually it's about money or about the tech being adopted by the park. And sometimes but not often, it's about the people pushing back.

The only 4 flight zones in the GC, reserved for all the tourists flights. Drones will never be allowed.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Would you be open to an update to the NPS rules that requires all drone flights to takeoff with the pilot taking off within 150 ft of a roadway and maintain VLOS or 2 miles from any road and the remainder of the park is a drone no-fly zone?

I for one wouldn't. Are you suggesting you can maintain VLOS at 2 miles? In any case, the GSM NP video is a perfect example of why your idea is DOA - the road and the parking lot are just hundreds of feet from that herd.

Maybe the NPS should do something about that noise and stop trying to quiet down the enemy drones because we all know when drones eventually becomes super quiet, they still won't be allowed. Other excuses will be found.

Regardless of what anyone, or any sign says, the sound/noise of a drone is NOT why we can't fly in NPs. A lot of folks who fly drones like to make that claim so their argument seems stronger.

The majority of drone pilots make their own rules, and rely on their own personal judgement when flying, as evidenced in this forum and these threads, thus they can be expected to follow no rules. So no drones in NPs.