2 men facing Federal Charges for stadium flyover

[Cincigreg]

You may remember the flyover during the NFL playoff game. The second one happened a few months after that during the baseball opening day.

DOJ: Federal grand jury charges two men for allegedly flying drones over Bengals, Reds games

 

[Zeke]

Sadly, I suspect as the popularity of drones increases we'll see more and more of these reckless events. Like the nimrod who decides to purchase and carry a firearm without a shred of training, too many people look at these drones in less than a serious light.

Earlier this week a co-worker expressed interest in buying one because they "look like fun". Can't argue that point, but when I started to tell him some of the things he needs to do (registration, TRUST, learn about airspace, etc.) he was shocked. I'm pretty sure he's decided to stick to golf but it just illustrated how many people leap before they look.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[vindibona1]

Ya know... As meticulous as DJI is in terms of making droning a pain in the festerus with their geofencing, you would think that something as simple as as including a leaflet in their boxes with the general rules of the road for droning. While it would be feasible to include country specific material to the countries they export to (possibly attached to the outside of the packaging) or even general rules that all countries pretty much follow on the inside.

Everyone in the hobby/business wants to keep the activity of droning in good stead with the public, but someone buying a drone for the first time might not even think about stuff like... not flying over Bengals stadium... or over people in general. Until they dial into a forum like this one, without the information which outlines the basic "rules of the road...err.. air" how would they know? When I started with my first drone I knew nothing but used common sense until I did, asking for permission to fly over buildings or property. Staying away from people. Staying fairly close to the ground until I learned of a general 400' ceiling.

Funny how DJI goes to greath lengths for some things and forgets another thing that is so basic, and yet so crucial.

 

[old man mavic]

purchasing anything that has the potential to cause harm, is really the responsibility of the purchaser to do their due diligence, when it comes to abiding to legislation
DJI at least try to have some control over where their drones can fly ,by geofencing, and when they do it upsets lots of people who dont like it
its up to governments to educate, as well as legislate ,on safe drone usage in their particular part of the world

 

[Robert Prior]

As meticulous as DJI is in terms of making droning a pain in the festerus with their geofencing, you would think that something as simple as as including a leaflet in their boxes with the general rules of the road for droning.

Inside my Mini 3 there were two pieces of paper (one for the EU, one for Australia) stating that regulations applied to flying and giving links and QR codes leading to them.

My guess is something like that is a requirement to sell the drones there.

Looking at all the warnings one finds on many other products, I'm a bit surprised that DJI isn't doing this just as a matter of liability. When a set of kitchen knives is labelled "keep out of reach of children" to avoid lawsuits…

 

[dart106]

You may remember the flyover during the NFL playoff game. The second one happened a few months after that during the baseball opening day.

DOJ: Federal grand jury charges two men for allegedly flying drones over Bengals, Reds games

The things more regulations are made of in attempt to induce good judgement.

 

[JimSteadman]

DJI is not in the paper business. What arrives with the drone is almost nothing and it is printed in gray ink in about 4 pt font. They could easily (I think) make sure you could not fly the drone until you took and passed the Trust Pilot test or some specifications of their own devising. But the emphasis is all fun all the time - flying fast and close to trees, buildings etc. Exciting video, but it only drives more folks to be careless.

It is an endless cycle, Rules are made. Rules are broken without consequence. Rules are ignored. Someone gets offended, hurt or mad. If reasonable rules were made AND ENFORCED we wouldn't have this discussion. If we cannot deal with rule BREAKERS, we will have to contend with the rule MAKERS who will make it tougher for all of us. And the cycle will begin again.

 

[Macinfo]

Virtually everything you get now with rare exceptions has some sort of warning labels. Some may merely point to the user manual. Which in some cases depending on the product, have several pages at the very front warning you about everything under the sun, most of which you'd think its common sense, but that seems to be gone now..

For example a TV manual warns to you disconnect the cables before moving, or do not expose product to water, you may get shocked.. Why DJI cannot include a few page booklet with basic drone rules for most countries and links to find out more in a few languages, seems like a no-brainer.. Sure there is a cost to that, but the development effort costs DJI incurs when they apply their geo-fencing efforts, adding a basic rules booklet to the box would be a drop in the bucket.

Course as noted, you cannot tell people the rules and expect them to be followed if there are no consequences in most cases.. On the other hand, if a new drone owner has absolutely zero basic rules information included with their new drone, they'll will more than likely remain clueless for a long time till they trip over a site like this that may inform them if they ask the questions or read posted discussions on the topic.

 

[retiredNH]

Warning labels, cautions, and the proverbial "keep out of reach of children" are not there because of rules. They're there for liability reasons. Some may seem silly but keep in mind that each caution is the result of some kind of lawsuit.

Federal rules, such as those from CPSC, to my knowledge, are much more focused on design issues that on label cautions (with the exception of FDA, which uses "black box" warnings).

Given how many drone rules are already conveniently ignored (BVLOS my favorite example), what's the upside for DJI to tell us to register?

 

[Lady Flyer]

You may remember the flyover during the NFL playoff game. The second one happened a few months after that during the baseball opening day.

DOJ: Federal grand jury charges two men for allegedly flying drones over Bengals, Reds games

What were they thinking?

 

[Macinfo]

Warning labels, cautions, and the proverbial "keep out of reach of children" are not there because of rules. They're there for liability reasons. Some may seem silly but keep in mind that each caution is the result of some kind of lawsuit.

Federal rules, such as those from CPSC, to my knowledge, are much more focused on design issues that on label cautions (with the exception of FDA, which uses "black box" warnings).

Given how many drone rules are already conveniently ignored (BVLOS my favorite example), what's the upside for DJI to tell us to register?

True. however, probably not all cautions are results of litigation, even then how do you give the newbie drone pilot a heads up to the rules if there is nothing included with their new drone to at least give them the info, have a "read me first" doc in there that says to read the manual and be aware of these FAA or other rules when flying your drone..

Sure there is no way to tell people to read it, and some may not, but if they do, then at least there is the potential that they'll abide by some of the rules to some degree instead of doing whatever they want..

Maybe its to much to ask, but you have to start somewhere to at least make new pilots aware of the rules.. But if there is nothing, then many will never learn... probably not going fix this here anyway.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Inside my Mini 3 there were two pieces of paper (one for the EU, one for Australia) stating that regulations applied to flying and giving links and QR codes leading to them.

DJI is not in the paper business. What arrives with the drone is almost nothing and it is printed in gray ink in about 4 pt font. They could easily (I think) make sure you could not fly the drone until you took and passed the Trust Pilot test or some specifications of their own devising.

Yes, for probably several years new DJI (and other) drones in Australia have this (or similar) inside the packaging . . .



^ Thumbnail

Not sure how they get them inside the sealed wrapping, it must be done in the drone factories at time of packaging, or it's somehow inserted and rewrapped here.

Just generic info to point to the main countries airspace authority rules would suffice to make sure people are aware of drones having some forms of control.

It won't stop every pilot behaving badly, but at least authorities can be aware they had an intro to things they need to know to fly safely for all airspace users and people on the ground.

Eventually, they will probably have some sort of point of sale rule to show you have passed TRUST, or similar type basic drone flight test, and KNOW the rules.
Prosecution is then much more likely and successful when such extreme rule breaking is present.

 

[Robert Prior]

Not sure how they get them inside the sealed wrapping, it must be done in the drone factories at time of packaging, or it's somehow inserted and rewrapped here.

Well, I'm in Canada and I had the Australian and European warning, so I assumed that they were included in all Mini 3 boxes. I also assumed that it was either a regulatory requirement or someone at DJI decided that it was a prudent move to limit liability.

It would be a trivial expense to include a sheet of paper stating that drones are regulated in most countries, with links to the relevant authorities in each country. No need to actually specify the regulations (which would actually increase liability), just make certain that the purchaser has been informed that there are requirements that they are responsible for knowing and following.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

No need to actually specify the regulations (which would actually increase liability), just make certain that the purchaser has been informed that there are requirements that they are responsible for knowing and following.

Exactly.
Just a list pointing to the main countries airspace authority website drone landing page, or make a note for other countries to refer to their legislation.
FAA, TC, CAA (at least 2 I know of), EASA

However, a trivial expense to us, would probably be a great impost (cost and time) on a large manufacturer.
Heck, if a car maker can safely delete a bolt in a fender (x2) on each car, they will do it to save a fraction of a cent on each one rolling out the door.

They'd also have to keep track of the correct website info, CASA here have quite a few drone landing pages on their site, some have been made obsolete in recent years, it might take extra effort to be sure it's all correct, possibly a year or more before sale after the packaging in the factory ?

It's a great idea for all drone manufacturers to do this, and yes, it would be seen as a proactive / liabilility limiting act by them.
Good to see you got one with something inside too, even if just the CASA / Euro sheet.
Funny not to at least put FAA link to guidelines on that though.

 

[Robert Prior]

They'd also have to keep track of the correct website info

True.

If the major consumer drone manufacturer contacted Transport Canada requesting a single landing page that wouldn't change so they could point purchasers to it, I'd think that TC would at least have a redirect if they reorganized things. Maybe not, though — that kind of thing is sometimes contracted out and my opinion of external contractors isn't terribly high.

Even a paper stating that drones are regulated and the pilot is responsible — and mentioning the major regulators — would be an advance. But ideally we'd see what the Australians have.

 

[Cecil Webb]

As much as I feel sorry for the two guys I really think they should've been aware of the consequences. I mean common sense alone should be enough to not do such a thing. I only have one question for those guys, "What were you thinking?"

 

[LoudThunder]

While it would be feasible to include country specific material to the countries they export to (possibly attached to the outside of the packaging) or even general rules that all countries pretty much follow on the inside.

You expect too much... In this web site you can read every day about someone who wants to know if they "do-this, or do-that," but not for a direct monetary payment, you know, just an exchange of services... and they ask if they need a part 107 license and when they are told they do, they argue with the respondents

You can take the horse to water but you cannot make it drink, You can tell some folks the rules, but they will do whatever they want no matter what. Because they are "entitled"

You can write all the words in the world, with the best intentions, and some will never read it...

I hate to admit it, but I have distant, remote, several times removed cousin... I think of him as "Low Hanging fruit" on my family tree...

He bought a DJI Mini SE and since he knew I'm into drones, he called me, I gave him my best advice over the phone while his batteries charged and I even emailed him those long instructions I offer every new member who logs onto MP.

Well, he puts it all together, turns everything one and he's so excited, he energizes the motors, just to see the propellers turn, but then his brain stopped working and he gave it full throttle, "just to lift off a bit..."

Well that poor little drone didn't know it was sitting on the dining room table and it ran full throttle into the chandelier over the table. Yeah, he destroyed the drone, broken Gimbal, broken arm or two, and every prop busted, cracked, or chipped…

He also damaged the chandelier (and several broken bulbs…).

And No, he wanted to save some money and did not buy the care refresh…

Unfortunately, Darwin was not fast enough and he has two kids and they are not all that different from their father… His son received a new phone for his birthday and it used a USB-C cable to charge, but that boy managed to cram a Micro-USB into the socket… Then Cuz brags that he took the phone back to the store claiming it was defective…

Which brings me back to his Mini SE, since he did not buy the Care Refresh and did not bother to try to understand it until a week or two later, he then asked me to video tape my drone so he could pass it off as his so he could get the Care Refresh. I told him I wouldn't and not only that, I couldn't, I have a Mini 2 and he "had" an SE, and he could not cheat DJI on this one… I told him to send it back and see what it will cost to repair and at the same time look online for a used one and get the cheaper of the two and just be glad he did not buy a Mini 3 or more expensive drone…

 

[netling]

Sadly, I suspect as the popularity of drones increases we'll see more and more of these reckless events. Like the nimrod who decides to purchase and carry a firearm without a shred of training, too many people look at these drones in less than a serious light.

Earlier this week a co-worker expressed interest in buying one because they "look like fun". Can't argue that point, but when I started to tell him some of the things he needs to do (registration, TRUST, learn about airspace, etc.) he was shocked. I'm pretty sure he's decided to stick to golf but it just illustrated how many people leap before they look.

Just my 2 cents...

I’m now just getting into flying and did my homework. Yesterday on FB someone requested a drone pilot and a guy literally stated, “I fly recreational” and so I posted to him be aware the FAA forbids flying for money, favors, trades, real estate or etc and he went off on me… more and more people are going to fly without a license. I can see where you HAVE TO validate your license to start the drone.

 

[Zeke]

You expect too much... In this web site you can read every day about someone who wants to know if they "do-this, or do-that," but not for a direct monetary payment, you know, just an exchange of services... and they ask if they need a part 107 license and when they are told they do, they argue with the respondents

You can take the horse to water but you cannot make it drink, You can tell some folks the rules, but they will do whatever they want no matter what. Because they are "entitled"

You can write all the words in the world, with the best intentions, and some will never read it...

I hate to admit it, but I have distant, remote, several times removed cousin... I think of him as "Low Hanging fruit" on my family tree...

He bought a DJI Mini SE and since he knew I'm into drones, he called me, I gave him my best advice over the phone while his batteries charged and I even emailed him those long instructions I offer every new member who logs onto MP.

Well, he puts it all together, turns everything one and he's so excited, he energizes the motors, just to see the propellers turn, but then his brain stopped working and he gave it full throttle, "just to lift off a bit..."

Well that poor little drone didn't know it was sitting on the dining room table and it ran full throttle into the chandelier over the table. Yeah, he destroyed the drone, broken Gimbal, broken arm or two, and every prop busted, cracked, or chipped…

He also damaged the chandelier (and several broken bulbs…).

And No, he wanted to save some money and did not buy the care refresh…

Unfortunately, Darwin was not fast enough and he has two kids and they are not all that different from their father… His son received a new phone for his birthday and it used a USB-C cable to charge, but that boy managed to cram a Micro-USB into the socket… Then Cuz brags that he took the phone back to the store claiming it was defective…

Which brings me back to his Mini SE, since he did not buy the Care Refresh and did not bother to try to understand it until a week or two later, he then asked me to video tape my drone so he could pass it off as his so he could get the Care Refresh. I told him I wouldn't and not only that, I couldn't, I have a Mini 2 and he "had" an SE, and he could not cheat DJI on this one… I told him to send it back and see what it will cost to repair and at the same time look online for a used one and get the cheaper of the two and just be glad he did not buy a Mini 3 or more expensive drone…

You can't fix stupid, that's not just a catch phrase. Some people were simply in the wrong line when common sense or brains were being handed out. My ex-son in law is a total idiot, and much like your example, his poor children have no choice but to learn from his (poor) choices and replicate them.

Some people might consider my position cold and uncaring, but I long for the days when society didn't protect people from their own stupidity. Shampoo looks tasty? Well have a big gulp and let us all know how that works out! Taking a bath but want to blow dry your hair at the same time? You bet I'll plug it in for you!

Somewhere along the line people stopped paying the price not for mistakes but for abject stupidity. Nobody drinks shampoo by mistake, you gotta be an idiot - and that mouthful of dandruff shampoo is gonna teach you better than I ever could. And if stupidity kills you? I'm sorry to see you go, but it's best for the collective species to get your brand of thinking out of the gene pool. Stupid prey animals don't get the benefit of warning labels (WARNING - DO NOT SLEEP IN FRONT OF THE LIONS) and as a result their species survives... but we coddle our stupid and get collectively dumber. But I digress... I gotta go eat a Tide Pod now, it just looks tasty!

 

[LoudThunder]

Some people might consider my position cold and uncaring, but I long for the days when society didn't protect people from their own stupidity. Shampoo looks tasty? Well have a big gulp and let us all know how that works out! Taking a bath but want to blow dry your hair at the same time? You bet I'll plug it in for you!

I do not stand apart from you with many, if not all of your feelings and positions. I was good at "Dodge Ball" and no one in any of my gym classes ever died from getting wacked by me. I am a firm believer that what does not kill you makes you stronger.

I am a relative small guy and I played Pop Warner Football as a kid and most kids were larger (taller) and bigger (heavier) than me and I was stuffed more than once and it prepared me for life.

And perhaps the statement I hate the most to hear is, "It was an error in judgement…"

Then when an apology is needed and expected and they say, "I regret…"

And a milder, less responding ditty is, "If you were offended…"

As Tom Hanks immortalized in "Forrest Gump, 'Stupid is as stupid does'." And it does…