Mavic 3 - ?? Maybe Global Shutter (mechanical) ready for Mapping / Modeling possible?

[Dougcjohn]

I've read a few articles that suggested the M3 MFT camera was a Global Shutter (referred as mechanical) similar to the P4Pv2, Inspire 2 X4S & X7 cameras.
The recent 1/24/22 DroneU video on the M3, they performed a Manual Mapping exercise lacking any currently supported Mapping / Waypoint SW that the SDK will allow.
During the manual mapping exercise & software processing, it was confirmed that the M3's MFT Camera via Pix4D does have a Global shutter... like the P4P. I'm assuming it will be similar to P4P & X4S that it's mechanical up to 1/2000s shutter, and Electronic Shutter above. According to DroneU, the images were outstanding, the MFT sensor exceeding expectations.

It's also confirmed that the M3 SDK has been distributed, there are a few Development shops currently developing 3rd Party software that will include Mapping & Modeling.

Looks like the M3 is gaining more ground with time, gaining use for Mapping & Modeling is another welcome feature as SW is developed.

 

[brett8883]

I've read a few articles that suggested the M3 MFT camera was a Global Shutter (referred as mechanical) similar to the P4Pv2, Inspire 2 X4S & X7 cameras.
The recent 1/24/22 DroneU video on the M3, they performed a Manual Mapping exercise lacking any currently supported Mapping / Waypoint SW that the SDK will allow.
During the manual mapping exercise & software processing, it was confirmed that the M3's MFT Camera via Pix4D does have a Global shutter... like the P4P. I'm assuming it will be similar to P4P & X4S that it's mechanical up to 1/2000s shutter, and Electronic Shutter above. According to DroneU, the images were outstanding, the MFT sensor exceeding expectations.

It's also confirmed that the M3 SDK has been distributed, there are a few Development shops currently developing 3rd Party software that will include Mapping & Modeling.

Looks like the M3 is gaining more ground with time, gaining use for Mapping & Modeling is another welcome feature as SW is developed.

The Mavic 3 has a rolling shutter. The most important part of that video that he doesn’t seem to realize is when he clicked on the shutter thing it said “Global or fast readout.” It’s not a global shutter or mechanical shutter but it’s probably pretty fast read out. I’d buy that.

 

[Dougcjohn]

The Mavic 3 has a rolling shutter. The most important part of that video that he doesn’t seem to realize is when he clicked on the shutter thing it said “Global or fast readout.” It’s not a global shutter or mechanical shutter but it’s probably pretty fast read out. I’d buy that.

Interesting, and good catch!
Oddly, I'd be pretty sure he did catch that... interesting why he took it as Global. I'll send him a note to inquire... he has comments off for video..

 

[TLT]

Hi - Trying to get the word out today. I just got confirmation from a DJI rep the M3 Pro will NOT be able to be used for aerial mapping. "The GSPro would not be supporting the M3, the M3 is not Mobile SDK compatible and it does not support waypoint mission." This is HUGELY DISSAPOINTING for anyone expecting this to replace the Phantom 4 Pro line for aerial photogrammetry. Please pass this on. Since it is past 15 days since purchase we are having issues easily returning. DJI is really trending downhill lately.

 

[TLT]

I've read a few articles that suggested the M3 MFT camera was a Global Shutter (referred as mechanical) similar to the P4Pv2, Inspire 2 X4S & X7 cameras.
The recent 1/24/22 DroneU video on the M3, they performed a Manual Mapping exercise lacking any currently supported Mapping / Waypoint SW that the SDK will allow.
During the manual mapping exercise & software processing, it was confirmed that the M3's MFT Camera via Pix4D does have a Global shutter... like the P4P. I'm assuming it will be similar to P4P & X4S that it's mechanical up to 1/2000s shutter, and Electronic Shutter above. According to DroneU, the images were outstanding, the MFT sensor exceeding expectations.

It's also confirmed that the M3 SDK has been distributed, there are a few Development shops currently developing 3rd Party software that will include Mapping & Modeling.

Looks like the M3 is gaining more ground with time, gaining use for Mapping & Modeling is another welcome feature as SW is developed.

Hey there - can you please clarify what shops are developing 3rd party software for mapping/modeling? I just heard directly from a DJI rep that it won't support waypoint missions.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Hey there - can you please clarify what shops are developing 3rd party software for mapping/modeling? I just heard directly from a DJI rep that it won't support waypoint missions.

I'm going from the supplied video... he started he knows some shops working on it.
IN the video.... timeline: 8:49 he indicates shops working on it.

That would be sad if not possible... I'm leaning to the positive.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Hi - Trying to get the word out today. I just got confirmation from a DJI rep the M3 Pro will NOT be able to be used for aerial mapping. "The GSPro would not be supporting the M3, the M3 is not Mobile SDK compatible and it does not support waypoint mission." This is HUGELY DISSAPOINTING for anyone expecting this to replace the Phantom 4 Pro line for aerial photogrammetry. Please pass this on. Since it is past 15 days since purchase we are having issues easily returning. DJI is really trending downhill lately.

Over the years... I've found DJI Reps can have multiple contradictory info. Even recently, some of the updates in last 2 FW updates weren't going to happen... then later stared they would be provided.

 

[brett8883]

Hey there - can you please clarify what shops are developing 3rd party software for mapping/modeling? I just heard directly from a DJI rep that it won't support waypoint missions.

Once the SDK comes out there will certainly be 3rd party apps that support waypoint via joystick mode. However, It is pretty much that DJI doesn’t include native on-board waypoints any more. Honestly DJI is the most frustrating company when it comes to features like this. It’s pretty crazy to think my Mavic Pro circa 2016 has arguably more “useful” features than the Mavic 3 the camera aside.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Hey there - can you please clarify what shops are developing 3rd party software for mapping/modeling? I just heard directly from a DJI rep that it won't support waypoint missions.

Another thought... is it the RC Pro Radio or M3. You indicated M3 Pro, so I wasn't sure which?
It may be the RC Pro may not support Ground Station Pro.

 

[TLT]

Over the years... I've found DJI Reps can have multiple contradictory info. Even recently, some of the updates in last 2 FW updates weren't going to happen... then later stared they would be provided.

Thanks for the reply - I'm going on a blitz trying to get the word out about what I was told.. if anything just to warn people like me that invested in this early with high expectations. If anything I hope it lights a fire under their ***** and wakes them up to the huge market share of aerial mappers that they will be missing out on if they don't support it in GSPro and other mission planning apps. I frustratingly could deal with it in the Fly app... but not being able to use it for photogrammetry... that's a deal breaker on a $3k drone.

 

[TLT]

Another thought... is it the RC Pro Radio or M3. You indicated M3 Pro, so I wasn't sure which?
It may be the RC Pro may not support Ground Station Pro.

I was told the M3 specifically. No mention of RC Pro

 

[Dougcjohn]

Once the SDK comes out there will certainly be 3rd party apps that support waypoint via joystick mode. However, It is pretty much that DJI doesn’t include native on-board waypoints any more. Honestly DJI is the most frustrating company when it comes to features like this. It’s pretty crazy to think my Mavic Pro circa 2016 has arguably more “useful” features than the Mavic 3 the camera aside.

My naivety... aren't on-board waypoints simply SDK coding already referenced within the Flight App. My understanding is the Drone's FW already has the code procedures. If SDK libraries provided to Developers includes the code reference to utilize waypoint references, it's implementing the same procedure calls the native app would perform "IF" it had included the Waypoint coding.

I'm understanding that they've left this functionality out of the APP coding and Developers using SDK could write it into their coding and procedures to the Drones existing Firmware. The SDK libraries would have no value if the Drone's FW didn't already have the coding to interpret the procedures.

 

[brett8883]

My naivety... aren't on-board waypoints simply SDK coding already referenced within the Flight App. My understanding is the Drone's FW already has the code procedures. If SDK libraries provided to Developers includes the code reference to utilize waypoint references, it's implementing the same procedure calls the native app would perform "IF" it had included the Waypoint coding.

I'm understanding that they've left this functionality out of the APP coding and Developers using SDK could write it into their coding and procedures to the Drones existing Firmware. The SDK libraries would have no value if the Drone's FW didn't already have the coding to interpret the procedures.

Yes but the SDk still has “joystick mode” which allows the control app to control aircraft movements virtually and the control app still gets real time GPS coordinate data and height information so, the app can be programmed to fly the drone to the specified waypoint location by the app. Really the only difference is the control app is acting as the flight “navigational computer” instead of the drone’s onboard computer. This of course means the control app has to have constant communication with the drone or else the waypoint mission would be stopped but for things like mapping the drone has to be connected the whole time anyway so it doesn’t make much difference.

There is something cooler and more elegant about uploading the waypoint mission to the drones internal computer and letting it fly itself but practically it has been shown to not make a noticeable difference.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Yes but the SDk still has “joystick mode” which allows the control app to control aircraft movements virtually and the control app still gets real time GPS coordinate data and height information so, the app can be programmed to fly the drone to the specified waypoint location by the app. Really the only difference is the control app is acting as the flight “navigational computer” instead of the drone’s onboard computer. This of course means the control app has to have constant communication with the drone or else the waypoint mission would be stopped but for things like mapping the drone has to be connected the whole time anyway so it doesn’t make much difference.

There is something cooler and more elegant about uploading the waypoint mission to the drones internal computer and letting it fly itself but practically it has been shown to not make a noticeable difference.

I follow you... more autonomous.
I think they've also worked that out in using on-board memory to feed the program (Flight data) to the on-board processor, Kind of a adhoc form.

Apps like MapPilot (MapsMadeEasy) can maintain a flight grid if disconnected for most crafts... since 3D data points take minimum space and RTH is onboard for mission completion. A true waypoint/POI would be difficult disconnected in a complex Litchi Mission.

 

[Dougcjohn]

I exchanged email with DroneU and they indicated Pix4D was not applying the rolling shutter correction function and it's reading the camera and processing the images as a global shutter.

That may be the “Fast Readout” technology that‘s producing an image that‘s equivalent to a Global shutter image. If so, that’s pretty impressive technology in itself to now capture so fast with a rolling shutter it essentially duplicates a global shutter‘s image capture.

 

[surfbird]

My naivety... aren't on-board waypoints simply SDK coding already referenced within the Flight App. My understanding is the Drone's FW already has the code procedures. If SDK libraries provided to Developers includes the code reference to utilize waypoint references, it's implementing the same procedure calls the native app would perform "IF" it had included the Waypoint coding.

I'm understanding that they've left this functionality out of the APP coding and Developers using SDK could write it into their coding and procedures to the Drones existing Firmware. The SDK libraries would have no value if the Drone's FW didn't already have the coding to interpret the procedures.

Why do you think waypoints is in the firmware? Air2 and mini2 didn't have them.
The app uses a layer beneath the sdk, it's possible to use that layer from with older sdk, even if they don't support mavic3, as I did with the mini2.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Why do you think waypoints is in the firmware? Air2 and mini2 didn't have them.
The app uses a layer beneath the sdk, it's possible to use that layer from with older sdk, even if they don't support mavic3, as I did with the mini2.

Why, because if the craft's FW lacks the ability to receive, interpet and process the transmission... it won't work.

A waypoint isn't necessarily a value "WP" within library, it can also be a set of instructions to craft: GPS, Altitude, Compass Direction, speed, etc. If in library, it represents the same values under a simplified procedural call.

Having these data elements in the FW are common, having it in the App or SDK available is normally the holdup to features or added features. If lacking, then it entails a new FW version that includes.

Your comment indirectly states the above... you claim using older SDK library elements / procedure calls worked for you... in some program. You're sending these commands to craft to be processed, and if FW includes those procedures it'll work. The other way, is simply sending the make-up of the procedure as individual calls: Altitude, position, speed, etc.

It's 2 sided... can't send commends unless the receiving side knows how to interpret or enact... that's FW.

So you're stating before DJI provided ability in FW, before 3rd Party had received SDK, you used an older version of DJI SDK and created Waypoints in a independent program App? Interesting.... what app or interface?

 

[surfbird]

Why, because if the craft's FW lacks the ability to receive, interpet and process the transmission... it won't work.

A waypoint isn't necessarily a value "WP" within library, it can also be a set of instructions to craft: GPS, Altitude, Compass Direction, speed, etc. If in library, it represents the same values under a simplified procedural call.

Having these data elements in the FW are common, having it in the App or SDK available is normally the holdup to features or added features. If lacking, then it entails a new FW version that includes.

Your comment indirectly states the above... you claim using older SDK library elements / procedure calls worked for you... in some program. You're sending these commands to craft to be processed, and if FW includes those procedures it'll work. The other way, is simply sending the make-up of the procedure as individual calls: Altitude, position, speed, etc.

It's 2 sided... can't send commends unless the receiving side knows how to interpret or enact... that's FW.

So you're stating before DJI provided ability in FW, before 3rd Party had received SDK, you used an older version of DJI SDK and created Waypoints in a independent program App? Interesting.... what app or interface?

The thing is, dji firmware api is almost identical to all drones. As documented here:

dji-firmware-tools/dji-dumlv1-flyc.lua at master · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools

Tools for handling firmwares of DJI products, with focus on quadcopters. - dji-firmware-tools/dji-dumlv1-flyc.lua at master · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools

github.com

My question is you know for sure waypoints isnt in the firrmware? It will save me some time if you have tested that.
Many functions are not visible in the app or sdk, however they still exist. For example the fpv racing drone supports virtualsticks (and much more), but have no sdk, or app that supports it. And not to forget setting gimbal in free mode

My very basic 3d-mapping with the mini2, without sdk.

Mapping

All I have available is a Mini 2 and I need to create a map of 40 acres. Because there isn't SDK support I'll have to do this manually. Any suggestions on how much overlap I should have for each picture? Software I should use to stitch them together? Any other tips that will help me succeed...

mavicpilots.com

 

[spamgnome]

Interesting, and good catch!
Oddly, I'd be pretty sure he did catch that... interesting why he took it as Global. I'll send him a note to inquire... he has comments off for video..

I saw their video too and TBH, was confused. In a prior video (their podcast where they answer questions) that pretty much dismissed the M3 as a tool for mapping. While in this latest video they seem to depart from that. Yes, DJI will release an SDK, but I've heard from multiple sources that it will never get waypoints capability. I watch Drone U pretty regularly and generally like their content, but this thing with the M3 kind of hurts their credibility in my mind.

 

[TonyPHX]

I saw their video too and TBH, was confused. In a prior video (their podcast where they answer questions) that pretty much dismissed the M3 as a tool for mapping. While in this latest video they seem to depart from that. Yes, DJI will release an SDK, but I've heard from multiple sources that it will never get waypoints capability. I watch Drone U pretty regularly and generally like their content, but this thing with the M3 kind of hurts their credibility in my mind.

I enjoy the DroneU podcasts, but the messages on M3 are definitely confusing. There is no SDK yes for this drone that is publicly available. Maybe they have some knowledge under NDA? I don't know, but it would be nice to just put this issue to bed and have DJI commit to an SDK for the M3.