RID's Day of Reckoning is less than a Month out, will DJI Re-Enable RID in the Mini 2?

[LoudThunder]

When I bought my DJI Mini 2 about 2-years ago, there was an option for Remote Identification at the bottom of the Safety Menu. At the time, I did not open it other than to see the options…



After a couple of updates to the DJI Fly App, the Remote Identification Option was disabled and after a few more updates, the Remote Identification Option even disappeared from the Safety Menu…



Then, about a year ago in August 2022, DJI Fly App Version 1.6.12 came out and it enabled Remote Identification in the Japanese Model of the Mini 2. I know this model is a somewhat different, but I believe it is mainly the smaller battery which weighs less…

So, if we originally had the capability for Remote Identification in the Mini 2 and the Japanese model has it as required by Japanese Law, I do not know why it cannot again be enabled so that those of us who use their Mini 2 in Part 107 Commercial Operations should have to purchase a separate RID module.

Does anyone think DJI will re-enable RID in the Mini 2 for us Part 107 Pilots?

 

[SkyPath Studios]

When I bought my DJI Mini 2 about 2-years ago, there was an option for Remote Identification at the bottom of the Safety Menu. At the time, I did not open it other than to see the options…

View attachment 167434

After a couple of updates to the DJI Fly App, the Remote Identification Option was disabled and after a few more updates, the Remote Identification Option even disappeared from the Safety Menu…

View attachment 167435

Then, about a year ago in August 2022, DJI Fly App Version 1.6.12 came out and it enabled Remote Identification in the Japanese Model of the Mini 2. I know this model is a somewhat different, but I believe it is mainly the smaller battery which weighs less…

So, if we originally had the capability for Remote Identification in the Mini 2 and the Japanese model has it as required by Japanese Law, I do not know why it cannot again be enabled so that those of us who use their Mini 2 in Part 107 Commercial Operations should have to purchase a separate RID module.

Does anyone think DJI will re-enable RID in the Mini 2 for us Part 107 Pilots?

No mini 2 doesn’t need RID.

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

No mini 2 doesn’t need RID.

Unless you are using it commercially, then it does require RID. BTW, the Japanese version of RID is probably different from the US version and is not compatible I would speculate.

 

[mavic3usa]

For the very few who need RID for the Mini 2, I would point them in the direction of an inexpensive, lightweight broadcast module.

DJI has already outfitted Mini 3 with standard RID so the Mini 3 will be current (standalone) sub-250g DJI drone with standard RID. DJI doesn't need two models, why "ruin" the Mini 2 especially since DJI does not manufacture them any longer.

 

[LoudThunder]

No mini 2 doesn’t need RID.

Unless you are using it commercially, then it does require RID. BTW, the Japanese version of RID is probably different from the US version and is not compatible I would speculate.

I would point them in the direction of an inexpensive, lightweight broadcast module.

As I wrote, it would be for those of us using it commercially… As for a Lightweight Broadcast Module, well, that just pushes the limits when you are already using a Lightweight Strobe…

As for "why 'ruin' the Mini 2", the capability was already there. The Japanese model may be different and the firmware might also be a bit different to keep the drone within the legal requirements of the Japanese rules.

But I again point out that when DJI Fly App Version 1.6.12 came out and it enabled Remote Identification in the Japanese Model of the Mini 2; that version also uploaded onto all of our US drones and it operated just fine… So there must be some internal firmware "switch" that distinguishes the two versions…

DJI may be hoping that the Mini 3 will replace the 2 as a lightweight drone for commercial use, but the Mini 2 will be around for years to come…

BTW, what constitutes and "inexpensive" RID Module?

 

[mavic3usa]

As for "why 'ruin' the Mini 2", the capability was already there. The Japanese model may be different and the firmware might also be a bit different to keep the drone within the legal requirements of the Japanese rules.

Many recreational Mini 3 flyers are disappointed they are being "forced" to comply with RID when they are not required. I understand why DJI would continue to build Mini 3 and comply with their obligations but I wouldn't exactly understand why they would go back and affect their legacy customers. Let's say there are 999,000 Mini 2 recreational flyers and 1,000 Mini 2 commercial flyer in service....please tell me one reason why DJI would benefit from pushing RID to a million Mini 2 drones rather than leave it exactly the way it is right now?

 

[LoudThunder]

please tell me one reason why DJI would benefit from pushing RID to a million Mini 2 drones rather than leave it exactly the way it is right now?

Did I forget to mention that the Mini 2 use to have this feature. Oh, that's right, I did mention it and in the graphics I included, you can see that it is a feature that could be enabled or not… So those of you who are against it, could turn it off and those of us that use our drones commercially, there would be no additional cost to remain legal…

Since I do not have a Mini 3, I do not know if the RID is an enable/disable option or not for those flying the light-weight battery for Recreational purposes…

 

[mavic3usa]

Did I forget to mention that the Mini 2 use to have this feature. Oh, that's right, I did mention it and in the graphics I included, you can see that it is a feature that could be enabled or not… So those of you who are against it, could turn it off and those of us that use our drones commercially, there would be no additional cost to remain legal…

Since I do not have a Mini 3, I do not know if the RID is an enable/disable option or not for those flying the light-weight battery for Recreational purposes…

Yes you mentioned it. While the Mini 2 has some identification capability built in, it never had the capability that is required to be certified as standard remote ID by the FAA. I have no problem with them turning on whatever it is that was turned off but you have to know, if DJI does turn it on, you will not get an FAA DoC for RID. If I understand you correctly, if they "enable" it, you still cannot fly commercially and it is likely you'll be unable to register the RID #. I could be wrong but it's complicated and even I don't understand all the details.

At this point, I am unable to speak to the specifics regarding this feature you refer to (but I am generally aware of it and what it does so it won't be necessary to post menus and settings, etc.) or what DJI plans are for it and how it relates to Japan RID but any mechanism that can be turned on and off will not qualify as standard RID and again, will not be granted DoC. Perhaps that is why DJI has opted not to do the extra work that is required above and beyond what is already there and what was done for Japan. And just to clarify just in case I didn't point this out earlier, even if DJI turned this feature on permanently, it likely still does not meet the minimum requirements, for example preventing take-off if there is a malfunction. The Mini 3 does not have an enable/disable not only because I haven't see that switch in the settings but also because it wouldn't qualify for standard RID if it had one. If you fly the Mini 3 for recreational or if you fly the Mini 3 with the light battery and you have the latest firmware, you have standard RID (in America).

I feel your pain, it sounds like you would prefer the avoid the additional costs, and for sure mounting a device on top of all the other devices already on your drone is not desirable. Not sure what to tell you other than I haven't seen the Mini 2 listed in the DJI future plans. However, I see a few other DJI drones that appear to have a higher priority but you never know if DJI might surprise us. There are literally dozens of other drone options available today and even with the onset of government rules and regulations so many disagree with, it's not impossible to find something that suits most of our needs.

 

[LoudThunder]

My understanding is that the RID in an RID enabled Drone would probably be its Serial Number or one assigned by DJI… Just as a separate RID module would have a unique ID Number.

And what is the issue of being able to enable it or disable it? A separate RID module must be turned on (enabled…) for it to work and I've seen several YouTube videos of RID "naysayers" who have proposed putting the module on their dog's collar…

There is even an underground movement to sell fake RID modules that looks like they are working and blink and all, but actually send out no information. If you ride motorcycles then you are probably aware of helmets that do not meet any of the safety requirements and are often referred to as "coconuts." And there is an underground market for fake "Snell, DOT, etc…" certification stickers to put on those helmets…

If the pilot is using a fake RID module or has "Hacked" their drone, then let Karen try to find you and what would the police do, they probably would not be running around with certified tracking equipment… A FREE App downloaded from the web could not be used against you…

As for the Japanese RID requirement, Here is the Link to the English version of the Japanese rules concerning RID.

https://www.mlit.go.jp/koku/drone/assets/pdf/mlit_HB_web_en_2022.pdf

"The RID contains static information such as the serial number and a registration ID of the Unmanned Aircraft, and dynamic information such as location, speed, altitude, and time, and the transmission cycle is once every second. It does not include information about the owner or user."

They also have much the same rules as the US, but as you can see they do not require disclosing the pilot's location. They even have their own version of a FAA-Recognized Identification Area (FRIA) where one can fly RID free…

I know, that many commercial drone pilots are using drones with RID capability or are using expensive non-compliant drones and they will have to buy a separate RID module to maintain a legal operation.

I am just one of the many Mini 2 users who would prefer not to have to buy a separate module… But just maybe, my protestations here and on the DJI Forum might just inspire DJI to say, let's reactive it and keep the customers happy, it really costs very little…

 

[mavic3usa]

My understanding is that the RID in an RID enabled Drone would probably be its Serial Number or one assigned by DJI… Just as a separate RID module would have a unique ID Number.

And what is the issue of being able to enable it or disable it? A separate RID module must be turned on (enabled…) for it to work and I've seen several YouTube videos of RID "naysayers" who have proposed putting the module on their dog's collar…

There is even an underground movement to sell fake RID modules that looks like they are working and blink and all, but actually send out no information. If you ride motorcycles then you are probably aware of helmets that do not meet any of the safety requirements and are often referred to as "coconuts." And there is an underground market for fake "Snell, DOT, etc…" certification stickers to put on those helmets…

If the pilot is using a fake RID module or has "Hacked" their drone, then let Karen try to find you and what would the police do, they probably would not be running around with certified tracking equipment… A FREE App downloaded from the web could not be used against you…

As for the Japanese RID requirement, Here is the Link to the English version of the Japanese rules concerning RID.

https://www.mlit.go.jp/koku/drone/assets/pdf/mlit_HB_web_en_2022.pdf

"The RID contains static information such as the serial number and a registration ID of the Unmanned Aircraft, and dynamic information such as location, speed, altitude, and time, and the transmission cycle is once every second. It does not include information about the owner or user."

They also have much the same rules as the US, but as you can see they do not require disclosing the pilot's location. They even have their own version of a FAA-Recognized Identification Area (FRIA) where one can fly RID free…

I know, that many commercial drone pilots are using drones with RID capability or are using expensive non-compliant drones and they will have to buy a separate RID module to maintain a legal operation.

I am just one of the many Mini 2 users who would prefer not to have to buy a separate module… But just maybe, my protestations here and on the DJI Forum might just inspire DJI to say, let's reactive it and keep the customers happy, it really costs very little…

I don't know what to tell you Thunder except the rule is no ability for the drone to take off unless RID is active and error-free and no ability to turn it off in flight. However, they made one exception: if you utilize a broadcast module. This was done to make the broadcast module possible since it wouldn't have to be integrated into the drone's electronics and the FAA knows they will only have to put up with this exception for several years (or whenever they decide to rescind).

I can't speak to all the different arrangement drone flyers plan to make in order to comply but if you have some time to spare, I suggest you take a look at this thread and watch the seminar to see if there is anything you might gain from the discussion they had earlier this week:

Pro Tips for UAS - Ramp Check for drones? Plus Remote ID Updates - FAASafety.gov

FAASTeam Safer Skies Through Education "Pro Tips for UAS - Ramp Check for drones? Plus Remote ID Updates" Topic: Drone Tips for Law Enforcement, Prepare for UAS Ramp Check, Remote ID and Part 89 Rules On Wednesday, August 23, 2023, at 19:00 Central Daylight Time (17:00 PDT; 18:00 MDT; 20:00...

mavicpilots.com

 

[LoudThunder]

I do not have an issue with RID, I actually endorse all the features except including the pilot's location… However, I bought a RID capable drone. Granted, the RID rules had not yet been established, but DJI decided to disable it rather than make it compliant, that is my issue...

For me to remain compliant it is not the FAA's fault that I will have to get a module, it is DJI's business decision... It might be that the Mini 2 does not have the "equipment" to comply, then I really have nothing to complain about. DJI made a guess, they were wrong and they cannot upgrade the drone. But it also could be a DJI decision to make the MINI 2 obsolete to advance the sale of the Mini 3…

 

[mavic3usa]

I do not have an issue with RID, I actually endorse all the features except including the pilot's location… However, I bought a RID capable drone. Granted, the RID rules had not yet been established, but DJI decided to disable it rather than make it compliant, that is my issue...

For me to remain compliant it is not the FAA's fault that I will have to get a module, it is DJI's business decision... It might be that the Mini 2 does not have the "equipment" to comply, then I really have nothing to complain about. DJI made a guess, they were wrong and they cannot upgrade the drone. But it also could be a DJI decision to make the MINI 2 obsolete to advance the sale of the Mini 3…

Not sure when you bought the drone but if someone sold you the Mini 2 as a "FAA RID capable drone" then you need to get your money back; no wonder you feel deceived. Perhaps you missed this part but I can tell you again what I think: It's not going to help you not even one bit if DJI decides to re-enable it whatever it is you claimed was disabled because it still won't make your drone FAA compliant.

If DJI turns it on tomorrow, you are still cannot legally fly the drone commercially on the standard RID plan. But you keep insisting you want it so it sounds to me like you plan to fly anyway and then claim "you have RID" even if you don't have true compliance. If that's your goal, good luck with that.

You are correct, it's a DJI business decision. If I were at DJI, I would likely make the same decision. Not enough commercial usage on Mini 2, difficult to gain DoC because there are so many Mini 2 models, have to start a new Mini 2 RID project, older smart controller with RID is a super pain, already reached internal company goal to have 8 out of 10 models RID compliant by 2024, other more important drones ahead of Mini 2, no pressure from the FAA because we shutdown manufacturing over a year ago. To me, that's an hard NO. Know what isn't on that list? "Can't be done" because yeah, it likely can be done. Know what else isn't on that list? Advance the sale of Mini 3; why? Because DJI sells every Mini 3 they can possibly make. no RID on Mini 2 = no new Mini 3 sales (zero gain). In fact, no RID on Mini 2 probably means a ton more Mini 2 sales from a million more people who *don't* want RID. We plan to re-start the Mini 2 refurb process in anticipation of a small surge in the RID-less sub 250g segment.

Agree with you, if you can round up your commercial Mini 2 drone friends and have a loud voice, you could be heard. Maybe I'm way off base....

BTW, if this RID sw for the Mini 2 comes out, I plan to forgo the update. I would like to keep at least one sub-250g without RID and I think the drone without RID will have slightly higher resale value.

 

[LoudThunder]

This morning, DJI Support provided me with the answers I have concerning the "RID" capability that was built into the Mini 2 prior to Sept 2022. The RID was for Aeroscope tracking and was a user On/Off Option… It is not transmitted on WiFi as the FAA RID requirement mandates so it is not compliant with the new FAA RID requirements scheduled to go into effect on 16 Sept 2023…

Here is a link to DJI's most recent reference to the RID Capable Drones…

Remote ID Statement (07/01/2023)

DJI, the global leader in civilian drones and creative camera technology, is dedicated to providing our valued customers with important updates regarding compliance with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA)remote identification (remote ID) regulation. Remote ID refers to a drone's...

forum.dji.com

So, I guess I had better start window shopping for a RID Module for my little bird…

 

[tlyons]

Did I forget to mention that the Mini 2 use to have this feature. Oh, that's right, I did mention it and in the graphics I included, you can see that it is a feature that could be enabled or not… So those of you who are against it, could turn it off and those of us that use our drones commercially, there would be no additional cost to remain legal…

Since I do not have a Mini 3, I do not know if the RID is an enable/disable option or not for those flying the light-weight battery for Recreational

I do not have an issue with RID, I actually endorse all the features except including the pilot's location… However, I bought a RID capable drone. Granted, the RID rules had not yet been established, but DJI decided to disable it rather than make it compliant, that is my issue...

For me to remain compliant it is not the FAA's fault that I will have to get a module, it is DJI's business decision... It might be that the Mini 2 does not have the "equipment" to comply, then I really have nothing to complain about. DJI made a guess, they were wrong and they cannot upgrade the drone. But it also could be a DJI decision to make the MINI 2 obsolete to advance the sale of the Mini 3…

Legally, RID cannot be turned on and off. I don't believe its an obsolescence thing rather that once a UAV has its RID turned on it must stay on; why burden all the 249g hobbyist Mini 2's with that? It also allows the people who want anonymity to still fly a DJI drone legally.

(89.110: Federal Register :: Request Access)

 

[LoudThunder]

Hope you don't mind, but I feel like teasing a bit…

Legally, RID cannot be turned on and off.

Oh but it can be and even must be turned On or Off, Legally…

If a drone (after 16 September 2023) is required to transmit RID, because it weighs more than 250 grams and you are flying recreationally or any drone, no matter what its weight, is flown in a commercial operations and the drone is not RID enabled, then it must use a RID module.

The RID Module is "turned On" at the beginning of the flight or mission and must remain on during the entire flight. When the flight or mission is over, you must turn off the RID Module, it's all in the rules…

Now, I do not want or endorse RID for sub 240 gram drones flown recreationally. I said that I will have to start shopping for a RID Module because I fly under both my recreational registration and my Part 107 license…

As an example, just for me to fly in my own yard, I must submit my FAA Authorization under my Part 107 License..

Here is what my flying area looks like…