Time for goodbye to DJI?

[MaviCam]

I think it boils down to having to go hat in hand to DJI every time that company decides you shouldn’t be flying.

Imagine having to approach Ford each time you wanted to drive near a certain area.

This is the best post in the thread.

 

[sar104]

This is the best post in the thread.

If only it were also, in any way, comparable or relevant.

 

[Unknown Pilot]

If only it were also, in any way, comparable or relevant.

So DJI doesn't have final say where you can fly? You don't have to ask them, DJI that is, permission to fly in certain areas? This is not the government restricting you, it's a company, at their own discretion.

And how is your car manufacturer telling you where you can and cannot drive not comparable to DJI doing the very same thing?

 

[Deleted member 93449]

So DJI doesn't have final say where you can fly?

As far as I know the way they system is set-up now you don't fly even with FAA authorization if DJI doesn't unlock the drone.

 

[Unknown Pilot]

As far as I know the way they system is set-up now you don't fly even with FAA authorization if DJI doesn't unlock the drone.

It's only though DJI's benevolence that you get to fly at all.

 

[sar104]

So DJI doesn't have final say where you can fly? You don't have to ask them, DJI that is, permission to fly in certain areas? This is not the government restricting you, it's a company, at their own discretion.

And how is your car manufacturer telling you where you can and cannot drive not comparable to DJI doing the very same thing?

DJI has implemented two procedures:

1. A self-unlock system, which is simply a process to ensure that the user is fully aware of of airspace issues. You are neither requesting nor receiving permission to fly in those areas.
2. A custom unlock system, which applies mostly to LAANC zero height grids and other FAA restricted areas. You are not asking DJI for. permission, you are demonstrating that you have authorization to fly in those locations.

Your analogy would be appropriate if there were driving restrictions equivalent to airspace restrictions.

 

[Unknown Pilot]

DJI has implemented two procedures:

1. A self-unlock system, which is simply a process to ensure that the user is fully aware of of airspace issues. You are neither requesting nor receiving permission to fly in those areas.
2. A custom unlock system, which applies mostly to LAANC zero height grids and other FAA restricted areas. You are not asking DJI for. permission, you are demonstrating that you have authorization to fly in those locations.

Your analogy would be appropriate if there were driving restrictions equivalent to airspace restrictions.

Can DJI prevent you from flying? Seems to me that's asking them for permission.

Furthermore they apply their own set of rules globally (try to keep in mind that 95% of the world's population lives outside of the US and doesn't fall under LAANAC or FAA regs) independently of local regulations.

So yeah, DJI alone determines whether you get to fly or not. Something to keep in mind next time your drone goes light on the skids

 

[DanMan32]

Actually, DJI's zones do fit pretty close to FAA facilities Maps.

 

[sar104]

Can DJI prevent you from flying? Seems to me that's asking them for permission.

Furthermore they apply their own set of rules globally (try to keep in mind that 95% of the world's population lives outside of the US and doesn't fall under LAANAC or FAA regs) independently of local regulations.

So yeah, DJI alone determines whether you get to fly or not. Something to keep in mind next time your drone goes light on the skids

If you cannot see (or more likely don't want to see) the simple logical distinction then I can't help you. Obviously it's far more satisfying to continue to feel aggrieved and keep complaining.

 

[Unknown Pilot]

If you cannot see (or more likely don't want to see) the simple logical distinction then I can't help you. Obviously it's far more satisfying to continue to feel aggrieved and keep complaining.

You get to fly only if DJI says it's ok to do so. Why wouldn't you complain?

 

[AntDX316]

If you can get a more cinematic experience with something else, then get it but if not DJI is the way to go. They have refined the ways of looking cinematic. It doesn't matter if all your camera equipment is great but if it cannot flow right, it sucks. Look at the Mausoleum videos I've shot at www.elitecaptures7.com at the top. You can't really do retakes. You cannot impress the client if it looks bad. You cannot tell them what to do. You just have to observe and get it right the first time or you won't get another job.

I have realized from using and seeing many things that it is better to get refined equipment. The days of making stuff from absolute scratch are gone. The better the refinement, the better You look and the more you can charge given you have the personality to work it to its potentials. If I just improv and film naturally, the post-production comes out great. Maybe with planning, it would be better but I'm learning.

 

[DoomMeister]

We all have our experiences and our opinions that are formed by them. I can see that you had some very frustrating and discouraging attempts at flying where you should have been allowed to fly (based on your LAANC authorization). However I am sure that looking at the big picture we can also see the other side of the story. We all want to keep the skies safe for everyone. We don't want everyone to be able to start up a drone and fly in controlled airspace, and certainly not in a zero foot grid.

So DJI imposes these limits which YES can be very frustrating and YES can sometimes prevent totally legal flights. I think what needs to happen to make this process cleaner and more foolproof is to have LAANC authorization built into GO 4. That way if you get LAANC authorization then it lets you fly. DJI is already an authorized LAANC provider so why they haven't already done this is beyond me, It just makes sense.

Until that happens, all I can say is that it just requires more planning. Instead of a self-unlock go with a custom unlock. That way you provide the documentation to DJI in advance and know for sure that your unlock is approved. Also am I reading this correctly that you performed the self-unlock procedure on-site each time? I would never depend on that. I would always do the unlock at home in advance and download the unlock file to the craft. I always try to be over-prepared. It takes a little more time and planning but I can say that I have never been locked out of a flight where I had been approved to fly.

So you are saying that you think a Chinese company that gives information to the Chinese government any time on their request should be an USS with access to the LAANC authorization system for US airspace?

Sorry but that is not a good thing at all IMO. Vetting US based companies for government work is bad enough. There is no way I want DJI having their fingers in the LAANC cookie jar!

 

[sar104]

You get to fly only if DJI says it's ok to do so. Why wouldn't you complain?

No - I get to fly wherever it is legal to fly simply by going through the unlock process. A process that ensures no one can claim they didn't know where they were not authorized to fly and, in the most restricted cases, are unable to fly without authorization. I like that - it deters and, in some cases prevents, the reckless flying that many people both demonstrate and aspire to on these forums.

 

[sar104]

So you are saying that you think a Chinese company that gives information to the Chinese government any time on their request should be an USS with access to the LAANC authorization system for US airspace?

Sorry but that is not a good thing at all IMO. Vetting US based companies for government work is bad enough. There is no way I want DJI having their fingers in the LAANC cookie jar!

Since it's the flying, rather than the authorizing, that matters, I can't see any particular problems with allowing DJI apps direct access to the LAANC system.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

If you cannot see (or more likely don't want to see) the simple logical distinction then I can't help you. Obviously it's far more satisfying to continue to feel aggrieved and keep complaining.

No logical distinction. The minute I get authorization from the FAA to fly I should be able to fly. It doesn't matter if I have to wait 10 days, 10 hours or 10 seconds for DJI to provide the unlock if I have to wait for them to do something for me to fly I am fundamentally waiting for their permission to fly.

 

[Unknown Pilot]

No - I get to fly wherever it is legal to fly simply by going through the unlock process. A process that ensures no one can claim they didn't know where they were not authorized to fly and, in the most restricted cases, are unable to fly without authorization. I like that - it deters and, in some cases prevents, the reckless flying that many people both demonstrate and aspire to on these forums.

Really? Because I can "simply" go through the unlock process and fly in areas where it is still illegal to fly. Heck - I can knowingly fly in areas that DJI doesn't even flag as no fly zones. Remember, we aren't all under the jurisdiction of the FAA, even if we do answer to DJI.

You fly, or don't fly, at DJI's discretion. As unlikely as it sounds they could decide the whole of the North American continent is a NFZ tomorrow and you would be forced to hack your own property in order to fly.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Really? Because I can "simply" go through the unlock process and fly in areas where it is still illegal to fly. Heck - I can knowingly fly in areas that DJI doesn't even flag as no fly zones. Remember, we aren't all under the jurisdiction of the FAA, even if we do answer to DJI.

You fly, or don't fly, at DJI's discretion. As unlikely as it sounds they could decide the whole of the North American continent is a NFZ tomorrow and you would be forced to hack your own property in order to fly.

It sounds very unlikely. DJI are in the business of selling drones. You might find their would be no restrictions from DJI’s side absent the need for them to work with regulators and engineer their product to provide comfort that operation in restricted areas without approval is precluded in some circumstances. It is also obvious that self unlocks demonstrate the operator is aware of the potential risks/consequences and has made a conscious decision to proceed with the flight.

Provide an instance where a self unlock is required or flight is not possible that doesn’t align with the circumstances and you have a legitimate gripe. I have been in that position and was pleased to learn that DJI made the appropriate modification the the NFZ database once it was brought to their attention.

 

[LeRoytheBoy]

Cya

If I had a $15000 contract, I think I’d be investing in something more significant than a Mavic. But maybe that’s just me.

And what brand and model would that be ????

 

[Donnie Frank]

Well folks, while fun as a toy, I am finding the DJI Mavic 2 Pro and Smart Controller for actual paid work in my business to be an epic fail, I am very very close to selling it all and cutting my losses.

Up until I ordered my DJI setup in early August, I had been sub contracting out drone pilots to provide that avenue of content creation on various commercial jobs. I had refrained from getting one my self because I did not feel the image quality and still camera ability was quite up to par in the price point I was looking to spend.
A big part of the reason for getting the M2P and associated accessories *and* my P107 cert was a fairly important job that has since passed as of yesterday. Basically it was to be a series of aerial images made for a world famous architect of a both a finished building and a proposed site, the former in a 50AGL NFZ and latter in a 0 AGL NFZ that I am able to easily get LAANC approval through Skyward.

Out of 18 planned flights over a two week period, I managed to fly three batteries on two days. The rest of the time DJI’s horrendous self unlock protocols via the smart controller simply locked us out, we missed SO MANY prime time slots for getting this content it was disgusting. The client while super frustrated like I was understood and has heard from several people this is becoming a bigger issue with the newer models of DJI drones. But even though this client understood, they are not paying for what they don’t have so I am out $15,000 because of this POS toy!

I invested my time into getting my P107, learning how to fly responsibly and to do everything right and this company has done nothing but let me down. NLD says they are working on a patch that could get the FW back down to the one where I can at least apply the NFZ patch but it is still an unknown at this time.

So in the meantime, I have completely wasted my time, effort and money on this toy. I’m beyond pissed and someone is probably going to get a great deal on a M2P, SC and a bunch of accessories.

What an absolute POS company and a joke of a product.

Brother, I feel your pain. Fortunately, I have been at the forefront of DJI's Naziware and therefore WELL ahead of them. I use legacy EVERYTHING to keep my birds in the air without DJI's constant micromanagement. And their support portals, while almost always available, are nothing more than housewives reading a script. And without an Enterprise support portal, those of us COUNTING on these machines are pretty much on our own.

Though I've never used NLD, that seems like a good way to go. It would be nice if there were an AMERICAN drone company we could use, but I imagine they'd probably be even worse that DJI in "working with the FAA." Maddening.

I presently own and use a Mavic Pro (for phun and real estate), a P4P (for mapping) and an Inspire 1 with X3 camera for construction progress videos. I haven't done any "creative" work for a while, which is fine with me. The film industry demands RAW these days, and I'll be damned if I'm going to purchase an Inspire 2. I may mount an X5R on my Inspire 1 and an M600 Pro for longer shots, but that's a BIG "maybe."

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

The real solution for shutting DJI out of one's work flow is to blow away the NFZ database. I haven't needed to do that at this point, but it's on my list of stuff to do. While I can fly any of my drones anywhere I wish without DJI's Naziware, Intelligent Flight Modes (read: waypoint flights) are still limited. I can't program mapping missions if I'm within 1 mile of Class B, C, or D airspace. At this point, this has only been a problem 1 time at a remote Class D airport. The mission was small enough that I flew it manually. But if I ever get a 100+ acre job in controlled airspace, I'm going to need that NFZ hack.

D