Where CAN you fly, UK. And birds.

mreco99 · Apr 14, 2024

Searches on google for that, all start with Where can you fly, then just tell you where you cant fly.
Flyable Air space is pretty well documented and followable. but TOAL (take off and landing, for people like me who didnt know what that meant), is a whole other point, ive yet to find useful help.
In theory, it looks like you cant TOAL on a rural footpaths, bridle ways, byways (OS maps), as they are only allowable rights of way for travelling through, not stopping, ie having a picnic, or a BBQ. Although I suspect dronies do use these anyway. That was my plan anyway.
I bet you cant TOAL on a road or a road footpath?
Fields and everywhere else is owned by someone, even 'common land' is actually owned by someone. public parks seem ok, but thats not ideal with people around.
Any tips especially UK'ers welcome.

Another point, birds. Im a bird lover like most photographers. But when I read ' cant fly a drone near here, birds might be nesting' , I cant help but be bemused. Nesting season is considered Feb to Aug, different birds nest different times.

What about this list of things that a nesting bird might hear near by
Traffic (lorries down lanes, cars with most of the exhaust chopped off, Motorbikes), you can hear 300m away.
Petrol mowers
Planes (I regularly hear RAF jets dog fighting, low flying Hercules, Osprey flying in circles), noises and rumbles you can hear from literally miles away.
Dogs barking
Farm machinery
Auditory bird Scarers in fields (up to 4 times an hour, no mention of nesting birds in the code of practise)
Country Shooting, hunts, and packs of hounds.
And i'm talking county living, not in town.
Is a sub 250g drone really a valid target for this?

mini 4 pro 1.5m up 67db, and for 95% of the time its a wee bit higher than 1.5m
Petrol mower 80db
Jet fighter about 115db at 1000feet.
Bird scarer maybe up to 100db

Conservative Nihilist · Apr 14, 2024

I use a plastic picnic table as my landing pad. This table can be set up in seconds in tall grass. The table disassembles in seconds and fits in the back of my Jeep.

Felix le Chat · Apr 14, 2024

mreco99 said:
Searches on google for that, all start with Where can you fly, then just tell you where you cant fly.
Flyable Air space is pretty well documented and followable. but TOAL (take off and landing, for people like me who didnt know what that meant), is a whole other point, ive yet to find useful help.
In theory, it looks like you cant TOAL on a rural footpaths, bridle ways, byways (OS maps), as they are only allowable rights of way for travelling through, not stopping, ie having a picnic, or a BBQ. Although I suspect dronies do use these anyway. That was my plan anyway.
I bet you cant TOAL on a road or a road footpath?
Fields and everywhere else is owned by someone, even 'common land' is actually owned by someone. public parks seem ok, but thats not ideal with people around.
Any tips especially UK'ers welcome.

Another point, birds. Im a bird lover like most photographers. But when I read ' cant fly a drone near here, birds might be nesting' , I cant help but be bemused. Nesting season is considered Feb to Aug, different birds nest different times.

What about this list of things that a nesting bird might hear near by
Traffic (lorries down lanes, cars with most of the exhaust chopped off, Motorbikes), you can hear 300m away.
Petrol mowers
Planes (I regularly hear RAF jets dog fighting, low flying Hercules, Osprey flying in circles), noises and rumbles you can hear from literally miles away.
Dogs barking
Farm machinery
Auditory bird Scarers in fields (up to 4 times an hour, no mention of nesting birds in the code of practise)
Country Shooting, hunts, and packs of hounds.
And i'm talking county living, not in town.
Is a sub 250g drone really a valid target for this?

mini 4 pro 1.5m up 67db, and for 95% of the time its a wee bit higher than 1.5m
Petrol mower 80db
Jet fighter about 115db at 1000feet.
Bird scarer maybe up to 100db

The age you are: you might be aware of the story about the Oozlem bird - that strange species that runs itself round in ever decreasing circles until it disappears up its own fundamental orifice. Flying a drone in the UK is getting to feel like a frighteningly similar experience with us trying not to piss anyone off... on top of that we have to add the rights of our little feathered and furred friends into the equation without the RSPCA/RSPB hit-squad coming round to sort things out with environmentally friendly pickaxe handles. This 'respect-the-nesting-habits' routine has now resulted in me ending up with a privet hedge that you could hide a brontosaurus in and I too am utterly bewildered as to why your average spuggie that lives in a hedge bordering an industrial estate next to the M6/M42 interchange might be put off his stroke by the distant whining buzz of a mini 3/4 pro for about 20 minutes out of his day.
Instead of driving myself increasingly scatological worrying about the 'rights' of others' who, when the boot is on the other foot, will quite happily put it right on the back of my neck in insisting that their rights are far more important than mine, I now choose to get on with capturing whatever scene I set out to photograph before I pack up - get back in my car and head off to the next location.
While most people think that a lot of local councils have their borough and parish boundaries sewn up like Stalagluft 17, it is a fact that the vast majority of Borough and parish/town councils in the UK still do not have a coherent OR enforceable 'drone policy' written into their bye-laws. If you use your common-sense and avoid the obvious (flying or hovering over roads, railways or motorways, flying in public parks with people around, using obviously private land for TOAL without permission), 9 times out of 10 you will have undertaken your flight without anyone being any the wiser for it and what the eye doesn't see: the heart rarely grieves over.
Just make sure you have thoroughly read, understood and abide by the CAA guidelines, make sure that where you fly is not restricted airspace in accordance with the NATS database and that you have everything that DMARES compliance might require right there in your pocket (DMARES CAP1974).

Pacefast · Apr 15, 2024

mreco99 said:
Searches on google for that, all start with Where can you fly, then just tell you where you cant fly.
Flyable Air space is pretty well documented and followable. but TOAL (take off and landing, for people like me who didnt know what that meant), is a whole other point, ive yet to find useful help.
In theory, it looks like you cant TOAL on a rural footpaths, bridle ways, byways (OS maps), as they are only allowable rights of way for travelling through, not stopping, ie having a picnic, or a BBQ. Although I suspect dronies do use these anyway. That was my plan anyway.
I bet you cant TOAL on a road or a road footpath?
Fields and everywhere else is owned by someone, even 'common land' is actually owned by someone. public parks seem ok, but thats not ideal with people around.
Any tips especially UK'ers welcome.

Another point, birds. Im a bird lover like most photographers. But when I read ' cant fly a drone near here, birds might be nesting' , I cant help but be bemused. Nesting season is considered Feb to Aug, different birds nest different times.

What about this list of things that a nesting bird might hear near by
Traffic (lorries down lanes, cars with most of the exhaust chopped off, Motorbikes), you can hear 300m away.
Petrol mowers
Planes (I regularly hear RAF jets dog fighting, low flying Hercules, Osprey flying in circles), noises and rumbles you can hear from literally miles away.
Dogs barking
Farm machinery
Auditory bird Scarers in fields (up to 4 times an hour, no mention of nesting birds in the code of practise)
Country Shooting, hunts, and packs of hounds.
And i'm talking county living, not in town.
Is a sub 250g drone really a valid target for this?

mini 4 pro 1.5m up 67db, and for 95% of the time its a wee bit higher than 1.5m
Petrol mower 80db
Jet fighter about 115db at 1000feet.
Bird scarer maybe up to 100db

I have just got back from Spain ! Near the Rock with Seagulls was a night mare at one time I had 10 seagulls circling the drone and maybe 1000 over the rock ! Even tourists walking being attacked ! Away from the rock as in the video they still appear ! Best way out is to climb vertically ! They cannot keep pace with the Air 3 in a climb

EmsAir · Jun 9, 2024

mreco99 said:
Searches on google for that, all start with Where can you fly, then just tell you where you cant fly.
Flyable Air space is pretty well documented and followable. but TOAL (take off and landing, for people like me who didnt know what that meant), is a whole other point, ive yet to find useful help.
In theory, it looks like you cant TOAL on a rural footpaths, bridle ways, byways (OS maps), as they are only allowable rights of way for travelling through, not stopping, ie having a picnic, or a BBQ. Although I suspect dronies do use these anyway. That was my plan anyway.
I bet you cant TOAL on a road or a road footpath?
Fields and everywhere else is owned by someone, even 'common land' is actually owned by someone. public parks seem ok, but thats not ideal with people around.
Any tips especially UK'ers welcome.

Another point, birds. Im a bird lover like most photographers. But when I read ' cant fly a drone near here, birds might be nesting' , I cant help but be bemused. Nesting season is considered Feb to Aug, different birds nest different times.

What about this list of things that a nesting bird might hear near by
Traffic (lorries down lanes, cars with most of the exhaust chopped off, Motorbikes), you can hear 300m away.
Petrol mowers
Planes (I regularly hear RAF jets dog fighting, low flying Hercules, Osprey flying in circles), noises and rumbles you can hear from literally miles away.
Dogs barking
Farm machinery
Auditory bird Scarers in fields (up to 4 times an hour, no mention of nesting birds in the code of practise)
Country Shooting, hunts, and packs of hounds.
And i'm talking county living, not in town.
Is a sub 250g drone really a valid target for this?

mini 4 pro 1.5m up 67db, and for 95% of the time its a wee bit higher than 1.5m
Petrol mower 80db
Jet fighter about 115db at 1000feet.
Bird scarer maybe up to 100db

Good points!
Try to get to know a few farmers in your area - you’ll find most are friendly and happy to have you on their land to fly over often beautiful areas with interesting work and machinery to film. Share some video with them and you’ll have them on your side. And you can go back in different seasons etc.
If you like have a look at a few of my farming drone videos on my YouTube channel for ideas. And some bird encounters!
Here is a recent farming one:

AeroJ · Jun 9, 2024

mreco99 said:
Searches on google for that, all start with Where can you fly, then just tell you where you cant fly.
Flyable Air space is pretty well documented and followable. but TOAL (take off and landing, for people like me who didnt know what that meant), is a whole other point, ive yet to find useful help.

Yes that's about the size of it. Everyone absolutely falling all over themselves to tell us where we can't fly, resulting in almost no area of the country, outside a few specified featureless fields (which are typically of absolutely ZERO interest to photo-flyers) being in a clearly allowable area. Pretty much wherever you try and take off from somebody can find a reason why you shouldn't have done so if they are minded to try.

I presume there isn't a guide for places to fly because there aren't enough to make it worth the effort of compiling one !

mreco99 said:
In theory, it looks like you cant TOAL on a rural footpaths, bridle ways, byways (OS maps), as they are only allowable rights of way for travelling through, not stopping, ie having a picnic, or a BBQ. Although I suspect dronies do use these anyway. That was my plan anyway.

Nope, I would say ALL that is fair game for TOAL, and if not the paths themselves the sidings and verges that usually accompany them ! Previously to the (unusually sensible) sub-250g exclusion to the '>50m from buildings or people' rule, we would have to wait for those paths to be empty of people at time of take off and landing, but now not even that is necessary, although it is something I still aim for.

I am not 'stopping' on a byway or footpath to do my flight, I am moving along it, just very slowly, and there is no minimum speed specified. Sometimes, I change direction, and walk back to where I started, for example to retrieve a landing pad I may have dropped; also impossible to forbid, or enforce

Practically speaking, if you're out deep in the countryside on one of these paths, the chances of meeting someone in a typical flight session are fairly low, and the chances of them being arseholes about what you are doing less still, I find.
If you are nice to people you meet, and they can see you are being considerate of their presence (ie being polite with them, not landing right next to them / delaying a TO/L until they have passed etc etc) most people will be fine with it, and good few more actually encouraging about and interested in what you are doing.

mreco99 said:
Another point, birds. Im a bird lover like most photographers. But when I read ' cant fly a drone near here, birds might be nesting' , I cant help but be bemused. Nesting season is considered Feb to Aug, different birds nest different times.

Yes, were we to become over-absorbed in that particular nest of vipers we wouldn't fly anywhere birds are for the entirety of the 2 seasons when flying is most viable. And that is not really a reasonable request for anyone to make is it ?

I do consider it reasonable to make some effort to avoid flying close to the treeline / canopy during nesting season, and in situations where birds feel the need to come and harass your craft in defence of nests it makes sense for everyone involved to leave the immediate vicinity asap, but the truth is that most of the time they don't do that, and so I consider that reasonable evidence that they are not disturbed by my flying. Sure, if there's a specific valley with a rare species of bird only found there, and there's only 3 pairs of them left, then fair play, avoid, and in dedicated wildlife preservation areas etc etc, but regular birds in regular countryside ? - I am simply not buying that we are disturbing them in any meaningful way, and in where we are, only in a very temporary / transitory / minor way.

I find hawks to be the most problematic of birds for us as flyers, and also the perfect examples of why bird-based rules do not make sense a lot of the time. No matter how remote the valley or hillside there's usually a couple of those around, who consider the entire 200 mile area they survey 'their' territory, and if they spot your drone in it, which they always do, may consider it competition they feel a need to remove from the sky, and of course they are MORE than capable of doing so if we don't catch on early, and exhibit the right kind of behaviour (hard throttle up and 200 ft rise, then fly (and stay) a good distance away from them IME !). The point being that it is simply impossible to avoid being in the surveyed territory of a passing hawk no matter where we fly from, there are other birds everywhere, and we have to take off from 'somewhere' !

Pacefast · Jun 10, 2024

I flew near the Rock in Calp Spain and was plagued by Gulls who were even attacking tourists climbing the rock.
I attempted one flight near the rock and all hell lee loose.
At one point the drone was surrounded by maybe 10 gulls all making threatening passes at the Drone
The way out ? Climb, Climb and Climb !
Air 3 climbs at nearly 2000 fpm and left the bemused Gulls totally perplexed at " Where did it go " I then flew out to sea high level dropped to just above the sea maybe 6 to 10 feet and flew back fast !
This technique of climbing out worked every timr