Why hasnt Japan or the USA produced a competitive drone?

[Former Member]

As much as I love all my DJI toys, Im wondering why the US, Japan, England, Germany or other countries, who were previously the leaders in recreational RC vehicles, havent come up with a viable product?

Ive been in RC for a long time. When I first started out, in the USA there was Futaba, JR and Airtronics for the radio and servos, and Tower Hobbies and Horizon Hobbies for the planes and engines. Of course there were many other companies, but the USA, Japan and some European companies were the leaders. Still today, for top level radios for RC, you cant beat Futaba, JR or Spectrum.

So where did China come from? What were their roots in RC? How did a Chinese company come from out of obscurity to be the leader in RC drones, by a wide margin? Did they secretly have advanced RC vehicles but did not release them worldwide? I mean, power to them for taking the drone world by storm, but how did that happen?

I like the way the Japanese and American companies did business. You could buy pretty much any part or servo from your local Hobbytown USA, and install it yourself. Everything was made to be repaired yourself. DJI does not want you to repair it yourself. You cant even buy most parts from them to do it.

Maybe I just miss dealing with Japanese and domestic companies and products for my RC. Japan has such a huge presence in the USA, and people love their products, so why dont they make us a drone that can compete?

 

[old man mavic]

As much as I love all my DJI toys, Im wondering why the US, Japan, Germany or other countries, who were previously the leaders in recreational RC vehicles, havent come up with a viable product?

Ive been in RC for a long time. When I first started out, in the USA there was Futaba, JR and Airtronics for the radio and servos, and Tower Hobbies and Horizon Hobbies for the planes and engines. Of course there were many other companies, but the USA, Japan and some European companies were the leaders. Still today, for top level radios for RC, you cant beat Futaba, JR or Spectrum.

So where did China come from? What were their roots in RC? How did a Chinese company come from out of obscurity to be the leader in RC drones, by a wide margin? Did they secretly have advanced RC vehicles but did not release them worldwide?

I like the way the Japanese and American companies did business. You could buy pretty much any part or servo from your local Hobbytown USA, and install it yourself. Everything was made to be repaired yourself. DJI does not want you to repair it yourself. You cant even buy most parts from them to do it.

Maybe I just miss dealing with Japanese and domestic companies and products for my RC. Japan has such a huge presence in the USA, and people love their products, so why dont they make us a drone that can compete?

to me the main reason is the cost of production,and the labour cost,its all relative to cost per component,to produce a finished article and the only way to reduce that cost is to scale up production to levels that China seem to be good at and lets not forget their ability to take the best products of the rest of the world and make something similar at a price that others cannot complete with,and the other issue is the fact that the rest of the world then buy their products, because they are as good as if not better than home grown products

 

[Former Member]

to me the main reason is the cost of production,and the labour cost,its all relative to cost per component,to produce a finished article and the only way to reduce that cost is to scale up production to levels that China seem to be good at and lets not forget their ability to take the best products of the rest of the world and make something similar at a price that others cannot complete with,and the other issue is the fact that the rest of the world then buy their products, because they are as good as if not better than home grown products

Yes, it seems like China has gotten very good at copying other peoples products, and making them cheaper and sometimes better. The problem with doing business like that is that soon they will kill off the competition that they have been copying from due to lower prices, and will have to come up with something original. The other problem is that some countries just dont like other countries copying their ideas, and react negatively.

Im trying to remember a time when Americans had a negative attitude towards Japan, due to them copying our products and selling them for cheaper. Cant remember a single time. Also, Im trying to remember a time when a Japanese company was accused of espionage, and had their products banned. Maybe I just have amnesia.

 

[AnzacJack]

Think back to the late 40s and early 1950s when Japan started mass producing cheap electronics and cars. You may not remember, but check history and the rise of the Japanese economy after ww2.

 

[Former Member]

Think back to the late 40s and early 1950s when Japan started mass producing cheap electronics and cars. You may not remember, but check history and the rise of the Japanese economy after ww2.

People in the USA wouldnt touch Japanese cars back then, not because of the resentment from the war, but because Toyotas were too small for the average American to want to get in to. Their quality was also poor back then.

American made cars were still the rage up until the mis 70's and the advent of the Z cars. By the 90's Japan had a firm grip on the US car market.

 

[Kilrah]

What about Autel and Parrot? They are "western" companies with decent products, yet they're struggling.

Products like DJI drones basically have nothing in common with "common" RC vehicles you're refrerring to anymore, hence why companies successful at them have no RC background. DJI actually did at the very start but was smart enough to take the big step and transition to developing completely new tech from scratch, as was required to break the barrier of subpar drones that were all you could get by using standard RC components.

 

[Former Member]

What about Autel and Parrot? They are "western" companies with decent products, yet they're struggling.

Products like DJI drones basically have nothing in common with "common" RC vehicles you're refrerring to anymore, hence why companies successful at them have no RC background. DJI actually did at the very start but was smart enough to take the big step and transition to developing completely new tech from scratch, as was required to break the barrier of subpar drones that were all you could get by using standard RC components.

"Struggling" is a subjective term. How do you judge a company as struggling?

Parrots Anafi Thermal is priced at $1900, which is nearly $1000 cheaper than the M2ED. Autel Evo is a good competitor, I own one.

All of your contentions will be moot if DJI keeps getting caught with its hand in the cookie jar of American Homeland security.

 

[AMann]

As much as I love all my DJI toys, Im wondering why the US, Japan, England, Germany or other countries, who were previously the leaders in recreational RC vehicles, havent come up with a viable product?

Ive been in RC for a long time. When I first started out, in the USA there was Futaba, JR and Airtronics for the radio and servos, and Tower Hobbies and Horizon Hobbies for the planes and engines. Of course there were many other companies, but the USA, Japan and some European companies were the leaders. Still today, for top level radios for RC, you cant beat Futaba, JR or Spectrum.

So where did China come from? What were their roots in RC? How did a Chinese company come from out of obscurity to be the leader in RC drones, by a wide margin? Did they secretly have advanced RC vehicles but did not release them worldwide? I mean, power to them for taking the drone world by storm, but how did that happen?

I like the way the Japanese and American companies did business. You could buy pretty much any part or servo from your local Hobbytown USA, and install it yourself. Everything was made to be repaired yourself. DJI does not want you to repair it yourself. You cant even buy most parts from them to do it.

Maybe I just miss dealing with Japanese and domestic companies and products for my RC. Japan has such a huge presence in the USA, and people love their products, so why dont they make us a drone that can compete?

Japanese companies such as Nikon and Cannon also outsource to China for making even their professional level cameras and lenses as well. Not too long ago, countries like Japan could have started DJI, but I think the tides have changed now and China has become the dominant technological leader with consumer electronics and is not that far away from dominating other technologies currently led by the US and other countries as well.

 

[Former Member]

Japanese companies such as Nikon and Cannon also outsource to China for making even their professional level cameras and lenses as well. Not too long ago, countries like Japan could have started DJI, but I think the tides have changed now and China has become the dominant technological leader with consumer electronics and is not that far away from dominating other technologies currently led by the US and other countries as well.

Yes, seems like many companies outsource to China for production. Thats fine, as long as they have an astute QC team to insure that the end products are up to snuff.

Can you name some other Chinese companies (aside from Huawei) that dominate the technological market?

Luckily the Chinese auto industry is still in the habit of copying everyone elses ideas and making them their own. This is due to lack of originality of their own. Somehow, the Chinese companies always seem to win IP lawsuits when foreign companies bring them.

 

[runeOfRune]

All of your contentions will be moot if DJI keeps getting caught with its hand in the cookie jar of American Homeland security.

Like what? Because so far it's been a stream of FUD from the US govt and no real proof of anything. So far the US govt and US corporate media are the one getting caught with its hand on the cookie jar, so why would I trust them?

"Struggling" is a subjective term. How do you judge a company as struggling?

Let's google "parrot revenue 2018"

On November 23, 2018, the Group announced a plan for departures with a view to reducing the resources used by Parrot Drones’ marketing and production structures to adjust them in line with current market capacity. This plan concerns around 100 people and is focused primarily on international operations, particularly in the US and Asia.

Source: Parrot : 2018 business and earnings | MarketScreener

Henri Seydoux, Parrot's Chairman, CEO and leading shareholder, explains: "The end of this year is being complicated by a significant and unexpected contraction of the consumer drone market, which has occurred at the time of the launch of our new drone, the Parrot ANAFI. While the technological performance and the positive reaction received by this product are in line with our expectations, and even though we have gained market share, in a harsh environment whist preserving our pricing positioning and strategy, the market reversal has held back our revenue growth and impacted all our financial balances.

Parrot Drone houses the consumer business and the range of Parrot products for professionals, further strengthened by the Parrot ANAFI's performances, but significantly affected by the growth crisis on the consumer drone market.

Source: PARROT : 2018 third-quarter business and earnings

Apparently Mavic 2 caused "growth crisis in the drone market" ?

Anyway, back on topic: same reason nobody created a successful Google killer, becasue developing the entirety of the software required to mirror DJI functionality would take years and cost billions. DJI had over 10 years to master this, and they stemmed from gimbal tech so they had significant headstart in the engineering department. Then on top of that, you'd also have to build your units in China anyway, becasue the competitor is already where the cheapest workforce is. Add marketing spending and a strong competitor holding 80% of the market and you get a strong NOPE from all potential VCs. =P

 

[Former Member]

Like what? Because so far it's been a stream of FUD from the US govt and no real proof of anything. So far the US govt and US corporate media are the one getting caught with its hand on the cookie jar, so why would I trust them?

So you dont trust the US Army or the Department of Homeland security but you trust a foreign owned entity?

Parrot will break even this year. Do you happen to know what DJI's financials looked like for 2018? You dont, and nobody does except for Frank Wang (maybe) and the PRC.

 

[runeOfRune]

So you dont trust the US Army or the Department of Homeland security but you trust a foreign owned entity?

Why would I trust one foreign entity over another? I'm not American.
****, I probably trust more in competence of DJI engineers than the competence of my own government. ?

 

[Former Member]

I'm not American.

Oh, ok. Are you Chinese? lol joking

 

[Former Member]

Why would I trust one foreign entity over another? I'm not American.
Hеll, I probably trust more in competence of DJI engineers than the competence of my own government. ?

What country are you from? Just curious.

 

[Kilrah]

So you dont trust the US Army or the Department of Homeland security but you trust a foreign owned entity?

I trust no one without evidence, and none has been presented - even worse, there is none to present since no one has even said anything ever happened. Only allegation of "possible" actions have been mentioned. Literally "they might do that one day"... of course they might, but anything could happen one day, including the opposite way.

"Struggling" is a subjective term. How do you judge a company as struggling?

They have announced it publicly, with the anafi getting only 30% of expected sales and no really positive outlook. Heck, the CEO bought back most of the company because he's basically the last one to believe in it. Good on him but seeing that you won't see anyone today decide to start a new company in this market to try to take on DJI.

 

[brett8883]

As much as I love all my DJI toys, Im wondering why the US, Japan, England, Germany or other countries, who were previously the leaders in recreational RC vehicles, havent come up with a viable product?

Ive been in RC for a long time. When I first started out, in the USA there was Futaba, JR and Airtronics for the radio and servos, and Tower Hobbies and Horizon Hobbies for the planes and engines. Of course there were many other companies, but the USA, Japan and some European companies were the leaders. Still today, for top level radios for RC, you cant beat Futaba, JR or Spectrum.

So where did China come from? What were their roots in RC? How did a Chinese company come from out of obscurity to be the leader in RC drones, by a wide margin? Did they secretly have advanced RC vehicles but did not release them worldwide? I mean, power to them for taking the drone world by storm, but how did that happen?

I like the way the Japanese and American companies did business. You could buy pretty much any part or servo from your local Hobbytown USA, and install it yourself. Everything was made to be repaired yourself. DJI does not want you to repair it yourself. You cant even buy most parts from them to do it.

Maybe I just miss dealing with Japanese and domestic companies and products for my RC. Japan has such a huge presence in the USA, and people love their products, so why dont they make us a drone that can compete?

I think it’s not so much that we don’t have the technology or ability but the US companies that have this technology and capability are after bigger fish. Our military and the military’s of our allies spend so much money and are such reliable customers that it isn’t worth it for those companies to design and market to consumers. Take for instance Lockheed Martin’s Indago Indago this could have been a consumer drone but Lockheed Martin won’t sell it to just anybody and they don’t need to.

While DJI has done a great job of making drone technology affordable and marketing it in a way that get consumers excited to say that their technology is superior isn’t really the case their genius was in the marketing and making it accessible to consumers.

 

[Former Member]

I trust no one without evidence, and none has been presented - even worse, there is none to present since no one has even said anything ever happened. Only allegation of "possible" actions have been mentioned. Literally "they might do that one day"... of course they might, but anything could happen one day, including the opposite way.

Most of that info is classified. It is not normally disseminated to the general public until more details are known.

They have announced it publicly, with the anafi getting only 30% of expected sales and no really positive outlook. Heck, the CEO bought back most of the company because he's basically the last one to believe in it. Good on him but seeing that you won't see anyone today decide to start a new company in this market to try to take on DJI.

Glass half empty, glass half full. Better to overestimate the market and have goods readily available to ship, than to underestimate the demand, and have no products to ship. Sound familiar?

 

[Former Member]

I think it’s not so much that we don’t have the technology or ability but the US companies that have this technology and capability are after bigger fish. Our military and the military’s of our allies spend so much money and are such reliable customers that it isn’t worth it for those companies to design and market to consumers. Take for instance Lockheed Martin’s Indago Indago this could have been a consumer drone but Lockheed Martin won’t sell it to just anybody and they don’t need to.

While DJI has done a great job of making drone technology affordable and marketing it in a way that get consumers excited to say that their technology is superior isn’t really the case their genius was in the marketing and making it accessible to consumers.

Great points. Do you think at some point, some of this military level tech will trickle down to USA based consumer oriented drone manufacturers? Most Americans have benefited from tech developed by the military and Nasa, but some times it takes years to come to market.

 

[brett8883]

Great points. Do you think at some point, some of this military level tech will trickle down to USA based consumer oriented drone manufacturers? Most Americans have benefited from tech developed by the military and Nasa, but some times it takes years to come to market.

Yea I think so but we need somebody who is willing to take plunge and willing to market to consumers and put up with us. Imagine the embarrassment for Lockheed Martin if an Indago ended up in the hands of a terrorist or something. They aren’t gonna put themselves out there like that when they are trying to sell F-35s at $100,000,000 a pop.

 

[Former Member]

Yea I think so but we need somebody who is willing to take plunge and willing to market to consumers and put up with us. Imagine the embarrassment for Lockheed Martin if an Indago ended up in the hands of a terrorist or something. They aren’t gonna put themselves out there like that when they are trying to sell F-35s at $100,000,000 a pop.

I think the Indago might have a better chance of ending up in the hands of terrorists while it is being put to use on the battlefield. Some of the best technology that we have acquired during wartime has been through capturing the technology of our enemies.