Do you fly within VLOS?

[Imagineimagery]

Let the truth be told, anonymously of course.

 

[tcope]

This exact question was asked a few months ago.

 

[WithTheBirds]

This exact question was asked a few months ago.

Was it a survey?

 

[tcope]

Was it a survey?

Using the search feature of the board... yes.

VLOS survey

 

[WithTheBirds]

There is a glaring logical error in the question formulation- It is a safe assumption we all fly within VLOS when launching and landing if not for the duration of the flight (goggle wearers excepted).

 

[WithTheBirds]

Using the search feature of the board... yes.

VLOS survey

There is a useful link for the OP.

 

[Imagineimagery]

There is a glaring logical error in the question formulation- It is a safe assumption we all fly within VLOS when launching and landing if not for the duration of the flight (goggle wearers excepted).

Yes. It is such a safe assumption that we all start within VLOS that it would be pointless to even mention that. and yet here we are...

 

[Imagineimagery]

Vote here if you haven’t already-

VLOS survey

Visual Line of Sight survey

mavicpilots.com

 

[zocalo]

Kinda missing option: Whichever the local law requires.

I fly within VLOS when required to do so (e.g. in my home country), but am quite happy to fly beyond it when I'm overseas and the country in question doesn't have a VLOS restriction. FWIW, I went with Option 3 which kind of covers that and describes my VLOS ratio, but could also be interpreted as "occassionally breaks the rules".

 

[Dakarenduro]

I do my best to stay within VLOS. Where I'm at it is not a law/regulation/requirement. But I just feel safer. However with this **** MA it can be 30m high and 30m away and you will lose sight of it. So rely on telemetry a LOT.

 

[RayOZ]

This question/discussion crops up now and again. I wonder no one ask WHY and WHEN the VLOS was put in place. Once upon a time, RC aircrafts would operate in what is called ATTI mode and there's no cameras or other telemetry on the RC. Once you do lose sight of it, you would not know where it is, where it's going and it can be dangerous for anyone nearby. With the drones we have these days, with GPS and camera, if you lose sight of it, letting go of the joystick and the drone would just hover in place. You've got telemetry and video feed, which you can then still use to navigate around, safely.
Having said that, exercise caution whenever you fly. Follow the rules where possible, cos you don't want to get in trouble with the law. In city and suburbs where people/homes/buildings/properties are around, it's best to fly VLOS so you don't endanger anyone or anything. In the middle of no where, where there's no one for miles and no one can get hurt, I don't see it as an issue.
I just think the VLOS rule is a bit outdated.

 

[Kilrah]

Once upon a time, RC aircrafts would operate in what is called ATTI mode and there's no cameras or other telemetry on the RC.

There was no need for a VLOS rule when it was obvious it wasn't possible to fly beyond anyway... it came when cameras and FPV arrived. But that was long before DJI existed and multicopters were practical and we were flying FPV airplanes.
The VLOS rule is based on you needing to be able to see any other aircraft that might get into a collision course with yours, when your aircraft is out of sight you have to rely on the camera and that only allows you to see forward, not all around like you can when you are looking at it from the outside.

I consider that to be far-fetched since if that happened your aircraft would be in the forward sector of the other aircraft so he would be able to see yours (other aircraft pilots also don't constantly look behind them), the only thing is that UAVs are too small to see reliably or far enough in advance. BUT to me, as long as you had a powerful fast flashing beacon to make you visible to others you should be able to fly BVLOS with no other specific requirement.

 

[WithTheBirds]

This question/discussion crops up now and again. I wonder no one ask WHY and WHEN the VLOS was put in place. Once upon a time, RC aircrafts would operate in what is called ATTI mode and there's no cameras or other telemetry on the RC. Once you do lose sight of it, you would not know where it is, where it's going and it can be dangerous for anyone nearby. With the drones we have these days, with GPS and camera, if you lose sight of it, letting go of the joystick and the drone would just hover in place. You've got telemetry and video feed, which you can then still use to navigate around, safely.
Having said that, exercise caution whenever you fly. Follow the rules where possible, cos you don't want to get in trouble with the law. In city and suburbs where people/homes/buildings/properties are around, it's best to fly VLOS so you don't endanger anyone or anything. In the middle of no where, where there's no one for miles and no one can get hurt, I don't see it as an issue.
I just think the VLOS rule is a bit outdated.

I never heard of ATTI mode before DJI drones anywhere in the RC hobby. Where did it first originate?

 

[WithTheBirds]

Yes. It is such a safe assumption that we all start within VLOS that it would be pointless to even mention that. and yet here we are...

Yes here we are- with the same expectation people will be inclined to admit knowingly breaking the rules. What do you hope to get out of this?

 

[Imagineimagery]

What do you hope to get out of this?

Answers. It’s a poll.

 

[Imagineimagery]

I took off the option to change votes btw.

 

[Kilrah]

I never heard of ATTI mode before DJI drones anywhere in the RC hobby. Where did it first originate?

The ATTI mode naming is a DJI thing.

 

[WithTheBirds]

The ATTI mode naming is a DJI thing.

I thought so but others might know something we don’t.

 

[zocalo]

I consider that to be far-fetched since if that happened your aircraft would be in the forward sector of the other aircraft so he would be able to see yours (other aircraft pilots also don't constantly look behind them), the only thing is that UAVs are too small to see reliably or far enough in advance. BUT to me, as long as you had a powerful fast flashing beacon to make you visible to others you should be able to fly BVLOS with no other specific requirement.

FWIW, there's been a lot of discussion about SUAV - e.g. all unmanned aircraft - legislation in the EU (including the UK as this got onto the books before Brexit) of late, and the impression I got from the various publications, committee hearings, etc. was that the aspiration is definitely working towards technical means that will allow for relaxation of VLOS requirements. A lot of this seems to be being undertaken in co-ordination with the FAA, so something similar on the other side of the Atlantic seems likely too. The general path seems to be along the lines of the following for drones over 250g (below that mass is a different, and much more restrictive, set of flight limits):

1. Require that UAVs are able to receive (but not transmit) ADS-B broadcasts from other aircraft, enabling the UAV pilot to deconflict if necessary. This is what DJI is meant to be bringing in from 2020, and is a good first step that should make Class G airspace much safer for everyone to operate in IMHO.
2. Enable an interface between UAV pilots and ATCs, probably just a general area of operation as a kind of "NOTAM-lite" to start - (e.g. something like the FAA's LAANC system)
3. Move towards requiring active ADS-B transponders on all UAVs once technology can do so without too much impact; it was acknowleged that current power, size, and weight requirements make this unfeasible and it was likely to be a few years off.
4. Enable full and seemless integration of UAVS into the ATC infrastructure; obviously how that is going to work is still very much TBC, but is assumed to be required for any automated delivery drones operated by the likes of Amazon. I'd expect the requirement will trickle down from there until it becomes ubiquitous on all UAVS.

The UK is also talking about having multiple tiers of training and certification beyond the initial pilot and drone registration scheme due to be introduced in around October, potentially replacing our current PfCO system for commercial operators as the new legislation does not differentiate between commercial and recreational use, being based on classes of aircraft and operator competencies. I'd assume BVLOS will, in addition to having the necessary ADS-B technology on the drone, require one of those higher tiers of additional level of training and certification, before you can legally fly it.

 

[Kilrah]

I thought so but others might know something we don’t.

I was in that field many years before DJI started making multicopters. ATTI combines what used to be labeled either "autolevel" or "ACC" (becasue it's the addition of accelerometers to the former gyro-only quads that allowed autolevel) and "Vario" which is barometric height control with the stick giving a vertical speed command instead of commanding throttle.
Both could be done and combined before DJI, but usually height control wasn't very reliable and you needed a switch to enable it individually when everything happened to be right. DJI are the first who got it right enough that it could be always on and have the combination of those become the default mode.