Free training for drone pilots on search/rescue techniques on Mar 30

[Former Member]

I can see needing a VLOS waiver a good portion of the time. VLOS and SAR might sometimes be mutually exclusive if flying in foggy or smokey conditions, and unless the drone is using FLIR, you wont be able to see the ground anyway.

 

[RCdancer]

Note that this procedure doesn't need a DEM, because Litchi Mission Hub makes the necessary height adjustments automatically when it imports the csv.

Keep in mind that google earth doesn't know the height of trees (and some other potential obstacles.) In my video of the Spark waypoint demo those trees average 80 ft in height with some branches extending close to 100 ft AGL. That's why experience and the ability to quickly read terrain onsite and adjust is so important.

 

[Former Member]

Keep in mind that google earth doesn't know the height of trees and some other potential obstacles.) In my video of the Spark waypoint demo those trees average 80 ft in height with some branches extending close to 100 ft AGL. That's why experience and the ability to quickly read terrain onsite and adjust is so important.

That was going to be my next comment. Not sure how often GE is updated...?

 

[sar104]

Keep in mind that google earth doesn't know the height of trees (and some other potential obstacles.) In my video of the Spark waypoint demo those trees average 80 ft in height with some branches extending close to 100 ft AGL. That's why experience and the ability to quickly read terrain onsite and adjust is so important.

I use a default height AGL of 55 m for the M2P camera, which yields 1 px/cm on the ground. In most places that will be well above the trees but, if you do have 150 ft trees, then that needs to be taken into account. This technique is strictly for automated flight - not manual flight - hence the number of waypoints to adequately resolve ground terrain elevation changes.

 

[RCdancer]

Guys,

This great brief online discussion we're having is exactly why collaboration is so important. As we state in our DSAR philosophy,

"We recognize (1) the value of synergy, (2) that no single person has all the answers and all knowledge, and (3) that drone technology is constantly advancing at light speed. Thus, we believe freely pooling our collective experience, wisdom and knowledge benefits everyone."

The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I know.

 

[BigAl07]

I can see needing a VLOS waiver a good portion of the time. VLOS and SAR might sometimes be mutually exclusive if flying in foggy or smokey conditions, and unless the drone is using FLIR, you wont be able to see the ground anyway.

If you're flying in fog/smoke I don't believe the VLOS waiver is going to cut it. If visibility is less than the 3 miles requirement for VFR you're working outside of other regs than just VLOS. Even with a COA that has VLOS written into it we still have to take into account visibility conditions and can't bust those. You can't mix and match different regulations like this. They aren't the same thing.

@sar104 would you be up for a phone call one day? I work with a group who has some Litchi grids working and I think you would be an excellent addition or at least be worth getting you and the group leader discussing "grids".

For those involved in this endeavor I commend you but I want to stress how important it is to train the operators exactly what we need in SAR.... I've been "doing this" a good while and one of the biggest problems we have with sUAS operators is them showing up not understanding what is needed from them and wasting their time (and our resources) making pretty landscape images and still shots of vast fields and open areas.

Also do you go into detail as to what additional training (outside of sUAS) might be needed (or required in our case) to be on-scene and working with an Incident Commander?

 

[RCdancer]

Also do you go into detail as to what additional training (outside of sUAS) might be needed (or required in our case) to be on-scene and working with an Incident Commander?

Yes, we emphasize that and recommend training. In fact, if it's a "band-aid" multi-agency search operation with no clearly defined authority, we advise it might be best to keep the drone on the ground until it's well organized.

 

[BigAl07]

Yes, we emphasize that and recommend training. In fact, if it's a "band-aid" multi-agency search operation with no clearly defined authority, we advise it might be best to keep the drone on the ground until it's well organized.

Excellent. That's a great way to put it.

 

[RCdancer]

wasting their time (and our resources) making pretty landscape images and still shots of vast fields and open areas.

That's exactly why in our official promo video we depict how hard it is to see someone from 125 ft AGL. (When we were shooting that video, even though I knew the general area where she would be, it was very challenging to see her.) They will never be standing on the middle of an big open field, wearing neon yellow and waving their arms. Drone SAR is tough and requires constant practice.

Our training may start in an open field with novices, but will progress to very difficult real-world situations. When we head up to VA for focused 2-day training this summer, I want the second afternoon to be a SAR op in at least a square mile in challenging terrain ... to let them experience how difficult it is.

 

[sar104]

If you're flying in fog/smoke I don't believe the VLOS waiver is going to cut it. If visibility is less than the 3 miles requirement for VFR you're working outside of other regs than just VLOS. Even with a COA that has VLOS written into it we still have to take into account visibility conditions and can't bust those. You can't mix and match different regulations like this. They aren't the same thing.

@sar104 would you be up for a phone call one day? I work with a group who has some Litchi grids working and I think you would be an excellent addition or at least be worth getting you and the group leader discussing "grids".

For those involved in this endeavor I commend you but I want to stress how important it is to train the operators exactly what we need in SAR.... I've been "doing this" a good while and one of the biggest problems we have with sUAS operators is them showing up not understanding what is needed from them and wasting their time (and our resources) making pretty landscape images and still shots of vast fields and open areas.

Also do you go into detail as to what additional training (outside of sUAS) might be needed (or required in our case) to be on-scene and working with an Incident Commander?

I'd be happy to work with anyone who is interested, especially in the area of automated search. In NMSAR we use both automated grid and freeform search, depending on terrain and operator skills.

This is sufficiently new that there are numerous challenges integrating sUAS into formal SAR. Most of the state Incident Commanders are largely unfamiliar with the use of drones (I'm currently the only Incident Commander in the state with a Part 107 certification) and many of the potential pilots are fairly new to SAR. I'll be attempting to teach both groups (ICS and pilots) at the next annual NMSAR conference. It should be interesting.

 

[RCdancer]

Most of the state Incident Commanders are largely unfamiliar with the use of drones

Your state is not unique. We emphasize in our intro brief that onsite education is key. Most incident commanders will likely tend towards one of two views on drones:

1. drones are a panacea and the silver bullet for SAR ops
2. drones are just expensive toys

Obviously neither is true. One of our key goals in DSAR is education.

 

[BigAl07]

I'll shoot you a PM and coordinate a good time to catch up.

This is sufficiently new that there are numerous challenges integrating sUAS into formal SAR. Most of the state Incident Commanders are largely unfamiliar with the use of drones (I'm currently the only Incident Commander in the state with a Part 107 certification) and many of the potential pilots are fairly new to SAR. I'll be attempting to teach both groups (ICS and pilots) at the next annual NMSAR conference. It should be interesting.

Yes many times when we show up the IC doesn't really know what we can do (or can't) and they don't know what to even ask for. It's a challenge at times to get on the same page but it gets easier with time.

Sounds like NMSAR is well on the right path there. I'm going down to SC next month to speak to the whole SC ES Directors at a conference and to demonstrate some sUAS tech (Yuneec) to them. That should be a good time.

 

[RCdancer]

Sorry to report that Shoemaker MP had to cancel training; he fell and broke his neck. Surgery soon. Pray for a speedy and full recovery.

 

[BigAl07]

Sorry to report that Shoemaker MP had to cancel training; he fell and broke his neck. Surgery soon. Pray for a speedy and full recovery.

Ouch! That's horrible. I hate to hear that.

Prayers for a great procedure and speedy and FULL recovery. I've had (2) neck surgeries and don't envy him or his care giver.

 

[RCdancer]

Ouch! That's horrible. I hate to hear that.

Prayers for a great procedure and speedy and FULL recovery. I've had (2) neck surgeries and don't envy him or his care giver.

He's just hoping to be able to fly again. Second time he's broken it.

 

[RCdancer]

16 slots are taken for the free drone SAR training on Mar 30; only 4 slots are left

update1: 17 slots are taken and only 3 spaces left

update2: 18 slots are taken and only 2 spaces left

update3: it looks like two deputies are taking the last 2 spots; once I know for sure we will start a waiting list for any that may have to cancel out of training

update4: never heard final conformation from the 2 deputies; still 2 slots left

update 5: as of 13 Feb, one had to cancel; 3 slots left

 

[BigAl07]

It's filling up quickly. That's a very good thing.

 

[Former Member]

I'll shoot you a PM and coordinate a good time to catch up.



Yes many times when we show up the IC doesn't really know what we can do (or can't) and they don't know what to even ask for. It's a challenge at times to get on the same page but it gets easier with time.

Sounds like NMSAR is well on the right path there. I'm going down to SC next month to speak to the whole SC ES Directors at a conference and to demonstrate some sUAS tech (Yuneec) to them. That should be a good time.

@rcdancer maybe you can get an invite

 

[RCdancer]

@rcdancer maybe you can get an invite

Would love to, but I have to do the full-time job sometime ....

 

[BigAl07]

Would love to, but I have to do the full-time job sometime ....

LOL! Work gets in the way too often

I'm taking vacation to go present next week.