How many 107 Licensed Users are prevented from taking off

[AngelAndres]

That's probably fair, although in most places the impact of the restrictions is marginal. But I can imagine that in some locations, with some kinds of news coverage, it would be a problem. I'm curious - what kinds of location/airspace do you find you need access to that is a DJI restricted zone?

Hello,

My comment was undoubtedly fair.

While I am not here to appease your curiosity, for the sake of our other posters I'll be more specific. We had a need to operate within the lateral boundaries of the Centennial Airport, KAPA, airspace in March. DJI placed an “NFZ” (yes, that is precisely DJI’s terminology at that time) over an area which is eligible for an FAA LAANC authorization with a 150ft ceiling.

We are a 24hour a day, 7 day a week operation. Whenever WE need to fly, we need to fly. That's why we as an organization support the FAA's LAANC system of near-instant authorization during daylight hours. If DJI is not up to the challenge of properly aligning their Enhanced Warning Zones, Authorization Zones, and Restricted Zone authorizations to match the convenience of the FAA's system, then the DJI platform is inadequate for any operation requiring immediate access to such airspace.

Bottom line, the OP finds themselves in good company here. Another brand of sUAS is my suggestion.

-Angel

 

[ajkm]

I presume the OP isn’t hearing what s/he wants to hear so has given up and gone silent? Some useful information here for the rest of us though, thanks.

 

[sar104]

There's not much DJI restricted at that location that isn't 0 ft LAANC. And there are no 100 ft LAANC grids at that location. Also, just to be clear, DJI did not refer to these as NFZs, they have been restricted zones since the Fly Safe system was implemented.

 

[DanMan32]

DJI might not call their various zones as NFZ, but the M2 RC LCD screens specifically show NFZ when in a blue or red area.

If an entity regularly flies in DJI geofence zones that tend to be problematic, such entities can request long term unlocks for such areas from DJI. You probably want to apply for similar waivers from FAA dronezone.

The geometry of DJI zones used to be circular which made it difficult to impossible to protect sensitive areas without overreaching. Now they also have oval, rectangular and trapezoidal shapes.
They also added blue zones that mainly cover areas for low altitude high traffic areas such as runway approaches. Facilities map tend to have those areas with 0ft allowed altitude.

DJI's database is international focus whereas Airmap and Kittyhawk tend to be north America focus. DJI is bound to have errors. A case in point was the east-west runway approach for Brooksville use to have restrictions in DJI as it should, but that has disappeared for some reason. FAA has 0ft altitude for the approach all the way out to 5 miles so my beef would be with FAA, not DJI. I could unlock and fly with DJI though tricky, but legally FAA says I can't even below 100'. This is silly as there are high tension powerlines cutting across the approach at about 3.5-4 miles from the airport.
The LAANC apps now include facilities map grids but until lately, they've been all over the place in including the grid.

The pre 4.3.24 Go App update notice specifically indicated DJI including LAANC soon. That should help with better correlation between Geo database and LAANC database and Geo overrides when LAANC clearance is given.

 

[skiptv]

Most of the time when you are locked out from flying a DJI drone, you are at the ends and within a half mile of a active airport runway. In some of those situations you may get a LANNC approval to fly up to 50 feet. However, Considering the the comments and questions I sometimes see in these posts, I dont really think not being able to take off is a bad thing.

 

[AngelAndres]

There's not much DJI restricted at that location that isn't 0 ft LAANC. And there are no 100 ft LAANC grids at that location. Also, just to be clear, DJI did not refer to these as NFZs, they have been restricted zones since the Fly Safe system was implemented.


View attachment 80732

View attachment 80733

Hello,

Thank you for posting this. You strengthened my point. If everyone will please refer to this poster’s two maps. The area in which we needed to operate has an DJI imposed restriction extending into it from the North even though we were authorized by the FAA for flight up to 150ft AGL. We were unable to depart or even start our motors due to this DJI issue. We were unable to complete our mission.

The original poster for this thread and the rest of the Mavic Pro community are right to be concerned about this. DJI can keep enacting all of the arbitrary restrictions that they so please. However, to find an end to this particular issue, either DJI needs to better align their no-fly restrictions with those of the FAA’s sUAS Facilities map, or we as users need to speak with our budgets and purchase/develop other platforms.

-Angel

 

[sar104]

Hello ajkm,

please understand that there is a difference between DJI's

Hello,

Thank you for posting this. You strengthened my point. If everyone will please refer to this poster’s two maps. The area in which we needed to operate has an DJI imposed restriction extending into it from the North even though we were authorized by the FAA for flight up to 150ft AGL. We were unable to depart or even start our motors due to this DJI issue. We were unable to complete our mission.

The original poster for this thread and the rest of the Mavic Pro community are right to be concerned about this. DJI can keep enacting all of the arbitrary restrictions that they so please. However, to find an end to this particular issue, either DJI needs to better align their no-fly restrictions with those of the FAA’s sUAS Facilities map, or we as users need to speak with our budgets and purchase/develop other platforms.

-Angel

There are definitely a few small areas there where the DJI restricted zone covers non-zero LAANC airspace. But again - is this a common enough situation to require switching to a different platform entirely? Many (most?) news organizations do use DJI aircraft, so presumably that's not a widely held opinion.

 

[Drone on]

Sure - if your method of researching a moderately expensive purchase is to watch a promotional video or two and look at advertisements then you won't know about it. Your idea of real is my idea of completely lazy, and I have zero sympathy in that case.

As for the completely different issue of knowing the applicable laws, do car brochures include detail on federal and state traffic law?

regarding familiarity with air space regulations before purchasing a drone for the first time, which was my argument, I'll start a poll on this forum.

Regarding traffic laws it's assumed you have a license before purchasing the car, and are therefore already familiar with road laws where as few, if any, first time drone buyer has a license to fly the drone so there should be no presumption of air space regulation familiarity.

 

[AngelAndres]

I am now at wits end. Cannot take off it is not the drone it is the DJI go app. I have bought an Autel evo but its unlevel horizen cannot be corrected. How many 107 operators are prevented from doing legitimate jobs because of this. I would willingly and love to spend necessary mony to get Mavic 2 pro, but fear I will not be able to take off. a,.Can anyone recommend drone with iris control and no GEO fencing. The Anaffi does not meet the target neither does the Yuneek H +. Would love to know how many 107 operators are affected by DJI GEO fencing

Hi,

I’m sorry this keeps happening to you. Our own nationwide organization suffers from a similar issue from time to time using DJI hardware. We have a few drones from other companies to supplement where DJI lacks. However, I know that buying a second drone is cost prohibitive for many small business owners.

Did you by chance get a working solution from @brettbrandon for your specific model? If so, any chance you’d be willing to pass along the solution to me?

Thanks,

-Angel

 

[sar104]

regarding familiarity with air space regulations before purchasing a drone for the first time, which was my argument, I'll start a poll on this forum.

Regarding traffic laws it's assumed you have a license before purchasing the car, and are therefore already familiar with road laws where as few, if any, first time drone buyer has a license to fly the drone so there should be no presumption of air space regulation familiarity.

So now you think it's the responsibility of the manufacturer to train the users in the applicable laws? But if they put in hardware controls to help users obey the law then they are being unreasonable?

 

[jspil]

DJI software doesn't prevent you from taking off unless you are in a restricted zone - you just have to self-unlock.

Then I am really at a loss as to exactly what is preventing me from takeoff. I am definitely not in a restricted zone. I am in class D airspace, always have been(my home at least). As I said in an earlier post it dose not happen most of the time. I usually get a clearance through Airmap and then go through the phone number confirmation and checking the boxes. The display then reads "unlock successful" yet the upper left of the screen remains red and displays "cannot takeoff". I included a screenshot of this also in an earlier post in this thread. I have sent DJI an email explaining this also with a screenshot. So far they have asked me to send them detailed GPS coordinates of where I have been experiencing the issue.

 

[sar104]

Then I am really at a loss as to exactly what is preventing me from takeoff. I am definitely not in a restricted zone. I am in class D airspace, always have been(my home at least). As I said in an earlier post it dose not happen most of the time. I usually get a clearance through Airmap and then go through the phone number confirmation and checking the boxes. The display then reads "unlock successful" yet the upper left of the screen remains red and displays "cannot takeoff". I included a screenshot of this also in an earlier post in this thread. I have sent DJI an email explaining this also with a screenshot. So far they have asked me to send them detailed GPS coordinates of where I have been experiencing the issue.

Right - and when you click "OK", the "cannot take off" message doesn't change?

 

[DanMan32]

App is often not clear why it won't let you fly. It might not be due to geofence. If it is because of being in a blue or red zone, the RC itself will show NFZ.
Also if you succeed in unlocking a blue zone, it disappears from the map in the app.

 

[Thomas B]

Right - and when you click "OK", the "cannot take off" message doesn't change?

View attachment 80738

Be sure you select the “OK” button as @sar104 suggests... it is not obviously a button on a small screen... maybe even need to scroll down to see it.

 

[Drone on]

So now you think it's the responsibility of the manufacturer to train the users in the applicable laws? But if they put in hardware controls to help users obey the law then they are being unreasonable?

Not train, rather inform.
And not the manufacturer, but in the US, the FAA. If the FAA believes a drone can take down a passenger jet, than they need to inform prospective buyers how seriously the FAA consider drone flight, that the FAA does not consider a drone a toy, and to do so before the sale. If the FAA believes that a drone can take down a passenger jet, than they need to treat it like a potential lethal weapon, not unlike gun sales. I'll stop short of background checks. I think it's a toy.

To give some means by which a prospective buyer can check to see if the areas they are excited to photograph will be affected, and to make it clear that if you attempt to fly in these areas, the motors won't start.

I assert that most people buying a drone for the first time are not aware that they cannot fly in national parks, state parks, fly over buildings, fly over crowds, that they must maintain VLOS, restricted to certain altitudes in certain areas, register the drone, ask for permission to fly, understand controlled and not controlled airspace, the list of restrictions goes on and on.

I believe that if prospective buyers were to learn of all the restrictions, they would abandon buying a drone. Many people give it up for these reasons, after they have spent the money.
The retailer has no requirement to inform people, and they don't.
I assert that most people buying a drone for the first time do not even know how to turn it on. Look at the success of many youtube influencers who got their start with a 'how to' around the MP1.

I assert most people think of a drone as a toy, and not a UAS regulated by the FAA. I doubt any first time drone buyers make that association.

 

[sar104]

Not train, rather inform.
And not the manufacturer, but in the US, the FAA. If the FAA believes a drone can take down a passenger jet, than they need to inform prospective buyers how seriously the FAA consider drone flight, that the FAA does not consider a drone a toy, and to do so before the sale. If the FAA believes that a drone can take down a passenger jet, than they need to treat it like a potential lethal weapon, not unlike gun sales. I'll stop short of background checks. I think it's a toy.

To give some means by which a prospective buyer can check to see if the areas they are excited to photograph will be affected, and to make it clear that if you attempt to fly in these areas, the motors won't start.

I assert that most people buying a drone for the first time are not aware that they cannot fly in national parks, state parks, fly over buildings, fly over crowds, that they must maintain VLOS, restricted to certain altitudes in certain areas, register the drone, ask for permission to fly, understand controlled and not controlled airspace, the list of restrictions goes on and on.

I believe that if prospective buyers were to learn of all the restrictions, they would abandon buying a drone. Many people give it up for these reasons, after they have spent the money.
The retailer has no requirement to inform people, and they don't.
I assert that most people buying a drone for the first time do not even know how to turn it on. Look at the success of many youtube influencers who got their start with a 'how to' around the MP1.

I assert most people think of a drone as a toy, and not a UAS regulated by the FAA. I doubt any first time drone buyers make that association.

And how, exactly, do you think the FAA is going to achieve all of that? Anyway - this is just going around in circles. You don't seem to have thought any of it through, and every time I respond you change your position.

 

[tmtwomey]

App is often not clear why it won't let you fly. It might not be due to geofence. If it is because of being in a blue or red zone, the RC itself will show NFZ.
Also if you succeed in unlocking a blue zone, it disappears from the map in the app.

I had the same issue that @jspil is reporting. I got LAANC clearance to fly in a favorite spot that is over water and under the approach/departure for a Class C airport (a Blue area in DJI's GeoFencing). I fly here often and always have to self unlock on site. The remote, as usual, said in NFZ when I started up this morning. I did the self unlock, including click on OK at the end. The remote continued to say NFZ and refused to let me start the motors. I tried several times including powering everything down before giving up and going home. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[Drone on]

And how, exactly, do you think the FAA is going to achieve all of that? Anyway - this is just going around in circles. You don't seem to have thought any of it through, and every time I respond you change your position.

An exam

 

[sar104]

An exam

So finally we get back to an exam. The FAA exam perhaps - the one that will be implemented later this year?

 

[wsteele]

The issue I described in an earlier post just happened to me. I'm going to put a screenshot of what I see when it occurs. The only thing I can come up with is that maybe the fly safe (I think that's what it's called but I'm not sure) needs to be updated. It's not a huge deal as I'm not 107 certified yet. I am taking the test in early October and plan on starting a small side business. If this happened while in front of clients that would be frustrating and embarrassing. View attachment 80691

Is that an "OK" you need to acknowledge next?