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Why I do believe there's a HUGE problem with the Mavic Mini - Flew AWAY the 2nd day

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One of the judgement errors I've made is that I've scanned both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands with my mobile phone (I have a phone dedicated to data hotspot, Wi-Fi scans and other tasks) assuming the 5 GHz band would be the same as the Wi-Fi standard because I've heard it said several times in the videos so I just assumed... and I assumed it wrong.

I have no idea what there was on the 5.8 GHz spectrum. This I admit is a novice error.

If say the 5.8 GHz was full, considering the 2.4 GHz might have been completely saturated when sampling all the lengths and heights this still doesn't explain why I haven't got notices of interference, weak connection, adjusting antennas or else...

You have some big logic errors here. You have heard people talk about the uplink and downlink.

The Controller is a Wifi TX and RX. The Drone is a Wifi RX and TX.

The controller has a specific Power rating for Wifi for broadcast. It has reasonable antenna.
The Drone has a lower power rating for Wifi Broadcast. It does not have great antenna.

The distance specification from DJI does not relate to the Power of the Controller (This is the Power rating that is used in their documentation) But relates to the combination of the Controller and the Drone.

You cannot use any device to measure WIFi interference.

This is the reason why. You do this from the position of the Controller and the results will give you the perspective of the Controller. But the more susceptible is the drone and you have no idea of what the interference is around the drone as it is mobile and can fly into dense Wifi interference without you knowledge it would just report that the connection is being impeded.

Which you had. I read your total blog article. You did many things that were what I would call poor practice and an incident was inevitable.

Your warning was the "channel change" advice you got. The EU (CE) MM is 5.8 and 2.4Ghz. When the Spark was released it had some significant issues with WiFi interference and country localisation. This indication would be that it had roamed into a high interference area on the current allocated channel / band and needed to renegotiate a change in the channel number or band.

If it dropped the connection to the controller it would attempt a renegotiation of channels and frequencies. During this renegotiation it would continue with the commands that it last received. i.e. flying forward at full tilt would continue in that attitude while negotiatiating.

A few Sparks were lost in this fashion but fortunately the obstacle avoidance could help in some cases. DJI rectified this issue. I don't know if something similar exists with the MM yet. Mine has been flawless to date. But I have the FCC version.

No obstacle avoidance on the MM and no hover if you move into a GPS dead zone (Not enough sats to get an accurate GPS fix) and you are above the optical flow sensors height limit on the bottom of the drone.

Another factor is the signal to noise. This can have extremely bad impacts. The complete loss of signal is good. The high Signal to noise ratio is very bad.

I fly many manufacturers drones, helicopters, fixed wing both electric, gas, nitro and kero turbines.

Setting up a Radio to these models have one thing in common. You have to program the signal loss behaviour on your controller and it transmits the commands to the RX on linkage. so the RX knows what to do in the event of a signal loss.

If you are programming a GPS drone you would set a RTH. On a fixed wing you would drop the throttle and set then flight controls to neutral and hope that you got signal back before it crashed.

Now the RXs in the models keep a track of the incoming signal. Its not about signal strength but the packet errors in the signal itself. Each command for position of all the controls (and it sends these constantly in its data stream) has a checksum so that the RX can tell if the command is corrupted. It counts these errors and if its reaches a preset continuous limit it will activate its loss of signal logic. But if it gets a good packet it sets the count back to zero.

So in the case of a MM. if you got high signal to noise at the MM end it may not enter into signal loss RTH but respond to commands from the controller as good packet were received. So no auto RTH depending on what you did with the controls, some commands would be accepted. Including RTH and Cancel RTH.

The other factor is the direction of flight. This is driven by the compass and not the GPS. In a dense urban environment, the possibility of magnetic anomalies is significant. You have to keep clear of all buildings particularly any that have steel structures. I don't know what the

Tower you were next to was made of, but way too many potential compass interference possibilities for safe flight.

In reading your Blog you were continually trying "remote landings" behind objects. This is highly dangerous for a number of reasons. GPS shadows, compass interference, no VLOS so you cannot see what is not in the camera in front of you. (If it is working at the time). And no obstacle avoidance at all on the MM.

You were doing things that I would not do, even on my Phantom 4 Pro Plus or my MAvic 2s with all round obstacle avoidance. To do that on an entry level drone with minimum protection sensors is going to fail at some point. It was inevitable.

Now, as you don't have the logs off the drone what happened is only conjecture. You only have the perspective of the controller.

I would suspect that basically you ran into something, while still in control of the drone.

A good hypothesis based on the information posted above.

I would classify this completely as Operator Error. Not Pilot error. Asking the drone to perform in a hostile environment, in an unsafe manner, without adequate sensors, and an operator that was unaware of the dangers involved and the correct operating capability and warnings the MM did provide.
 
Except that it didn't successfully execute failsafe RTH - that part is, as yet, unexplained.

I would suspect that this is due to a High Signal to Noise ratio rather than a complete loss of signal. On RTH the drones do wait for some time to either negotiate a different channel of see if the signal clears up.

With a high error rate on the incoming signal it would keep resetting its wait time as the odd good packet was received. The controller would not be getting valid data packets back from the drone so it would be virtually invisible to the controller and logs.

But if enough clear packets were received it would operate on those control signals. The OP did say he requested RTH multiple times and operated the controls.

I Suspect that if he left things alone, or turned off the controller the drone would have responded correctly.

i.e If he left the controls centred it should have auto landed on low battery. If he powered off the controller it should have activated a real RTH.

Not an explanation as such but a reasonable working hypothesis. Very difficult to test. But it is consistent with my experience on other models.
 
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Concerning these wind related issues, I have to put some of the blame on DJI. Their Quick Start guide for the mini makes no mention of wind. Many folks might consider a quick start guide to be enough to get them going. But in reality, DJI's QuickStart guide merely tells you where the controls are and what they do.

Then there's the full blown manual itself. You have to wade through 36 pages before you find any mention of the prohibition concerning excessive winds. It's listed as 8 m/s or about 18 mph. No mention of the fact that a 5 mph breeze at ground level could easily exceed 18 mph at flight level.

I understand there has to be a limit to how much information can be placed in a manual, but DJI must have been aware of the Mini's sensitivity to wind and how easily it can be flown with the wind only to be unable to make it home when returning against the wind.
 
Concerning these wind related issues, I have to put some of the blame on DJI. Their Quick Start guide for the mini makes no mention of wind. Many folks might consider a quick start guide to be enough to get them going. But in reality, DJI's QuickStart guide merely tells you where the controls are and what they do.

Then there's the full blown manual itself. You have to wade through 36 pages before you find any mention of the prohibition concerning excessive winds. It's listed as 8 m/s or about 18 mph. No mention of the fact that a 5 mph breeze at ground level could easily exceed 18 mph at flight level.

I understand there has to be a limit to how much information can be placed in a manual, but DJI must have been aware of the Mini's sensitivity to wind and how easily it can be flown with the wind only to be unable to make it home when returning against the wind.

I don't believe, as SAR has mentioned already that this was an issue in this case from his evaluation of the Controller to App logs.

DJI did release a FW update for the errors around not enough power. I personally have not seen these before or after the update on my MM. But I haven't been flying at all in windy conditions.

DJI does not mention wind in the QSG as you have advised. As a new operator as the OP with his first drone, I think to would be incumbent upon him to read the full manual.

Even so the telemetry does advise of strong wind warnings. If you ignore them, its at your own peril.
 
I would suspect that this is due to a High Signal to Noise ratio rather than a complete loss of signal. On RTH the drones do wait for some time to either negotiate a different channel of see if the signal clears up.

With a high error rate on the incoming signal it would keep resetting its wait time as the odd good packet was received. The controller would not be getting valid data packets back from the drone so it would be virtually invisible to the controller and logs.

But if enough clear packets were received it would operate on those control signals. The OP did say he requested RTH multiple times and operated the controls.

I Suspect that if he left things alone, or turned off the controller the drone would have responded correctly.

i.e If he left the controls centred it should have auto landed on low battery. If he powered off the controller it should have activated a real RTH.

Not an explanation as such but a reasonable working hypothesis. Very difficult to test. But it is consistent with my experience on other models.

In isolation that's a credible hypothesis and if correct, is one that might be expected to be somewhat common. However, in hundreds of such cases that I've examined, I've never seen that happen before, which suggests to me that something else was going on.
 
Right - but the characteristics of your flight indicate that the problem was wind speeds that the Mini couldn't handle. The flight log would confirm that if you feel like posting it. That's a different problem than the OPs.
sar104, I realize that Mavic Mini could get into a trouble fighting a strong head wind, and it could be my mistake flying it in such conditions. But the disturbing part is that it was flying just fine for the first four minutes of the flight, and then it all the sudden lost the video feed and ability to be operated from RC while it was happily drifting away and sending to the same RC all the telemetry. I think there is definitely something DJI should be looking into...
 
sar104, I realize that Mavic Mini could get into a trouble fighting a strong head wind, and it could be my mistake flying it in such conditions. But the disturbing part is that it was just fine flying the first four minutes of the flight, and then it all the sudden lost the video feed and ability to be operated from RC while it was happily drifting away and sending to the same RC all the telemetry. I think there is definitely something DJI should be looking into...

While there do seem to be a couple of unexplained intermittent behaviors with the Mini, none of the wind-dominated incidents that I've looked at were unusual. But I really can't comment any further in your case without seeing the flight log.
 
Concerning these wind related issues, I have to put some of the blame on DJI. Their Quick Start guide for the mini makes no mention of wind. Many folks might consider a quick start guide to be enough to get them going. But in reality, DJI's QuickStart guide merely tells you where the controls are and what they do.
I would also say that many youtube reviewers could be more careful telling to the viewers stories about how surprisingly good the Mavic Mini handles a strong wind. I kind of relied on them, and as the result - lost my drone on the fourth outing with it... :(
 
I would also say that many youtube reviewers could be more careful telling to the viewers stories about how surprisingly good the Mavic Mini handles a strong wind. I kind of relied on them, and as the result - lost my drone on the fourth outing with it... :(

Unfortunately YouTube is just a disastrous mess of misinformation on most subjects, and anyone blindly trusting YouTube advice that contradicts manufacturer specifications is just asking for trouble.
 
Unfortunately YouTube is just a disastrous mess of misinformation on most subjects, and anyone blindly trusting YouTube advice that contradicts manufacturer specifications is just asking for trouble.
Plus those reviewers were all on the payroll
 
Unfortunately YouTube is just a disastrous mess of misinformation on most subjects, and anyone blindly trusting YouTube advice that contradicts manufacturer specifications is just asking for trouble.
Unfortnately, can not rely on manufacturer specifications either. I have a Mavic 2 Zoom, which uses that fantastic DJI OcuSync 2.0 techology for maintaining Full HD video feed and ensures reliable control on the distances up to 8 km. In reality, it often looses RC connection just in direct visibility to the RC, sometimes just being in 50 meters away. Sent it to DJI HQ for checkouts, and they did not find anything wrong with it. Feel really uncomfortable flying it now...
 
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Unfortnately, can not rely on manufacturer specifications either. I have a Mavic 2 Zoom, which uses that fantastic DJI OcuSync 2.0 techology for maintaining Full HD video feed and ensures reliable control on the distances up to 8 km. In reality, it often looses RC connection just in direct visibility to the RC, sometimes just being in 50 meters away. Sent it to DJI HQ for checkouts, and they did not find anything wrong with it. Feel really uncomfortable flying it now...

Right - but that's a false comparison. The range specifications are the maximum that can be achieved with direct line of sight, antennas correctly oriented, no interference and hardware in functioning properly. The fact that you are getting much less doesn't mean that the specs are wrong - it means that one of those conditions above is not being met. In contrast, the firmware-defined maximum tilt angles that constrain maximum airspeed are not going to be exceeded.
 
sar104, that's all correct, but when a $1500 worth drone, using super-duper technology, claimed by the manufacturer as a break-trough, loses connection in the middle of flight when you see it just in front of you, it is really disappointing. I don't expect (and neither need) it to have a reliable connection at 8 km range, all I wanted from that drone was to maintain a good control while it is in direct line of sight, but I don't get even that...
 
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sar104, that's all correct, but when a $1500 worth drone, using super-duper technology, claimed by the manufacturer as a break-trough, loses connection in the middle of flight when you see it just in front of you, it is really disappointing. I don't expect (and neither need) it to have a reliable connection at 8 km range, all I wanted from that drone was to maintain a good control while it is in direct line of sight, but I don't get even that...

Not disputing any of that - just pointing out that DJI specifications are accurate.
 
I would say they as accurate as they are vague at the same time, in order to cover themselves from a negative customers feedback.

I probably should have added that the problems with losing connectivity normally arise during the flights, otherwise I would not even send the drone in the air in the first place. I have learned to do my pre-flight checks, thanks to many incidents I had before with my DJI Spark and Mavic Air. And normally, I don't change the home point location, just stay at the same spot. Mavic Zoom gets in the air and operates normally for a few minutes - I can fly it back and forth, but from my experience with it - the drone could just drop connection at any moment in not a good reason. May be it is over heating at the drone or RC, may be some wind gusts, I can't say, and neither can DJI support ...
 
I actually managed to pull out the log for that last flight. Thanks to the same sar104's retrieval guide! ...
Apparently, the reason was the "Not Enough Force/ESC Error" error which began to appear after 4 minutes of flight, when the battery depleted to 60%. Before that point, it was flying just beautifully, with the same wind and same altitude. It also seems that the telemetry kept coming all the time it was drifting away, but the video feed and RC control was lost, so I did not have a chance to save it
How about posting the flight data rather than a picture of an Airdata report.
That would help find out what really happened.
The Not Enough Force message is usually meaningless a false alarm that shows in Airdata reports but not in the actual data.
I doubt it had anything to do with your incident.
 
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............ I have a Mavic 2 Zoom, which uses that fantastic DJI OcuSync 2.0 techology for maintaining Full HD video feed and ensures reliable control on the distances up to 8 km.
Operative phrase: "up to" 8km, which you might achieve if flying in the Bonnevile Salt Flats. Otherwise, maybe 3km and more likely 2km for a 100% uninterrupted signal if you're flying in your basic suburban neighborhood. My experience anyway.
 
Gentlemen... sorry to bother, I've already caused quite a stir with my entry. Can you discuss all this technical stuff in a more appropriate thread other than mine ? Thank you very much.
 
m80116, sorry for messing up your topic, I just thought my case was very similar to yours misfortune...
 
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