Just to add to this, Geekbench can be very misleading at times because it is an architecture benchmark. I find a lot of people do not realize this, and very rarely is it explained by either Geekbench or the people publishing results (I don't mean you). That is why, for example, smartphone scores are sometimes compared to Intel CPU scores, even though there is still an enormous performance variance and it would of course be impossible for a 5W passively cooled phone CPU to match a 95W actively cooled desktop CPU.
H.265 Codec and MacBook Pro
- Thread starter maxwebbi
- Start date
Just to add to this, Geekbench can be very misleading at times because it is an architecture benchmark. I find a lot of people do not realize this, and very rarely is it explained by either Geekbench or the people publishing results (I don't mean you). That is why, for example, smartphone scores are sometimes compared to Intel CPU scores, even though there is still an enormous performance variance and it would of course be impossible for a 5W passively cooled phone CPU to match a 95W actively cooled desktop CPU.
Kilrah
Well-Known Member
Read the thread, it "works" as in the software reads it, just painfully slow because hardware support is lacking. And hardware support can only be added... with new hardware.
Brizzel81
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It's not the logo for me its the quality and reliability, not to mention the best customer support I have ever experienced. EVERY PC has given me nothing but problems in the past. Viruses, crashes, and just plane useability. I've had my current MBP for five years now, with only two hiccups. Very simple fixes and apple support was always there to help me through it at no cost. I don't even run anti virus software. Try that with a PC lol!!Welcome to Apple haha. For almost half that money you can get a laptop with several times the power without the Apple logo
I am not looking to have a "PC vs Mac" debate, but I do think exaggerated and polarizing comments like this deserve to be addressed from a more reasonable and informed perspective.
I have in fact tried just "that with a PC lol!!", over dozens of personal PCs and literal hundreds of company PCs over the last 3 decades. I have literally never had a PC virus in my life on my PC or any of those that I managed. The notion that PCs always get viruses is plainly false and often grossly overblown. It is true that there are more viruses out there for PCs, but that is because PCs are orders of magnitude more popular/common than Macs. Viruses are a risk to all computer owners (Including Mac) and using a simple built-in antivirus is all 99% of users need to never experience a virus. Windows 10 for example automatically handles everything related to that in the background, the user doesn't even have to think. Windows Defender in fact now can run in a sandbox, which is an industry first.
From a quality standpoint, Macbooks are riddled with problems and have been for many years now. I have a colleague who is a computer repair person and he always jokes that Apple keeps him in business. You can look up all the issues they have had with keyboards, screen back-lighting, and dust ingress just to name a few. Also these are not one-offs, they are widespread and some have class action law suits behind them. There are no fewer than three class action law suits against defective keyboards alone. The primary internal components are the same off-the-shelf components as the entire industry uses (CPUs, GPUs, batteries, SSDs, DIMMs, etc.) - there is nothing special about them at all. I am not saying other laptops are necessarily any better, only that there is nothing special about Apple reliability and the nature of how laptops are designed in general is what makes them unreliable (high heat, slim designs forcing them to run at thermal limits, rougher life being transported, etc.)
Regarding external build quality, it is not hard to find a PC with the same if not better build quality and for a lot less money (Dell XPS 15, Lenovo X1 Carbon/Extreme, etc.) The Verge, a notoriously Apple-biased tech review blog (to the point there are internet memes about them), recently wrote that the XPS 15 was the highest quality laptop they have ever used - they are far from the final word on the matter, but I found that to be an interesting comment considering the source. So no, I don't think you are getting anything special from a quality standpoint when you are buying a Mac. Quality is generally on par with other high-end laptops, and they have their own laundry list of reliability and quality control issues.
Your experience with PCs is not the norm. I have been using PC's (and Macs) since the 90's, and further to that I used to be an IT Manager overseeing ~300 Windows PC's. I have literally never had a PC virus in my entire life, and that is even with other family members and coworkers using those PCs that are far more likely to just click on something malicious. You should absolutely be running antivirus software on your Mac, they are by no means immune, and more and more commonly these days they are being specifically targeted with malware/ransomware because of the typical Apple owner thinking they are immune. Not running an antivirus because the "genius" at the Apple store told you you're immune is just silly.
If I may add my own anecdotal experience, I also own a lot of Apple products, and I have a 2012 Macbook that is no longer usable because internal components are failing, the battery no longer holds a charge (only works if plugged in), one of the keys on the keyboard doesn't register, there is a dead pixel on the screen, and it is so slow that it is unusable by any reasonable standard (boot up takes approximately 10 minutes alone). For comparison, I have a 2012 Asus Zenbook that exhibits none of these issues and runs the same as it does the day I bought it (only faster now thanks to W10), maintains over 90% of it's original battery capacity, and cold-boots to log-in in literally 5 seconds. I am not saying this is going to be everyone's experience, but when you say something like "Try that with a PC lol!!" I could say the exact same thing about Macs. Fact of the matter is small sample sizes don't really mean much either way, and do not represent any kind of industry trend. The overwhelming majority of both PCs and Macs will probably not have any significant issues over a normal product lifespan, especially if the user is responsible.
Also remember there are more computers running the Windows 10 operating system alone than there are Macs in existence. There are both advantages and disadvantages to being by far the most popular computing platform, but the advantages tend to outweigh the disadvantages.
I have three devices that play the H.265 Mavic 2 video just fine as follows:
1. A 2009 Intel I7 975 Processor in a 2009 Asusu motherboard with a Nvidia GT1070 Graphics card - plays with very little system usage.
2. An I7 Surface Pro 6 stock that plays again with little usage or struggle.
2. A Samsung Note 8 that again plays the video with no problems or hiccups.
Have found no issues playing the format except on OneDrive on the Samsung Note 8 because the OneDrive Android App does not support the H.265 format. I have to copy the video out of the OneDrive folder and then it plays just fine with no issues.
I hope this info is useful.
Dave
1. A 2009 Intel I7 975 Processor in a 2009 Asusu motherboard with a Nvidia GT1070 Graphics card - plays with very little system usage.
2. An I7 Surface Pro 6 stock that plays again with little usage or struggle.
2. A Samsung Note 8 that again plays the video with no problems or hiccups.
Have found no issues playing the format except on OneDrive on the Samsung Note 8 because the OneDrive Android App does not support the H.265 format. I have to copy the video out of the OneDrive folder and then it plays just fine with no issues.
I hope this info is useful.
Dave
I've an aging i5 based 8Gb laptop that I use for editing on the move using Davinci Resolve Free 15.
It will not play h265 4k 10 bit videos without stuttering.
I film in 4k Dlog 10 bit and record as MOV files. I run the files through ffmpeg to make my own 720p proxies (can't see that much difference on a 1080p screen with real estate lost to editing dials and controls) and save as prores 10 bit as MOV files (with the same filenames as the originals but in a different directory).
I cut, edit and grade using the proxies and my laptop can keep up. I then relink the files to the originals before a final render (that takes ages!).
There's a way of generating proxies from inside Resolve (and other editors) but I like the way I can control resolution and quality of the proxies using my method.
It's not ideal (making the proxies takes three times the length of the originals) but keeps me chugging along so don't despair if your hardware isn't perfect. All the software can be free as well and the technique is PC/Mac agnostic.
I do have a desktop with h265 support built into my 1050ti GPU that I can just about get away with editing 4k without too many tricks.
It does amaze me that my Huawei phone can play the files straight from the SD card though. I tend to review on the phone first before making the proxies on the laptop (only when on the move though).
It will not play h265 4k 10 bit videos without stuttering.
I film in 4k Dlog 10 bit and record as MOV files. I run the files through ffmpeg to make my own 720p proxies (can't see that much difference on a 1080p screen with real estate lost to editing dials and controls) and save as prores 10 bit as MOV files (with the same filenames as the originals but in a different directory).
I cut, edit and grade using the proxies and my laptop can keep up. I then relink the files to the originals before a final render (that takes ages!).
There's a way of generating proxies from inside Resolve (and other editors) but I like the way I can control resolution and quality of the proxies using my method.
It's not ideal (making the proxies takes three times the length of the originals) but keeps me chugging along so don't despair if your hardware isn't perfect. All the software can be free as well and the technique is PC/Mac agnostic.
I do have a desktop with h265 support built into my 1050ti GPU that I can just about get away with editing 4k without too many tricks.
It does amaze me that my Huawei phone can play the files straight from the SD card though. I tend to review on the phone first before making the proxies on the laptop (only when on the move though).
Brizzel81
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kilomikebravo
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Brizzel: There are certainly a fair number of things to dislike about PC's but I think most of the negativity stems from previous versions of the OS. Windows 7 did pretty well over XP but Windows 10 is really a game changer in the PC world. Granted, it's not as pretty or as UI-pleasurable as Sierra or Mojave but there are also advantages to PC's over Macs. I won't bore our readers with a list of those but suffice it to say that either platform is more than good enough for what we need as drone flying cinematic GODS! <grin>
For those thinking about upgrading their PC's, I did that recently (i9-9900, M.2 drives, 1070 TI, 64gb memory,) and while the previous hardware wouldn't play full-rez H.265 smoothly, the updated machine plays them perfectly so no more proxies. How you have the patience to wait so long for proxy creation is a mystery to me. Were I you, I would upgrade my hardware as I couldn't tolerate those long wait times not to mention the build up of proxy files.
For those thinking about upgrading their PC's, I did that recently (i9-9900, M.2 drives, 1070 TI, 64gb memory,) and while the previous hardware wouldn't play full-rez H.265 smoothly, the updated machine plays them perfectly so no more proxies. How you have the patience to wait so long for proxy creation is a mystery to me. Were I you, I would upgrade my hardware as I couldn't tolerate those long wait times not to mention the build up of proxy files.
Brizzel81
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What brand and model of PC. I do know you get a whole lot more bang for your buck in the PCU world. Just looking at my options. Price as well, of course?
I had a late 2008 13" MacBook which I believe was the first unibody MacBook for just about 10 years. Upgraded the ram to 4gb and replaced the superdrive with an SSD. Had to eventually remove the battery because it was bulging into the trackpad but other than that it was a great machine. It just never would even play 1080p video.
I upgraded this past August to a 13" TouchBar MBP which I believe is the most recent version. My fault, but I wish I had done my research and knew that I could not upgrade the Ram or SSD later on. Being stuck with 8gb is kind of a bummer. Here are the specs below:
I have been shooting in H.264 but will I have a problem with H.265? I guess there is only one way to find out but I still have some buyers remorse about this.
On the other hand, if I had configured to the i7, 16gb RAM and 500gb SSD it would have cost me about $1,000 more. I got my current one on special from B&H with no tax collected at the time for $1,600.
I haven't really had any problems with it so far. The most that I push it, is exporting 250 plus photos at a time with LR5 for Hyperlapses and then editing with FCP and it seems to have "ok" render times. Anyways, just wanted to chime in. Thanks ahead for any insight!
I upgraded this past August to a 13" TouchBar MBP which I believe is the most recent version. My fault, but I wish I had done my research and knew that I could not upgrade the Ram or SSD later on. Being stuck with 8gb is kind of a bummer. Here are the specs below:
I have been shooting in H.264 but will I have a problem with H.265? I guess there is only one way to find out but I still have some buyers remorse about this.
On the other hand, if I had configured to the i7, 16gb RAM and 500gb SSD it would have cost me about $1,000 more. I got my current one on special from B&H with no tax collected at the time for $1,600.
I haven't really had any problems with it so far. The most that I push it, is exporting 250 plus photos at a time with LR5 for Hyperlapses and then editing with FCP and it seems to have "ok" render times. Anyways, just wanted to chime in. Thanks ahead for any insight!
kilomikebravo
Well-Known Member
Ahem... @sar104 ahem.. lookin for your .02 here. And can anyone tell me if my processor is Kaby Lake? coffee lake? Ricki lake?
That's a Coffee Lake processor. It has hardware decoding and encoding for H.265. It's a bit limited on RAM, but it will work.
brett8883
Well-Known Member
Ok guys I admit I did not read the entire thread here but I have the same exact Mac as the OP and had the same exact issue as the OP until I figured it out.
10-bit D-Log is log format we all know that, it has to be processed before it will look good. If you are going to go through the trouble of shooting in d-log you might as well do the post processing correctly too. To process any footage the correct way you need to take your footage and transcode to an intermediate codec. In this situation take your HVEC D-Log 10 bit file and transcode it to ProRes. This is most quickly done with the native encoder in finder but you could use Compressor or AME as well.
Mac reads and plays back 10 bit ProRes just fine. Once you have done your editing and color grading you can render out as ProRes(for archival purposes) and then use finder to encode a to HVEC once again if youd like(it will take forever.) The Mac seems to like its HVEC but if you encode with handbrake or some other non apple encoder it doesnt work for some reason.
10-bit D-Log is log format we all know that, it has to be processed before it will look good. If you are going to go through the trouble of shooting in d-log you might as well do the post processing correctly too. To process any footage the correct way you need to take your footage and transcode to an intermediate codec. In this situation take your HVEC D-Log 10 bit file and transcode it to ProRes. This is most quickly done with the native encoder in finder but you could use Compressor or AME as well.
Mac reads and plays back 10 bit ProRes just fine. Once you have done your editing and color grading you can render out as ProRes(for archival purposes) and then use finder to encode a to HVEC once again if youd like(it will take forever.) The Mac seems to like its HVEC but if you encode with handbrake or some other non apple encoder it doesnt work for some reason.
Kilrah
Well-Known Member
Transcoding to an intermediate codec plays no role in doing it "the correct way". The only thing it does is improve performance.
If you've got enough performance without it it's pointless to do it, it just takes you time and space.
brett8883
Well-Known Member
Well if it solves the OPs issue then it IS the correct way to do it and ISN’T pointless.
And now I’m no expert in the all the technical aspects but I was taught to color grade and edit using an intermediate codec because of the chroma subsampling of a more highly compressed format. You might not ever be able to reproduce the original values but by transcoding to to an intermediate format and then applying edits that means your Master will have higher chroma detail.
ProRes White Paper
You also get a lossless alpha channel on ProRes 4444 which will improve the compression quality of blended layers when you encode your master into your delivery codec.
I guess those things don’t matter if you aren’t gonna make a master file.
Kilrah
Well-Known Member
Converting your subsampled source to intermediate won't gain you anything, the info that isn't there still isn't there.
This DID have a valid point a decade or 2 ago for another reason, but is obsolete now. For performance/memory reasons old editing software used to make their calculations in the same format as the source, so yes if you used an intermediate codec with no subsampling you'd get a benefit since that would make the software switch to working with better internal calculations (you'd also typically have to convert everything into one of few formats the software could work with).
But that's irrelevant now, given hardware performance nowadays and most importantly the need for compatibility with tons of different formats in current software the internal processing has nothing to do with the source format anymore, it's either explitely configured separately or always the best it can handle and any source material is converted to it on the fly, so you gain nothing by having an intermediate (except for the decoding speed as mentioned).
Skylake chips don't have hardware accelerated HEVC decode support, which could be the main cause. The easiest way to troubleshoot HEVC video not playing on your Mac comes to replace it with 7th Kaby/Coffee Lake Intel Core processor. If you don't want to do that, you have to make some concessions on video size and codec, for example, convert HEVC to H.264 for playing on your current MacBook.
For the record, my 2018 MBP(Coffee Lake) with TouchBar handles h.265 with no problems. If anyone is looking at that model. They did just upgrade the MBP’s again though.
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