How many 107 Licensed Users are prevented from taking off

[jspil]

Interestingly I fly with a CS and never ask DJI for clearance. I routinely fly in the fringes of regional and international airport airspace. I have long term clearance for my most commonly used practice area through the FAA DroneZone site (above).
“Can’t Take-off” May flicker for 1-2 seconds tops, but I have never been prevented from flying.
I use AirMap for clearance when needed.

I use Airmap as well and have had zero problems with it. My issue occurs after using Airmap to submit a flight plan, and receiving an authorization. It's the DJI software that's preventing me from taking off.

 

[sar104]

I use Airmap as well and have had zero problems with it. My issue occurs after using Airmap to submit a flight plan, and receiving an authorization. It's the DJI software that's preventing me from taking off.

DJI software doesn't prevent you from taking off unless you are in a restricted zone - you just have to self-unlock.

 

[Rvrrat14]

I recently flew a fire scene and received a message about a nearby RESTRICTED zone. It was the local jail within 1/2 mile from the scene. I was able to fly after cycling power. This jail does not appear on FAA restricted prison list nor on the online sectionals, UAS Forecast map, or Kittyhawk map. I contacted DJI and they told me I could submit a request but it could take up to a YEAR to process.

DJI adding restricted zones that are not restricted is not right to U.S. pilots flying 107 under FAA rules/regs. This is my concern. Also, custom unlocking states it could take some time, and on an emergency scene I don’t have that time. So it’s Wait and See when you arrive on scene.

 

[sar104]

I recently flew a fire scene and received a message about a nearby RESTRICTED zone. It was the local jail within 1/2 mile from the scene. I was able to fly after cycling power. This jail does not appear on FAA restricted prison list nor on the online sectionals, UAS Forecast map, or Kittyhawk map. I contacted DJI and they told me I could submit a request but it could take up to a YEAR to process.

DJI adding restricted zones that are not restricted is not right to U.S. pilots flying 107 under FAA rules/regs. This is my concern. Also, custom unlocking states it could take some time, and on an emergency scene I don’t have that time. So it’s Wait and See when you arrive on scene.

Custom unlocking doesn't take a year, or anything close to that, but it's not going to be fast enough for your kind of example. Emergency response organizations can apply to have all geo restrictions removed permanently from listed aircraft, so that's one option if you fall into that category.

 

[Drone on]

I believe it to be the lack of software updating of the CS by DJI.

Well, I tried my CS this morning, and "Cannot take-off". At least it let me self-unlock.
An interesting aspect of this is that DJI Geo-Zone shows the spot as an authorization zone, but the CS popped up with Enhanced warning zone. My other flights in Enhanced Warning Zone did not require self-unlock. There/then, I had to just accept responsibility.
So, one more inconsistency.

Not any of this is a big deal, so long as the unlock works.

 

[Drone on]

I don’t follow the first 2 statements. Did you test it or not?

I flew this morning. I can't say the update made it worse, but there was no indication that it got better either.

 

[Rvrrat14]

Custom unlocking doesn't take a year, or anything close to that, but it's not going to be fast enough for your kind of example. Emergency response organizations can apply to have all geo restrictions removed permanently from listed aircraft, so that's one option if you fall into that category.

I did not ask for a CS and they said a year.

I ASKED for them to remove their NFZ.

 

[Drone on]

I did not ask for a CS and they said a year.

I ASKED for them to remove their BS NFZ.

I wasn't replying to your post.

BTW...might want to edit out the "BS", they are trying to make money on the forum, and that is not conducive to an advertising platform...just FYI

 

[sar104]

I did not ask for a CS and they said a year.

I ASKED for them to remove their BS NFZ.

What does a CS have to do with this? And I don't care what someone told you - custom unlocking doesn't take a year. As for asking them to remove the geo system from your aircraft - that's not going to happen. It's a limitation of the product that you bought. If you don't like it then you should not have bought it.

 

[Drone on]

What does a CS have to do with this? And I don't care what someone told you - custom unlocking doesn't take a year. As for asking them to remove the geo system from your aircraft - that's not going to happen. It's a limitation of the product that you bought. If you don't like it then you should not have bought it.

An earlier post noted that DJI might not update the CS with fly safe changes. Mine has been.

It's interesting that you mention the buy it part. I was wondering if there's any mention of these restrictions at the point of sale. I don't remember seeing any. How much due diligence is reasonable to expect from a would be battery operated flying camera customer? Would we be granted a refund after discovery? This is kind of like looking at a car that has a tachometer to 120, then later discovering there's a govenor throttling it down to 30.

 

[sar104]

An earlier post noted that DJI might not update the CS with fly safe changes. Mine has been.

It's interesting that you mention the buy it part. I was wondering if there's any mention of these restrictions at the point of sale. I don't remember seeing any. How much due diligence is reasonable to expect from a would be battery operated flying camera customer? Would we be granted a refund after discovery? This is kind of like looking at a car that has a tachometer to 120, then later discovering there's a govenor throttling it down to 30.

The Fly Safe geo system is well advertised, and linked from the product pages of all their aircraft. If anyone buys these aircraft without knowing about geofencing then they really are not paying attention at all. And again, the restricted zones that require custom unlocking are basically only the surface areas of larger airports, prisons and other infrastructure that is already federally restricted. Everything else can be self-unlocked, either in the field or in advance.

 

[AngelAndres]

DJI software doesn't prevent you from taking off unless you are in a restricted zone - you just have to self-unlock.

Not true.

There are two “levels” of locking by DJI. There is the ‘Geo Fence” that indeed allows you to self unlock. However, there is also the ‘NFZ’ which requires a process that can take up to five days (per DJI) via an online request through DJI’s website. That five day period completely goes against the intent of the FAA to provide instant authorization to Part107 Pilots.

Let me know if you need more detail about these two levels of unlocking.

-Angel

 

[AngelAndres]

The Fly Safe geo system is well advertised, and linked from the product pages of all their aircraft. If anyone buys these aircraft without knowing about geofencing then they really are not paying attention at all. And again, the restricted zones that require custom unlocking are basically only the surface areas of larger airports, prisons and other infrastructure that is already federally restricted. Everything else can be self-unlocked, either in the field or in advance.

Correct,

Bottom line. DJI drones are highly inadequate platforms for any operation requiring immediate access to every inch of airspace for which the FAA can provide a LAANC authorization. If you’re like us, a news organization regularly needing immediate access to areas covered by the FAA UAS Facilities map, and are not a “first responder” in DJI’s definition, then you will need another brand of sUAS.

DJI is not for every professional. The only way they’ll change anything is by sending them a message with our operational budgets and purchasing or building competing products.

-Angel

 

[Drone on]

The Fly Safe geo system is well advertised, and linked from the product pages of all their aircraft. If anyone buys these aircraft without knowing about geofencing then they really are not paying attention at all. And again, the restricted zones that require custom unlocking are basically only the surface areas of larger airports, prisons and other infrastructure that is already federally restricted. Everything else can be self-unlocked, either in the field or in advance.

Get real.
It may be published, but nobody looks into buying a drone to find out what it can't do, and drones are not advertised that way. You remember the goggles advertisement? In that ad, two teenagers are racing through the red canyon rocks as if they are invincible. There was no mention of having to have a spotter, and how could they possibly keep VLOS.
If drones were advertised that way, the disclaimer would be like the medicine adverts that, at the end, in fast speech, warn you your head may fall off it you take this.
I argue that first time buyers have no idea what geofencing is or does, or that it will affect their anticipated enjoyment like a wet blanket.

 

[sar104]

Not true.

There are two “levels” of locking by DJI. There is the ‘Geo Fence” that indeed allows you to self unlock. However, there is also the ‘NFZ’ which requires a process that can take up to five days (per DJI) via an online request through DJI’s website. That five day period completely goes against the intent of the FAA to provide instant authorization to Part107 Pilots.

Let me know if you need more detail about these two levels of unlocking.

-Angel

You have the terminology completely wrong. Unlocking is required in Enhanced Warning Zones (self-unlock, no account details needed), Authorization Zones (self-unlock, verified DJI account needed) and Restricted Zones (custom unlock). There is no such thing as a NFZ in the DJI geo system. There are also altitude restrictions in altitude zones, which are bypassed in the QEP or could be removed by a custom unlock request with FAA authorization evidence.

Anyone who needs details would be much better advised to visit the Fly Safe unlock site.

 

[sar104]

Correct,

Bottom line. DJI drones are highly inadequate platforms for any operation requiring immediate access to every inch of airspace for which the FAA can provide a LAANC authorization. If you’re like us, a news organization regularly needing immediate access to areas covered by the FAA UAS Facilities map, and are not a “first responder” in DJI’s definition, then you will need another brand of sUAS.

DJI is not for every professional. The only way they’ll change anything is by sending them a message with our operational budgets and purchasing or building competing products.

-Angel

That's probably fair, although in most places the impact of the restrictions is marginal. But I can imagine that in some locations, with some kinds of news coverage, it would be a problem. I'm curious - what kinds of location/airspace do you find you need access to that is a DJI restricted zone?

 

[sar104]

Get real.
It may be published, but nobody looks into buying a drone to find out what it can't do, and drones are not advertised that way. You remember the goggles advertisement? In that ad, two teenagers are racing through the red canyon rocks as if they are invincible. There was no mention of having to have a spotter, and how could they possibly keep VLOS.
If drones were advertised that way, the disclaimer would be like the medicine adverts that, at the end, in fast speech, warn you your head may fall off it you take this.
I argue that first time buyers have no idea what geofencing is or does, or that it will affect their anticipated enjoyment like a wet blanket.

Sure - if your method of researching a moderately expensive purchase is to watch a promotional video or two and look at advertisements then you won't know about it. Your idea of real is my idea of completely lazy, and I have zero sympathy in that case.

As for the completely different issue of knowing the applicable laws, do car brochures include detail on federal and state traffic law?

 

[AngelAndres]

You have the terminology completely wrong. Unlocking is required in Enhanced Warning Zones (self-unlock, no account details needed), Authorization Zones (self-unlock, verified DJI account needed) and Restricted Zones (custom unlock). There is no such thing as a NFZ in the DJI geo system. There are also altitude restrictions in altitude zones, which are bypassed in the QEP or could be removed by a custom unlock request with FAA authorization evidence.

Anyone who needs details would be much better advised to visit the Fly Safe unlock site.

Excellent update!

What I described (Geo Fence & NFZ) may have been updated to a new nomenclature. Yet, the problem still persists. DJI chooses when you can fly in some sUAS LAANC enabled areas irrespective of our legal authorization to fly.

You can change the name, but the problem is the same.

At the time of one of our DJI-denied operations, we contacted DJI for a custom unlock and were given an expectation of up to 5-days for a custom unlock.

Bottom line. DJI drones are highly inadequate platforms for any operation requiring immediate access to every inch of airspace for which the FAA can provide a LAANC authorization. If you’re like us, a news organization regularly needing immediate access to areas covered by the FAA UAS Facilities map, and are not a “first responder” in DJI’s definition, then you will need another brand of sUAS.

 

[sar104]

Excellent update!

What I described (Geo Fence & NFZ) may have been updated to a new nomenclature. Yet, the problem still persists. DJI chooses when you can fly in some sUAS LAANC enabled areas irrespective of our legal authorization to fly.

You can change the name, but the problem is the same.

At the time of one of our DJI-denied operations, we contacted DJI for a custom unlock and were given an expectation of up to 5-days for a custom unlock.

Bottom line. DJI drones are highly inadequate platforms for any operation requiring immediate access to every inch of airspace for which the FAA can provide a LAANC authorization. If you’re like us, a news organization regularly needing immediate access to areas covered by the FAA UAS Facilities map, and are not a “first responder” in DJI’s definition, then you will need another brand of sUAS.

I'm still curious which airspace that is a DJI restricted zone you might want to access.

 

[ajkm]

May I ask which Mavic model are you using? If it is a Mavic Pro or Platinum, the restrictions can be removed but cant be discussed here.

PM sent...

Pleas stop circumventing the rules - they are there for a reason and flying outside them just make it harder for the rest of us who fly legally.

The mass drone protest scheduled for a major airport in the UK is another example of people with little skin in the game behaving in a way that makes the rest of us look irresponsible.