VLOS rule makes flights boring - do you follow it?

[Crouching Leopard]

I started off with little toy helicopters. They didn’t have gps, or a camera, they didn’t even link to my phone. But they did teach me some valuable lessons; always check the weather and always keep the aircraft within line of sight.

I don’t think flying within line of sight is boring at all. Now that I have the Mavic Mini 1 and Mini 2 , they give me the confidence to fly out a few hundred feet without worrying. But, some of my most memorable, favorite flights were actually very close to my home point.

"Big Aircraft" can and do fly lower than the stated 150m. You need to account for MediVac, Fire Suppression, Search n Rescue, Utility Inspection/Repair/Construction, Law Enforcement, Crop Inspection/Dusting, Scenic Tours, and a host of other very valid reasons for a manned aircraft to routinely be below 150m.

I fly within VLOS to the best of my ability. There are times when I'll temporarily lose VLOS (behind a building etc) and when I do I will attempt to regain VLOS ASAP to stay within the FAA regulations for such.

"Big Aircraft" can and do fly lower than the stated 150m. You need to account for MediVac, Fire Suppression, Search n Rescue, Utility Inspection/Repair/Construction, Law Enforcement, Crop Inspection/Dusting, Scenic Tours, and a host of other very valid reasons for a manned aircraft to routinely be below 150m.

I fly within VLOS to the best of my ability. There are times when I'll temporarily lose VLOS (behind a building etc) and when I do I will attempt to regain VLOS ASAP to stay within the FAA regulations for such.

Flying VLOS is not only about other aircraft, its about knowing what's below and around you in terms of property, people, moving vehicles, local wind etc etc. ie full situational awareness. For example, If a drone decides it needs to come down for some reason, or there is a failure, the priority is that it must not cause harm or damage. Until I did my REPL (Australian equivalent of the part 107 I think) I didn't really fully appreciate the dangers of going beyond VLOS, or what can go wrong at a moments notice. I fly several different drones and losing visual occasionally happens at even short distances. I always make sure of my situational awareness, keep an air radio tuned in to the local advisory frequency (and enjoy listening to the commercial airliner comms) and watch out for other aircraft. I fly almost every day and have a great time. I load everything into my backpack (all 23 Kilos) go for a drive, then take an enjoyable walk out to the location, fly, have a coffee and cake, talk to people about drone flying, and come home. If near water, I will even load my kayak onto the car. When home, I play around with the editing tools on my PC. Fun and exercise at the same time and its never boring.

I have a friend who is both a commercial drone and helicopter pilot. He tells me how frightening it is when he sees drones from his Heli breaking the rules.

I enjoy thrills as much as anyone else, and fly an FPV , but I also enjoy exercise, sleeping at night, not losing my expensive bit of kit or having to explain away someone else being injured or something being damaged.

 

[ExtremeElementz]

When I fly I utilize a VO with a nice pair of binoculars

Question do recreational pilots using a VO different than Part 107 pilots?

Because according to the FAA a VO cannot use ANY device to aid in flowing the drone. So wouldn’t that be “illegal” according to the rule?

 

[slozukimc]

Question do recreational pilots using a VO different than Part 107 pilots?

Because according to the FAA a VO cannot use ANY device to aid in flowing the drone. So wouldn’t that be “illegal” according to the rule?

Yes

 

[Jamesz]

Thr VLOS issue boils down to whether you have empathy for your fellow air users and care about other people's safety, or put two fingers up to the law because you find it stops you doing what you want. A selfish or considerate pilot?

 

[Tim3459575]

I use my drone for photography from a sailboat, mostly while at anchor. Initially I launched and retrieved from the sailboat which tended to make VLOS more challenging. Eventually discovered that launching from dinghy and staying much closer to the drone allowed me to capture much better shots and perspectives. The closer range made for easier VLOS, better photography and less risk of hitting trees or loosing signal behind islands - not to mention staying within the regs. Win win.

 

[Northeast]

"Big Aircraft" can and do fly lower than the stated 150m. You need to account for MediVac, Fire Suppression, Search n Rescue, Utility Inspection/Repair/Construction, Law Enforcement, Crop Inspection/Dusting, Scenic Tours, and a host of other very valid reasons for a manned aircraft to routinely be below 150m.

I fly within VLOS to the best of my ability. There are times when I'll temporarily lose VLOS (behind a building etc) and when I do I will attempt to regain VLOS ASAP to stay within the FAA regulations for such.

Me too. The vote didn’t allow this response. Thanks.

 

[Northeast]

"Big Aircraft" can and do fly lower than the stated 150m. You need to account for MediVac, Fire Suppression, Search n Rescue, Utility Inspection/Repair/Construction, Law Enforcement, Crop Inspection/Dusting, Scenic Tours, and a host of other very valid reasons for a manned aircraft to routinely be below 150m.

I fly within VLOS to the best of my ability. There are times when I'll temporarily lose VLOS (behind a building etc) and when I do I will attempt to regain VLOS ASAP to stay within the FAA regulations for such.

Me too. I try to keep VLOS all the time but I’ve stretched it and lost it in the sun and behind my back. Usually I want to be close within 100 yards. Im afraid I will lose radio control. Im still learning to be familiar with mapping.

 

[Chaosrider]

This is very similar to keeping the speed limits with your car ... nothing will happen if you doesn't get caught or create an incident. But if you do ... they will nail you hard, & no one will listen or recognize that "a lot of others" over speed also.

My relation ship with the VLOS regulation is similar to @BigAl07 ... my intention & ambition is to obey & if I note that it slipped away out of view I correct immediately.

Then you write in the thread title ... "VLOS rule makes flights boring".

Yeah ... when the first thrill & challenge about flying a (photo platform) -drone have settled it seems that going out to far distances is the only thing to do in order to get that thrill. And if the flying itself, is what you want the thrill from ... then a photo drone isn't the right tool. They are slow, less maneuverable, hate trees & don't give you any sense of speed in the air ... they are great flying cameras, giving you completely different perspectives for videoing & photography, so if the capturing doesn't alone give you "the thrill" you need to acquire additional tools.

A fully fledged acro quad flown together with friends will give you tons of thrill & bucket loads of challenges ... ridiculously high speeds (my fastest reach 180km/h), an area big as a football field is usually enough for several hours of flying, & all kinds of obstacles is welcomed and nearly mandatory... and the needed heights rarely reach higher than 50m.

If I'm out to capture something with my photo drone I usually try to get really close to it before I launch... not trying to reach it from a far distance.

In the US generally, outside of urban areas and speed traps, speed limits are mostly suggestions. I'll be driving a long, straight stretch of highway for about 15 miles this afternoon. The posted speed limit is 65 mph. I set the cruise control at 70, and at that slow speed I for darn sure have to stay in the right lane, or I'll be a serious hazard to navigation!

Philosophically, any "law" that isn't reliably enforced, is really just a suggestion.

Still, I don't speed excessively, and I don't fly BVLOS excessively. My concerns are about safety rather than regulations per se, in both cases.

I do not, however, practice AVLOS...

;-)

What the Feds really mean about VLOS is still evolving. As with many laws and regulations, particularly new laws and regulations such as we have in Droneland, the effective law is determined far more by enforcement and case law, than it is by the straight text.

I have seen no evidence in these discussions that the Feds enforce AVLOS at all, and well they should not. It seems, based on what I've read here and elsewhere, that they are focusing on egregious BVLOS operations, which is right and proper.

I think RID is going to lead to generally available BVLOS, as it should, but obviously not next month.

Thx,

TCS

 

[slup]

...Philosophically, any "law" that isn't reliably enforced, is really just a suggestion.

Well... you can twist it how ever you want, but all laws & regulations is just that & will not be turned into suggestions just because no one sees you, nothing happens or if no authority doesn't enforce you in every moment. What you're talking about is a "eye servant " behavior (I think it's called in English).

Think it's really easy to test off you philosophy if you want to see if a law actually is a law or just a suggestion ... just cause an incident & get caught, i'm sure the authorities will read the "book" as it's written.

 

[eEridani]

What the Feds really mean about VLOS is still evolving.

I'd sure like to see a written example of this VLOS evolution. Language can always be made more precise, and legalese often does change to do that. But generally, the intent stays the same.

Here's an interesting FAA graphic. It talks about emergency TBVLOS flights. Take a close look at the 400' and 1500' statements.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/public_safety_gov/public_safety_toolkit/media/TBVLOS_Waiver_Final.pdf

ps: and surfing for examples found this ...

How Far Can I Legally Fly My Drone and Maintain VLOS? - Ask Steve - Public Safety Flight

Here is a question I get on a regular basis. Question: How far can we fly our drone at the incident scenes and how far beyond the line of sight can we go? Answer: You would think there would be a simple answer to this question. There actually is but the facts get clouded with ... Read more

psflight.org

 

[snowghost]

In the US generally, outside of urban areas and speed traps, speed limits are mostly suggestions. I'll be driving a long, straight stretch of highway for about 15 miles this afternoon. The posted speed limit is 65 mph. I set the cruise control at 70, and at that slow speed I for darn sure have to stay in the right lane, or I'll be a serious hazard to navigation!

Philosophically, any "law" that isn't reliably enforced, is really just a suggestion.

Still, I don't speed excessively, and I don't fly BVLOS excessively. My concerns are about safety rather than regulations per se, in both cases.

I do not, however, practice AVLOS...

;-)

What the Feds really mean about VLOS is still evolving. As with many laws and regulations, particularly new laws and regulations such as we have in Droneland, the effective law is determined far more by enforcement and case law, than it is by the straight text.

I have seen no evidence in these discussions that the Feds enforce AVLOS at all, and well they should not. It seems, based on what I've read here and elsewhere, that they are focusing on egregious BVLOS operations, which is right and proper.

I think RID is going to lead to generally available BVLOS, as it should, but obviously not next month.

Thx,

TCS

Just a suggestion eh? Tell that to the LEO who arrested two members of the AZ BMW Club for felony speeding on a group drive. Luckily they had passengers so the cars were not impounded.

 

[slozukimc]

In the US generally, outside of urban areas and speed traps, speed limits are mostly suggestions. I'll be driving a long, straight stretch of highway for about 15 miles this afternoon. The posted speed limit is 65 mph. I set the cruise control at 70, and at that slow speed I for darn sure have to stay in the right lane, or I'll be a serious hazard to navigation!

Philosophically, any "law" that isn't reliably enforced, is really just a suggestion.

Still, I don't speed excessively, and I don't fly BVLOS excessively. My concerns are about safety rather than regulations per se, in both cases.

I do not, however, practice AVLOS...

;-)

What the Feds really mean about VLOS is still evolving. As with many laws and regulations, particularly new laws and regulations such as we have in Droneland, the effective law is determined far more by enforcement and case law, than it is by the straight text.

I have seen no evidence in these discussions that the Feds enforce AVLOS at all, and well they should not. It seems, based on what I've read here and elsewhere, that they are focusing on egregious BVLOS operations, which is right and proper.

I think RID is going to lead to generally available BVLOS, as it should, but obviously not next month.

Thx,

TCS

I am reading this and just can’t get a grasp on what you think. Just because you speed out in the sticks and don’t get caught certainly does not mean the law isn’t being broken.

Laws in the US don’t just magically disappear just because there isn’t a cop there to see you break the law.

Not likely to find any LEO with that sort of philosophical outlook.

Mike

 

[Osmosis]

You do realize you are busting the regs by utilizing Bincos right?



While I still do enjoy my R/C helis (I actually have a new micro RC Heli I just got a few weeks ago) I still find flying R/C Planks my most enjoyable "R/C" experience. I love trying to fly as smoothly as possible and when I "grease in" those touch-n-goes I can't help but grin like I did many years ago (1974) learning to fly. I've got a 60 size Cherokee that is so much fun to "grease it in". And for excitement I have an SBACH 540 that is a RUSH to fly and test my flying skills LOL!

3D heli is still fun but to be honest I'm a level 1 on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being Mac Daddy LOL! My mind doesn't "click" quick enough to not "ReKit" if I'm not very careful LOL!

What in the heck is a "I am a commercially rated full scale pilot" Something fishy here - especially that youre studying to take the test as all FAA Private and Commercial pilots only need to take the online quiz...

 

[New England Droning]

Well now that you mention it. lolllllll

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did you go just little bit BVlos? great imagination though and it was nice adding the robot voice... I might have gone with a Oh No Mr. Bill...

 

[SethB]

…I have seen no evidence in these discussions that the Feds enforce AVLOS at all, and well they should not…

Did I miss something? What’s “AVLOS”?

May I say that a philosophy of “if a cop isn’t watching the law is as flexible as I say it is” is pretty troubling. I don’t think going 70 in a 65 zone equates to extended flying beyond VLOS (BVLOS). The clear difference is that in BVLOS flight you don’t know everything that’s around your aircraft.

A clearer parallel would be “It seems safe, so I’m going to close my eyes while driving 65mph”.

 

[snowghost]

Did I miss something? What’s “AVLOS”?

May I say that a philosophy of “if a cop isn’t watching the law is as flexible as I say it is” is pretty troubling. I don’t think going 70 in a 65 zone equates to extended flying beyond VLOS (BVLOS). The clear difference is that in BVLOS flight you don’t know everything that’s around your aircraft.

A clearer parallel would be “It seems safe, so I’m going to close my eyes while driving 65mph”.

A few years back there was a car pulled over for erratic driving. Turned out the owner was drunk and got a blind friend to drive and was giving him directions. LOL

 

[Super Dave O]

Hello, I have been flying drones for 1 year now and with my first drone VLOS wasn't a problem, the drone itself was big, bigger than a phantom 4 pro, and the range was limited (about 1 km max at 120 m / 400 ft) and you could see it from very far away.
6 months ago I got myself a mavic air 2, this thing is tiny compared to my older drone and it is only visible until about 400 meters distance.
Almost all of the flights with my Mavic Air 2 have been BVLOS because it's impossible to maintain VLOS.

My first question is: if almost all big aircraft cannot fly lower than 150 meters / 500 feet in Class G Airspace then why bother with VLOS? Especially in my situation when I'm 50 km away from airports and heliports.

Second question is: How many people in the drone community actually follow the rule? Vote in the poll!

I’m gonna guess the top 76 people should be in the most of the time group

 

[BigAl07]

What in the heck is a "I am a commercially rated full scale pilot" Something fishy here - especially that youre studying to take the test as all FAA Private and Commercial pilots only need to take the online quiz...

@Osmosis I'm pretty sure you've misquoted me in your post there. I'm not studying for Part 107 or anything else and I'm well aware of what it takes to remain current with the FAA. I'm an FAA Safety Team Drone Pro and FAA Safety Team Representative. I eat, sleep, and breathe UAS operations/regulations and I teach it. Maybe you just chose the wrong post to QUOTE?

 

[Dougcjohn]

Drive a sports car like a Corvette at 65 mph is boring as well but we can't break the law. I mean, you can but you will pay consequences. Same with the drones. Will be fun to drive faster than that but.... It is what it is. Unless FAA changes the rules we need to stick with it.

Every day I find ways to keep this hobby entertained, like discovering new apps, drone links, litchi, Maven, etc.. and do different things with drone-like mapping, 3D modeling, and YouTube videos. Also, Time-Laps is very interesting. Another thing I do is teach kids and adults how to fly for free. I put advertisements offering my free service.

I try to stick to the rules the best I can and encourage everybody to do the same.

Also, the 3D helicopters are amazing. Check this video I created with my buddy flying in West Palm Beach together few years ago.

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Is this the FW450 Heli? The hands off & handsoff inverted is normally a FW450. Been looking at one… finally ordered.

Have multiple hell’s from mini, up to 450 series. Such a huge change since my nitro hell’s of 1980’s. The battery is awesome and the FW450 make heli flying very enjoyable!

 

[Arkarian]

Hello, I have been flying drones for 1 year now and with my first drone VLOS wasn't a problem, the drone itself was big, bigger than a phantom 4 pro, and the range was limited (about 1 km max at 120 m / 400 ft) and you could see it from very far away.
6 months ago I got myself a mavic air 2, this thing is tiny compared to my older drone and it is only visible until about 400 meters distance.
Almost all of the flights with my Mavic Air 2 have been BVLOS because it's impossible to maintain VLOS.

My first question is: if almost all big aircraft cannot fly lower than 150 meters / 500 feet in Class G Airspace then why bother with VLOS? Especially in my situation when I'm 50 km away from airports and heliports.

Second question is: How many people in the drone community actually follow the rule? Vote in the poll!

Get some strobe lights to put on it. You can see it farther.
Be aware of low flying helicopters. We have air care and county sheriffs coming over the horizon low all the time.